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One group, Sunni Arabs, which has built up a substantial military force with external assistance and which claims to be addressing long years of subjugation, crosses over the Iraqi-Syrian border, occupies towns and cities and unilaterally, with no basis in law, declares a new state, and this is met with almost universal derision.

While another group, Iraqi Kurds, which has built up a substantial military force with external assistance and which claims to be addressing long years of subjugation, crosses over the KRoI's border, occupies towns and cities and announces its intentions to unilaterally, with no basis in law, declare a new state, and many say "Hmmm, could be, why not?".

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As to those who like to claim "No one ever asked the Iraqi Kurds if they wanted to be a part of Iraq. The Kurds are always forced to be in Iraq."

In the 2005 referendum on the Iraqi constitution, the constitution which describes Iraq as a united country with the Kurdistan Region of Iraq (KRoI) a part of this united Iraq, voters in the Duhok, Erbil, and Sulaymaniyah Governorates, which make up almost all of the KRoI, voted 99% for the constitution.    

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Some Turkish Kurdish and Syrian Kurdish leaders have begun to state their opposition to the current push for independence by some in the KRoI saying that if the KRoI declares independence in the near future some countries in the region and the world will use its existence as justification for disregarding Turkish Kurdish and Syrian Kurdish efforts to improve their political status. Other countries, they believe, will say "Look, there is a (tiny) Kurdistan over there. What more do you want?".

Many Turkish and Syrian Kurds also believe that were the KRoI to declare independence the unwelcome efforts of some in the KRoI's leadership to impose their leadership and their political and economic positions on Turkish and Syrian Kurds would only increase.

There has long been hostility between some of the factions in power in the KRoI and Turkish and Syrian Kurds.

One of the main reasons is that these factions in the KRoI are conservative and rightist, the KRoI has become essentially a free market paradise for foreign companies and is very proud of it too, while Turkish and Syrian Kurds are leftist.

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I wrote much more about the KRoI and independence here:

Iraqi Kurdistan: Will it go for independence? Part III

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (21+ / 0-)

    The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
    Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

    by InAntalya on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 11:37:19 AM PDT

  •  Supported by Israel? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya, Notreadytobenice, Lepanto

    http://www.tabletmag.com/...

    What about Iranian Kurds? Less autonomous?

    Also, you contrasted Kurds to "Sunni Arabs". Kurds are also mostly Sunni. Just not Arabs?

    Confusing, but I'm trying to follow....

    •  The Israeli PM and FM have stated their (3+ / 0-)

      positions on KRoI independence.

      My knowledge of Iranian Kurds is more limited so I don't write much about them. When I have more information I will.

      Yes, Kurds and Arabs are different and Iraqi Kurds are mostly Sunni, so there are Sunni Arabs and Sunni Kurds.

      It is confusing but with time it gets clearer.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 12:41:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The situation of Kurds today seems identical to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya, Notreadytobenice

    the situation of the Jews prior to 1948 when they declared independence and created Israel.

    If Iraq is falling apart, I fully support the Kurds' right to self-determination.

    •  In your version of history how does (5+ / 0-)
      The situation of Kurds today seem identical to the situation of the Jews prior to 1948
      ?

      I suppose you also support the Confederate States' secession.

      Do you fully support the Palestinians' right to self-determination?

      Do you also support the method the Iraqi Kurds support to resolve the status of the disputed territories in Iraq?

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:43:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Funny (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        InAntalya, Notreadytobenice

        No, I don't support the Confederate States' secession, but I absolutely support Palestinian self-determination on a "two states for two peoples" basis assuming a true "land for peace" trade -- i.e., the Palestinians agree to a peace agreement with reasonable security protection for Israel that maintains a Jewish homeland for Israel and ends the conflict forever.

        I'm probably not following the Kurds closely enough to understand how to answer your last question.

        •  So you don't support the Palestinians' right to (0+ / 0-)

          self-determination.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:01:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  how can iraqi citoyens support a constitution... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        InAntalya, Johnny Q, blueoasis

        written by american oligarchs and mercenaries?

        ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

        by Notreadytobenice on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:10:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They can, and did, because it was written mostly (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Notreadytobenice

          for them.

          And when it became clear that the draft constitution might be rejected in the referendum due to Sunni Arab objections they inisted that the rules be changed.

          Original rule:

          If two-thirds of the voters in three of the 18 governorates reject the draft constitution the draft is rejected.

          Changed rule:

          If two-thirds of the registered voters in three of the 18 governorates reject the draft constitution the draft is rejected.

          The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
          Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

          by InAntalya on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:19:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  No Unilateral Declaration (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      InAntalya, Notreadytobenice

      When the KRoI places a bill before the Iraqi Parliament for secession and gets it approved, then their independence can be supported.  It's that "unilateral" declaration wherein they determine just what regions and resources they're going to snatch away.  That's just like the states in the old Confederacy, who decided that all of the Federal government assets in their states were suddenly state or Confederate property, without so much as a request to take them.  Sorry, theft is theft and the central government has every right to try to recover the assets and resources for the nation, even if it means applying force.  When the KRoI sits and negotiates the departure agreeement with Baghdad, as the Czechs and Slovaks did in their "Velvet Divorce," then we can speak about an independent Kurdistan.

      "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

      by PrahaPartizan on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:04:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One other point. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, PrahaPartizan

        The KRoI insists that none of Iraq's foreign debt before 2003 can be charged to them.

        The Kurdish MPs in the Iraqi Parliament always object very strongly during budget negotiations when the Iraqi government wants to 'share out' payments made on these debts by deducting money from the allotments made to the KRoI and the other governorates.

        The Kurdish MPs insist that no money be deducted from their allotment for these payments and that the burden be borne completely by the other governorates.

        The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
        Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

        by InAntalya on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:25:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Apologies: off topic but serious question (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InAntalya

    It would appear that the ISIS/ISIL/IS successes have in part been a result of radicalized muslims from other countries joining in the fighting, including from here in the UK.

    I have put up a diary about the prospects of a new Intifada in the OPTs and made passing reference to IS. If one does break out, do you think the overseas fighters, or fighters from IS themselves, would seek to join in?

    "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:00:43 PM PDT

    •  No, I think that it is impossible. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, Lib Dem FoP

      They live in their own reality and it seems that nothing outside it exists for them.

      I remember, but am not completely sure, that the Palestinians are not considerd to be 'true (good enough) Muslims' by the ISIS because they don't accept the ISIS as their leaders.

      The world is bad enough as it is, you have no right to make it any worse.
      Lamb chop, we can quibble what to call it, but I think we can both agree it's creepy.

      by InAntalya on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:32:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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