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I've read several recent opuses (opi?) about the Kansas economy going down the sewer pipe.

All of them were written by people and/or were full of quotes from people who may know a lot more about economics than I do.

But I don't have to know a thing about economic theory to know that a lot of what's been written and said about economics over the past 30 or 40 years amounts to a gigantic thunderclap of flatus.

Let me point out a few things that are not theories, but rather explain a good bit about real-life economics.

But first, full disclosure: I spent a large part of my adulthood in Kansas. Back then, at least, the bad press Kansas often endured was completely unjustified and must have been written by cranky people whose feet hurt from walking up and down hills in wrinkly states like Vermont or Colorado.

The fact is, Wichita was the most enjoyable of many cities in which I've lived. If the people and the nightlife were unsophisticated, they sure fooled me.

Granted, that was all BBDWOTG -- Before Brownback Declared War on the Greenback.

Since nearly everybody agrees that Gov. Sam Brownback and his impossible economic theories are what put Kansas down the hopper, I don't feel any need to point that out.

In fact, this past week, 100 Kansas Republicans pointed it out for me by stating publicly in an ad that even Brownback's Democratic opponent would be preferable next time.

Here are some things that Brownback and countless other fright-wingers either don't know or pretend they don't know:

1) A dollar doesn't know who tossed it on the table.

We've been told for 30 years that a dollar circulating around the community from government spending isn't really equal to a dollar from a private source.

Once, as a city editor attending a New Mexico Governor's Economic Development Conference, I was seated next to a former reporter who had become the economic development director of a medium-sized town.

Some bureaucrat was telling us about a project under way in a small town -- something that would bring more new jobs to that town than that it had seen in decades. The twit ex-reporter next to me snorted, "Government spending is NOT economic development."

She really believed that jobs spawned by the government were not actual, equal jobs -- and she was being paid for economic development. Not that she had a clue how it worked.

A modern equivalent to this idea would be Todd Akin's Theory That Ladyparts Know Rape Sperm from Love Sperm.

2) When you deliberately shrink an economy, the only thing you get is a shrunken economy.

I understand: You're going to remind me that every Republican you know tells you that shrinking government spending is on the verge of sending the economy into orbit.

Let's see. Government spending almost always involves jobs -- somebody doing the work. Cutting jobs means people who did have money to spend no longer will have money to spend, and in fact are likely to end up living on unemployment for awhile.

When did deliberately cutting the number of jobs ever send an economy soaring? Does it not occur to you that if Mitt Romney or Paul Ryan knew of a single, solitary case where this ever worked, we'd have heard about it daily for months last year?

The modern equivalent of this idea is commonly known as John McCain's Theory That If We Just Keep Invading Iraq, Eventually the Result Will Be Different.

3) "Trickle down" may happen regularly with your new baby, but it doesn't happen in economics.

In what galaxy were people living? They let themselves be duped into the idea of "trickle-down" economics when throughout recorded history economics had always been a "trickle-up" kind of guy.

Trickle-down economics -- what a hod of twaddle from the get-go!

Surely even the Republicans most determined to avoid reality have noticed by now that after a few decades of "trickle-down," so much has "trickled up" to the top .001 percent that there isn't much of a puddle left at the bottom for them to suck up.

The modern equivalent of this one has to be Kim Kardashian's Theory That Keeping My Butt in People's Faces Will Someday Convince Them It's Art.

In other words, like Kim's fanny fixation, trickle-down economics was never meant to be more than a fantasy of the people pushing it. By now, both Kim and the fat cats have grown rich(er) from their fantasies without doing anybody else any good.

As I said at the beginning, I don't need to know a thing about economics in order to understand who and what sabotaged Kansas.

Judging from the polls, most Kansas voters finally figured it out as well. Too bad it'll take them decades to recover from Badass Sam Brownback.

Originally posted to wolfbane in AZ on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 05:46 PM PDT.

Also republished by Kansas & Missouri Kossacks.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (258+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    claude, Alumbrados, scribeboy, Chi, hannah, MadRuth, Trendar, kd4dean, Gooserock, emal, greenbird, Emerson, tacet, Byron from Denver, xynz, devtob, NCJim, TracieLynn, afox, sfgb, jiffykeen, MisterOpus1, mollyd, PeteZerria, wader, pat7724, Getreal1246, psnyder, annan, pat bunny, cosette, Sychotic1, riverlover, zerelda, eztempo, sawgrass727, Gowrie Gal, rapala, salmo, NoMoreLies, LakeSuperior, democracy inaction, basquebob, ChemBob, YucatanMan, Navy Vet Terp, owlbear1, where4art, Sandino, Tunk, FindingMyVoice, sodalis, Rogneid, zozie, Jim P, buddabelly, cybersaur, smokeymonkey, poleshifter, Gottlieb, blueoasis, NBBooks, katrinka, Preston S, ER Doc, Turbonerd, BlueMississippi, rage, kurt, LillithMc, middleagedhousewife, Lujane, Pescadero Bill, doingbusinessas, Just Saying, tofumagoo, bythesea, T C Gibian, bleeding blue, US Blues, elwior, eru, northsylvania, dewtx, MJ via Chicago, notrouble, BadKitties, Brian82, ModerateJosh, Dirtandiron, cpresley, I am a Patriot, snazzzybird, deeproots, figbash, bnasley, opinionated, jck, Polly Syllabic, gtghawaii, NoMoJoe, gettingtherefromhere, splashy, New Rule, MinistryOfTruth, dobleremolque, chimene, Kanscott, RudiB, realalaskan, Aaa T Tudeattack, cwsmoke, dle2GA, dadadata, Calamity Jean, science nerd, melo, SherrieLudwig, SilentBrook, aratinga, cpr4life, Angie in WA State, carrps, amoverton, Ty2083, prsphnssister, groupw, dewolf99, Lilredhead, debocracy, JuliathePoet, Deeliberate, seefleur, ps2os2, Nodin, North Central, dalef77, chinshihtang, CookieThumper, kirnerpilstime, DareISay, bobcat41702, Quabbin, raspberryberet, pb3131, BLUE Skies in Red Hell, armadillo, CWinebrinner, theskepticarena, CelticOm, Katannah, Mtogreg, PsychoSavannah
  •  commodity fetishism indeed (38+ / 0-)
    The modern equivalent of this one has to be Kim Kardashian's Theory That Keeping My Butt in People's Faces Will Someday Convince Them It's Art.

    In other words, like Kim's fanny fixation, trickle-down economics was never meant to be more than a fantasy of the people pushing it. By now, both Kim and the fat cats have grown rich(er) from their fantasies without doing anybody else any good.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 05:56:35 PM PDT

    •  Another way of saying (10+ / 0-)

      "form over function" or taking the measurement for the thing.

      I suspect it's because some people perceive neither functions or things. Like Plato, they mistake the ideal for the real, the idea for the thing.
      It seems a rather common perception problem. ExxonMobile is convinced that "all it takes is the idea."

      "In the beginning was the word," suggests that the world came into existence when someone (God) had the idea and said the word. That is, the world started when humans became aware of it.

      It's strange that people who derided humanism see humans as the center of existence, the beginning and the end. Of course, if the world ends when a person dies, there's nothing else to worry about, is there?

    •  Kim has the money to perpetuate her theories (13+ / 0-)

      The analogy holds: Kim K. has enough money to broadcast her theories about her but to the rest of the world from now untll eternity.

      Similarly, even though we all know "trickle-down economics" does NOT result in prosperity for all, but instead only makes a very few people rich by taking money from lots of other people, the theory still gets lots of promotion and airplay.  That is because the very few people who get rich from trickle-down economics have enough money get law-makers, pundits, and TV personalities to say that trickle-down economics is great and will make everyone rich.

      Of course, money and gerrymandering ensure that no law-maker ever loses a seat for saying that trickle-down economics works great.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 05:40:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It always (9+ / 0-)

      takes decades to recover from the economic mess that Republicans create.

      If someone tells you that you are putting too much peanut butter on your bread, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

      by Cats r Flyfishn on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 03:38:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But they keep on making more messes! We can't fix (7+ / 0-)

        fast enough. Every time they get control, they sell off as much government property and government work to their buddies as fast as they can. Witness the military's conversion into a mere feeder of the Halliburton maw, for one example. In the middle of summer, now, privatizers are shutting off water to thousands of families in Detroit in order to make the water company's books look better for the new private buyer. In the 70s, it was the oil crisis. Yes, the West caused that; European and US oil interests are responsible. In the 80s it was the orgy of theft that followed deregulation of the savings and loan industry. We did that to ourselves. The horrors of Enron and Worldcom and the like in the 90s. I could go on. HOW do they keep getting power and holding it?

        •  By stealing it, of course. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CWinebrinner

          The current GOP concept of economic prosperity is the largest Ponzi scheme ever devised.

          "Hey keep flowing the money to the top and everyone benefits!" except the people who are underneath, they don't get anything, THEIR sweat, tears, and dollars all go up to keep the illusion of wealth alive for the top tier.

          Until, like all Ponzi schemes, there are no more lower tiers left to screw over.

          The Rich and Spoiled 1%'ers are making the Biker Gang 1%'ers look a lot better than they used to.

          by dcnblues on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 12:25:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Currency is nothing but a certified IOU. (7+ / 0-)

      Certified IOUs are more likely to be honored than handshakes, but until they are honored, they are worthless. Being nothing but promises made by humans, IOUs are theoretically infinite. That the certificates are limited is a consequence of the fact that the issuers of U.S. certificates, the Congress, is keen to ration the IOUs in the mistaken belief that, if there aren't enough IOUs people will either stop making promises or stop trying to collect on them. That is, there's a hope on Capitol Hill that, if there aren't enough IOUs to go around, people will work for nothing and do what the folks on Capitol Hill tell them.
      Free labor. That's been a persistent desideratum in the U.S. It's what tyrants are after everywhere.

    •  stuffing money (6+ / 0-)

      into their overseas mattress effectively removes it from the economy.

      Whereas money put in American banks is loaned out.. however

      Rich folks have lots of ways of removing juice from the economy...

      besides their Caymen Islands and Swiss mattress struffing

      for example as ceos buying up their own stock, instead expanding their businesses

      Whereas money to the middle and working class is always recycled into growth

      support Thomas Lofgren, progressive candidate for Minnesota house of reps district 20A http://thomaslofgren.us/

      by mollyd on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:45:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry but this is wrong: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lujane

        "Whereas money put in American banks is loaned out.. "

        Thats not how modern banking works, banks don't lend out people's deposits. Has your account ever been debited because your bank made a loan? Of course not, when banks make loans, brand new dollars are created, they don't lend other people's money, they create bank money.

        Descriptions of this process, called endogenous money, can be found in many places, but here is just a couple:

        From the Bank of England:
        Short videos:
        https://www.youtube.com/...
        https://www.youtube.com/...

        The academic paper, that the videos were made from (PDF):
        http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/...

        Here's the ECB describing the same thing (PDF pgs. 22 & 23):
        http://www.ecb.europa.eu/...

        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

        by Auburn Parks on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:21:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  However the amount the bank can lend depends (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mollyd

          upon the total size of its deposits, other bank debt and shareholders.

          The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

          by nextstep on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 10:50:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry but no, the limiting factor to bank lending (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DocGonzo

            is the legal capital requirement ratios.

            Deposits are liabilities of banks, (they owe you the money in your account), deposits are not assets or capital.

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:25:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Regulatory bank ratios are driven by the factors I (0+ / 0-)

              had in my comment above.  

              Bank Capital available for lending is not limited to shareholder equity, bank debt and deposits also play a part deposits are part of bank capital.  If deposits were not part of bank capital the bank would not want deposits.

              Consider a bank with $1 billion in shareholder equity and no deposits and no bank debt or other short term debt.  The bank will not be able to lend more than $1 billion - as total assets must equal total liabilities.

              However a bank with $1 billion of equity and $9 billion of CD deposits will be able to lend far more than $1 billion.  The amount more than $1 billion is based upon regulations on how much it may lend against the CD deposits.

              Look at the balance sheet a a bank such as US Bank (used as an example as it does not do brokerage and proprietary trading)

              See http://finance.yahoo.com/...

              In Dec 2013 it had shareholder equity of $41 billion, and $262 in deposits, while it had $341 billion in long term.lending.

              The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

              by nextstep on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 07:16:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Deposits are on the liability side of the Balance (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DocGonzo

                sheet. Just like your link shows and just like I said.

                Care to edit your comment yet?

                "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

                by Auburn Parks on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 05:49:55 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Shareholder Equity is also a Liability. (0+ / 0-)

                  What the bank owns (assets which includes what they lend to customers)  is financed by all the liabilities which includes shareholder equity, deposit accounts in the bank and bonds the bank issues.

                  While in common language liability implies something bad, in accounting its meaning does not imply something bad, it is half of the balance sheet.  

                  In the above example of US Bank, the bank would not be able to support its level of lending without bank deposits for its level of shareholder equity and issued bonds.

                  The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

                  by nextstep on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 09:39:38 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Ok, but I'm not sure what your point is. Banks (0+ / 0-)

                    don't lend out deposits, thats not how it works. Which I believe was the original point that I made.

                    "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

                    by Auburn Parks on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 03:16:25 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You have it wrong. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      CWinebrinner

                      Banks don't lend out deposits only in the sense that one will not see on their statement entries like, "Joe's Pizza loan for $10,000", where the bank made a loan.

                      Deposits are part of bank capital. That is why a bank would get into great trouble, and could even fail, if there was a "run on the bank" in which depositors withdraw their deposits at a frantic rate.  If there was no link between deposits and bank investing (most typically lending) in illiquid investments, why would a bank run cause a problem?

                      If a bank was not able to invest the proceeds of deposits to some extent (based upon regulation), why would a bank provide various free services (free large safe deposit box, high volume of checking, ATMs, ACH, bill pay, etc) and interest on a $100,000 account?

                      The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

                      by nextstep on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 03:41:45 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Deposits are bank liabilities not capital. (0+ / 0-)

                        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

                        by Auburn Parks on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 04:00:24 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh and bank lending is not "investing". (0+ / 0-)

                        Banks can't spend their customer's deposits. No other bank wants Chase bank deposits, other banks want Govt money or reserves from Chase's checking account at the Fed. Reserves are part of a bank's capital, their customer's deposits are the bank's liabilities. banks can only buy things with their reserves or assets (Govt money) not with their liabilities.

                        And the reason banks offer interest and the other things you listed is because, by attracting other bank's customer deposits, they also get the reserves from the bank the new customer is coming from. And its cheaper to attract other banks' customers and thus their reserves than it is to borrow reserves in the interbank or federal funds market.

                        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

                        by Auburn Parks on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 04:05:45 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DocGonzo

                "Consider a bank with $1 billion in shareholder equity and no deposits and no bank debt or other short term debt.  The bank will not be able to lend more than $1 billion - as total assets must equal total liabilities."

                This line isn't right either. Bank loans create asset liability pairs. When a bank makes a loan of $1000:

                Bank liabilities increase $1000 (your deposit)
                Bank Assets increase $1000 (Your loan contract is a bank asset)

                Then the bank has two weeks to meet the legal reserve requirement.

                "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

                by Auburn Parks on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 05:55:08 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Lobbyists Drive the Ratios (0+ / 0-)

                No, the leverage ratios stipulated by the regulations are determined by a political process. They vary with the political power of the banks and their lobbyists. They also vary among different banks at the same time.

                All of this is a different structure than lending from actual deposits. The relationship between deposits and loans is notional, not deterministic.

                "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                by DocGonzo on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 01:31:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Bromback/Republican -- GOP -- elephant party: (0+ / 0-)

      "May the bird of paradise fly up your nose;
      may an elephant caress you with its toes"

    •  And the rich are jobs creators. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AR2

      I wonder how many jobs Mitt has personally created in the last 5 years?

  •  Why trickle down is a failure (91+ / 0-)

    Give $1,000 to someone earning $1 million a year and likely this millionaire will not be spending it.  Give $1,000 to someone earning $10,000 a year and every penny will be spent.  The former puts money down a sinkhole, the latter puts money into the economy.

    "Corporations exist not for themselves, but for the people." Ida Tarbell 1908.

    by Navy Vet Terp on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 05:59:53 PM PDT

    •  Yes, BUT.... (32+ / 0-)

      ...the $10,000 a year peon will spend money on things like food, shelter and clothing. This creates an increased demand for these items and it drives up their price. This is BAD inflation.

      Whereas the $1 million a year job creator will spend the money on shares of Apple Computer. This creates an increased demand for shares of Apple Computer and it drives up the share price. This is GOOD inflation.

      So, the inflation caused by the working class is always BAD, while the inflation caused by the investing class is always GOOD.

      That is why the taxes levied on wages is much, much higher than the taxes levied on dividends and capital gains. Labor must be punished, while investing is to rewarded.

      In the Fox News Christian Nation, public schools won't teach sex education and evolution; instead they'll have an NRA sponsored Shots for Tots: Gunz in Schoolz program.

      by xynz on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 08:26:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Inflation only occurs when there is limited supply (20+ / 0-)

        The claim that any spending will create inflation is wrong.

        Spending increases demand. Supply is a critical part of the equation. Oftentimes, supply can increase to meet demand without any inflation at all.

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 08:59:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is limited supply (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hungeski, Rogneid, elwior, notrouble, Roger Fox

          of good investments, that why we had the bubbles.  There were not good investments to make so the cost of investments went up/  The good investments to make, sufficient R.O.I., are public infrastructure.  

          •  Limited Supply of Info (0+ / 0-)

            While the supply of good investments might be limited, it's not as limited as it's been during the bubbles. The bubbles are mostly the result of investment opportunities constrained by the ability of investors to find them. That constraint is produced by the limited bandwidth of the information system between the investment market and the investors. The likes of CNBC deliberately drive herds towards a few choices to create bubbles: "see, I told you this stock would go up, now listen to my next recommendation, but first that raise for my good advice".

            The investment supply is also limited, though in bubbles larger than the reached demand. But one reason it's larger is because what used to get invested in safer, more physical investments. Like deposits in an S&L with a very low allowed leverage ratio, or directly in rental properties in the neighborhood for maintaining directly. Instead it gets invested via a 401k or other IRA into a highly leveraged bank, which invests in purely financial instruments, even if some derivatives eventually derive from a limited risk physical asset like a mortgaged home. Again the info impedance through the many layers of finance between the investor and the non-derivative property constrains the allowed targets for the increased supply.

            It's all centrally planned by the banks and their dependent financial consultant, analyst, advisor and news industries. And so it crashed hard - but to the benefit of the bankers' contingency plans.

            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

            by DocGonzo on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 02:06:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yes. That's why the stock market is so high... (0+ / 0-)

            There's nowhere else to put all that fake money. Savings pay just over 0% and real estate is too risky (unless you have insider information.) It's all fake. It's all a fairy tale. That's why we must "believe" in capitalism. Why, you ask? Because it just doesn't hold up upon examination as a good healthy economic system for a finite planet.  

    •  That is much too complicated (17+ / 0-)

      to be understood by Robert Samuelson, David Brooks and the Editors of the Wall St. Journal.

      Steve Gilliard Lives.

      by Bethesda 1971 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 09:29:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ESPECIALLY if they can give it to themselves (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, organicus

         Lower tax rates on corporations makes companies more likely to hoard those profits, and lower capital gains tax rates makes using the extra money to have executives buy back stock a better idea than investing it in their companies and paying higher wages.

         It's really not hard to figure out, except for those in DC bubble world, I suppose.

      •  Welcome Jake formerly of the LP (0+ / 0-)

        I was a Republican until I was 22. Watergate. Then I became an LPer. When I was 28, I decided THAT was a bunch of hooey too. Now I am a socialist libertarian instead of a capitalist libertarian.

    •  Cutting jobs often boosts profits for the CEO and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior

      Other top people.  This may be partly what they are thinking of.  But of course as pointed out, it deprives the laid off of spending money, which depresses the economy as a whole.

      I have no idea whether the .1% is deluded or really doesn't believe trickle down but thinks the rubes will buy it for long enough for them to get really rich.  But I do think that they don't think in terms of the whole, of the effect of their actions on the whole economic system.  They only think of themselves, maybe their business (as a possession, not an enterprise employing people), but certainly not he whole.

      Individual obligation vs mutual obligation.  That is the great divide, and too many of the wealthy are on the wrong side of that divide.

      Don't bet your future on 97% of climate scientists being wrong. Take action on climate now!

      by Mimikatz on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 09:25:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Where It's Spent (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dcnblues

      Actually the millionaire will probably spend it all. They already have the maximum savings they can justify. The millionaire will spend it on investments, likely foreign ones (with higher growth rates, even if higher risks) - because they also already spent the maximum on their necessities, and even most of their luxuries. if they spend it on consumption rather than investment it will likely be foreign, or at least more distant in its return through the economy than if spent on a cheeseburger in the county where they sleep most nights.

      The "tenthousandaire" will probably spend it all on their neighbors, just to survive. Those neighbors are probably also tenthousandaires, who do likewise. This cycle is one reason why American poor neighborhoods tended to gradually build economic and physical infrastructures as incomes cycled locally. Unless that local cycling is severely disrupted by every financial trick known to man...

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 01:36:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Leak through, trickle down, same crap (53+ / 0-)
    There are two ideas of government.  There are those who believe that if you just legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, that their prosperity will leak through on those below.  The Democratic idea has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous their prosperity will find its way up and through every class that rests upon it.
    William Jennings Bryan, July 9, 1896.

    "Corporations exist not for themselves, but for the people." Ida Tarbell 1908.

    by Navy Vet Terp on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 06:05:48 PM PDT

  •  The plural of "opus" (27+ / 0-)

    is "opera". Really.

    We are all in the same boat on a stormy sea, and we owe each other a terrible loyalty. -- G.K. Chesterton

    by Keith Pickering on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 06:09:36 PM PDT

  •  Hey wolfbane ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    howabout, DRo, FindingMyVoice

    You wanna' weigh in on this ? ☛ So Arizona, what do we do now?

    The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

    by Azazello on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 06:10:45 PM PDT

  •  The most effective stimulus to the economy..... (53+ / 0-)

    ....during a time of recessions is food stamps according to leading economists.  They get 100% spent almost immediately.

    The least effective is a tax cut to someone who will save it.

    It's all about consumption vs. savings.

    Currently, corporate balance sheets are flush with cash.   The average American doesn't have near enough disposable income.  That's the basic problem with our current economy.

    •  Thanks, CTMTN ... (12+ / 0-)

      You really gave me a "duh" moment. I should have thought of working that in.

    •  Nonsense (6+ / 0-)

      The most effective stimulus is rebates and tax incentives to people buying yachts, expensive cars and fifth homes. What are you, some sort of commie?

      "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

      by kovie on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 07:31:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My town has 3 grocery stores. (18+ / 0-)

      I read just today that one of them is closing.

      I have friends that work there and their jobs will be gone.

      Before I knew this I had the idea to double everyone's food stamps for a year as an experiment. Every business in town would be hiring and they would have to pay a decent wage to compete for workers and people would not need food stamps so much.

      Food stamps have to be spent, you cannot put them in an overseas bank account. At least I don't think so.

    •  Actually government investment in infrastructure (4+ / 0-)

      returns in the neighborhood of $70 per dollar spent over the life of the project. Food Stamps and Unemployment Insurance only return a little less than $2 per dollar spent. Even make work jobs would be more effective at stimulating the economy than Food Stamps.

      Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

      by RMForbes on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 08:43:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We have different perspectives. (6+ / 0-)

        Short term, food stamps and unemployment benefits provide the most immediate bump to the economy because they keep consumer spending going.

        Long term, infrastructure spending is best because it returns people to work.  Problem is, that it can take a while to get projects going.

        Tax cuts are terrible because too much of the money is saved, not spent.

        •  We don't have different perspectives at all (0+ / 0-)

          I agree that short term in our current political environment that food stamps and UI help keep our economy going. However, it would be even better if we had a system where the government was the employer of last resort so when the private sector goes through a down cycle the government would be able to put those who lost their jobs back to work almost immediately.

          Even workers in government jobs are taxpayers and there are plenty of things in our commons to clean up, fix, upgrade and build. But what would I know...I must be one of those stinking socialist like FDR.  

          Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

          by RMForbes on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:21:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That is true (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        organicus, RMForbes

        And the best bang-for-the-buck infrastructure investments are in energy and education.

        Too bad real, positive investments in those areas make Republicans (those in their own party and those currently inhabiting ours) all butthurt.

        However, Food Stamps have the benefit of returning double the investment..really really FAST.

        There is no way for a citizen of a Republic to abdicate his responsibilities. ---Edward R. Murrow

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:17:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The problem is, infrastructure spending should (0+ / 0-)

        not be focused on during recessions. Throwing a bunch of ad hoc programs together in the short amount of time necessary to boost Demand in a recession is a recipe for waste and fraud.

        Infrastructure spending should simply be part of a continuing commitment to improving our nation, productive capacity, and standards of living. Not a short term stimulus.

        if its important enough to do during a recession, its important enough to do under normal conditions.

        The fastest way to increase demand is to either
        A) cut FICA taxes, as people will see increased take-home pay immediately and in every paycheck

        or

        B) just send everyone checks every month until demand and employment are at a more desired level.

        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

        by Auburn Parks on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:30:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Source of data? Would like to add to my list of... (0+ / 0-)

        Source of data?

        Would like to add to my list of data-driven arguments.

    •  It amazes me (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snazzzybird

      that we as a country let (and keep letting) the Republicans destroy our country because of greed.  That's it, that's the heart of it.  It is the insatiable greed of the 1% enabled by the Republicans, whose job apparently is to make rich assholes feel justified in their greed and to stoke the greed of the lower classes by dangling the carrot that this could all be theirs someday if they just keep believing in the Republican fairy of trickle down and clap louder.

      The Republican party is the party of greed, it is the party of "me."  The GOP is the party that insidiously appeals to your basest instincts and justifies them for you.

      There is nothing redeemable about the GOP, they are evil through and through.  They serve no purpose but to destroy the economy for the purpose of enriching their benefactors, they stand in the way of progress for the purpose of enriching their benefactors and deny the very real problems that not just our country but humanity faces for the purpose of enriching their benefactors.

      Greed is at the heart of all of it, it will be the undoing of humanity, yet it is the bread and butter of the GOP.

      Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

      by democracy inaction on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:14:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ding Ding Ding, modern developed economies (0+ / 0-)

      especially ones which are net importers, are always demand constrained. Capitalists are so efficient and productive, that there is just no need to use all available labor in order to produce the number of goods and services that the people can afford to buy. Its called the paradox of productivity in MMT circles.

      Think about supply for a second in the US economy, literally the entire world is part of our production and supply chain, how can domestic US consumers afford to buy up the entire capacity of the world that willing to export to us? Not gonna happen.

      "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

      by Auburn Parks on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:26:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Depends upon goals (0+ / 0-)

      Spending on useful infrastructure results in the public receiving something of significant value in exchange for what is spent - the public benefit may even be greater than what was spent (Hoover Dam and many examples of this).  So servicing the debt may be less than the public benefit - a profit for the public as the country increases its assets.  Meanwhile the employees building and the workers in suppliers get cash to circulate in the economy.  After the completion of the infrastructure, new jobs are created using the new infrastructure, increasing employment growth and economic expansion.

      In the case of food stamps, those receiving the funds provide nothing in return to the public for those funds.  Nothing is built that makes the country better off, so the debt service is a longer term burden on the public.  

      The purpose of food stamps is to provide food security for those who need it, not a means to stimulate the economy.  Even in a very strong economy, food stamps are important for those who need assistance.

      The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

      by nextstep on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:09:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Interest payments that we choose to pay (0+ / 0-)

        on savings accounts at the Fed (aka T-bonds) is not a burden in any way. The Govt's budget is not like your personal budget. Its illegal for you to create US Dollars, you would go to jail for counterfeiting, on the other hand, creating US dollars is the Constitutional right of We The People thru Congress.

        Article 1 Section 8:
        "....the right to coin money and regulate the value thereof"

        The point of stimulating an economy is increasing demand, cash transfers are a much faster way of increasing demand than infrastructure spending. That doesn;t mean that infrastructure spending is not stimulative, only that they the process takes much longer to occur.

        If its worth building during a recession, then its worth building out of a recession.

        "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

        by Auburn Parks on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:33:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Kansas does not have power to sell treasuries or (0+ / 0-)

          finance its spending through monetization, so your comment in no way applies to Kansas state government.

          Even at the Federal level, there is a cost and limits to spending through selling public debt or monetization.  You will not find any Nobel Economists who will disagree with my statement - there are a few crackpots who will not agree (just like climate change).

          Part of the cost of higher Federal debt when it is excessive is that it undermines confidence in the value of the currency - which is the only basis of support for a fiat currency's value.

          The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

          by nextstep on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:44:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are right, my comment is only applicable (0+ / 0-)

            to the Dollar sovereign, which is Congress.

            "Even at the Federal level, there is a cost and limits to spending through selling public debt or monetization."

            Yep, and the costs are on the inflation and supply side.
            So let me ask you, is inflation too high right now?
            Is supply to low right now relative to demand or is demand too low for how much we are capable of producing? So neither of those are a concern right now.

            "You will not find any Nobel Economists who will disagree with my statement"

            That doesn't mean very much. Last year Eugene Fama was given a Nobel for his "efficient market hypothesis" what a joke.

            Krugman has a Nobel and he doesn't even understand bank and double entry accounting. Nobels are just about meaningless in economics.

            "Part of the cost of higher Federal debt when it is excessive is that it undermines confidence in the value of the currency"

            There is no such thing as Federal Debt in the way that you are using the term. T-securities are nothing but digital entries on a central ledger at the Fed and TSY. T-securities are no different than CDs at your local bank. Why would you ever be concerned with the amount of savings deposits at the Fed?
            Are you concerned with the number of savings deposits Chase or Bank of America has?

            "- which is the only basis of support for a fiat currency's value."

            Thats definitely not the only basis, taxes and Govt service offerings support a fiat currency's value. The productive output of the currency area or in other words, the types of things you can buy with a particular currency also supports a fiat currency's value.

            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

            by Auburn Parks on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:53:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I'll let actual economists work out the details (29+ / 0-)

    But on a general, overall level, that operates more on a human and political than economic level, what happened is that a bunch of very rich people who wanted to become even richer, while paying less in taxes on it all, realized that the easiest way to do that was to basically take short cuts, by:

    --Outsourcing labor overseas and thus destroying US jobs

    --Keeping wages artificially low and thus stealing from their employees

    --Selling cheap overseas-made products and thus hurting US businesses

    --Getting regulations loosened or eliminated and thus destroying local ecosystems and hurting workers and consumers

    --Getting government to cut essential services and redirect the savings to them, in the form of tax cuts and business incentives

    They've basically been raiding our seed corn and grain reserves, to enrich themselves without giving us any matching value in return. It's literally as if I raided my neighbor's fridge to fill my own, without so much as an IOU in return. The specifics are more complicated, but in essence, this is what they've done.

    They're THIEVES, and anyone praising them for their business "savvy" is either a blithering idiot, or an ass-kissing liar.

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 07:29:53 PM PDT

    •  0. Ending Meaningful Progressive Taxation (5+ / 0-)

      so that they could keep what they grabbed.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 08:30:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I would add one clarification... (17+ / 0-)

      the M.O. over the last few decades has been to give tax breaks firstly, and then when there isn't enough money to pay for services, those services are cut because 'we need to balance the budget'.

      Politically, you really can't do it the other way (run on cutting services, and then give tax breaks), the optics are bad.  But if you run on cutting taxes, people can get behind that. It then creates a shortage which Conservatives then exploit by saying things like "your family balances a budget, so should government'. Blah, blah.

      Bush did this, and Walker did this in Wisconsin. Republicans tried to do this in California, and their end game almost succeeded...heck it still may succeed, but a majority of Californians have become wise to Conservative tactics....for now.

      •  The specifics are more complex (0+ / 0-)

        but this is the gist of what they do, and, more importantly, why. They're a bunch of twisted parasitic fucks who want to get rich and richer off the hard work of others. The only reason most of them went to B-school was to learn how to do this and make the connections that would let them do this.

        "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

        by kovie on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:09:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  THIS. And what passes for "innovation" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SilentBrook

      is too often "UNNOVATION"

      Unfortunately, much of what our economy produces today isn’t innovative — it’s unnovative. The evidence is hard to dispute: we merely need to note how deep the global decline is, how consistently 20th Century business fails to do stuff that matters — or just how many industries are caught simultaneously in deep crisis.
      Examples?
      The Hummer was a product unnovation, which destroyed value for both society and Detroit.

      CDOs were a financial unnovation, that crippled the financial system, and have cost everyone hundreds of billions.

      Integrating into auto finance was a business design unnovation for Detroit — one which diluted and sapped the incentives to make authentically innovative cars.

      Hedge funds are (probably) a management unnovation...

      A commenter suggests clarifying the definition
      unnovation as 'something novel that creates temporary value by means of concealing its true nature'
      To which I would add 'narrowly-captured' or 'narrowly-shared' value, and that  the "true nature" causes harmful medium-or long-term effects to a broader set of stakeholders.

      "..The political class cannot solve the problems it created. " - Jay Rosen

      by New Rule on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 02:07:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good diary. And btw, trickle-down (19+ / 0-)

    was a scam from the get-go
    lol trickle-down-GOP

    My crafts are 100% Hobby-Lobby Free! Visit my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet

    by jan4insight on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 07:39:49 PM PDT

  •  I know less than bupkis (fine word). (22+ / 0-)

    If I were the government of my town and I needed my lawn mowed and I paid someone $100 to do it, that someone would stop at the gas station and grocery store or maybe pay a bill and some of that money would go to taxes so the entire community would benefit. This would stimulate the economy in my small town.

    If I paid a rich company to have someone mow my lawn, they would pay someone $10 and hide the rest somewhere like a Cayman Island bank.

    My employee would be struggling to live, the rich are getting richer and local businesses are not getting much and I am not collecting very much in taxes and can barely handle the food stamps and other subsidies that my employee needs to survive.

    Trickle down has to be one of the worst economic theories ever.

  •  Brownback's extremism (14+ / 0-)

    has damaged the Kansas economy so much that he is polling behind his Democratic challenger, in a state that Obama lost by 22 points in 2012 and 15 points in 2008.

    Brownback probably thought a "Kansas miracle" would have propelled another presidential run.

    Not gonna happen now.

    A public option for health insurance is a national priority.

    by devtob on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 07:55:31 PM PDT

  •  People vote against their own self-interests (7+ / 0-)

    Some people must really believe the rich know how to spend money better than we do. All it takes is some 3rd grade math to know that less money circulating in the economy means less money spent on goods and services and less jobs.

    •  They Vote For Their Self Interests. (12+ / 0-)

      They are not low information they're high DIS information. The low information voters are the ones who so often stay home. The ones that turn out in droves especially in non presidential contests are the paranoids and enraged ones coming to stop liberals from pricing the jobs to flee overseas, impoverishing our job creators, and most especially, taking our tax dollars to give to undeserving thosssse people.

      There's a reason the rightwing backers have poured billions into half a century of propaganda, scores of messaging thinktanks and media buyups. It's not so their voters would have little information.

      They sure didn't trust them to vote against their true interests without a LOT of persuasion.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 08:34:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  More like cultural bigotry (0+ / 0-)

        I work with a lot of middle class white people and it amazes me how much they perseverate about the "other" getting something they might not get. To hear them talk you would think they envy poor black and brown people.

        Just another day in Oceania.

        by drshatterhand on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:47:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You know more about economics (7+ / 0-)

    than many "experts".

    The faithful Friedman acolytes who worship his "ideal free markets" will seldom admit that our markets are not ideal or free. They blame all the market problems on government regulation, as though deregulating markets will somehow magically remove the cheats, the swindlers, the monopolists, and the bankers who currently bend the markets and regulations to their advantage.

    Money always flows up. I don't think it matters whether your economy is called capitalist, communist, or primitive  barter-ist, wealth has always traveled up to the people in power who already have it.  

    •  We Don't Know What Publicly Known Economists Know. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mopshell, Yonit, TKO333

      All we know is what they say, and the opposite of that, which is the historic record.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Jul 19, 2014 at 08:34:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You're wrong! (20+ / 0-)

    You know everything important there is to know about economics. I've got a degree in it and this diary is more informative than some of my classes were. If people actually understood economics they'd never elect politicians like Brownback or Walker.

    •  What are you trying to say, that ricardian equiva- (0+ / 0-)

      lence, loanable funds, marginal productivity theory, utility maximizing rational agents, DSGE modeling, infinite time horizons, intertemporal budget constraints and much of the rest that comprises mainstream economics is a bunch of horse#$%&?

      What about bunch of nonsense.

      "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it. If we can afford full employment killing Germans, we can afford full employment during peace-time.

      by Auburn Parks on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:33:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks so much. Sharing widely with my fellow K... (7+ / 0-)

    Thanks so much. Sharing widely with my fellow Kansans.

  •  I only know when I hear anti-science. (7+ / 0-)

    Someone recently tried to convert me to believe in their ideas about economics.  They flat out told me that relying on evidence to determine which economic theories were reliable was the mark of someone bad at economics.  That is an excuse one concocts when there is no evidence.

    It does lend credence to the whole idea that a particular branch of economics isn't science, but some pseudo-religious cult that exists to make wealthy people feel better about themselves.

    We need to disabuse people of the notion that they can understand the world by asserting some axiomatic list of truths and then going from there.

    •  Federalist society economists are anti-science... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, mollyd, Paul Rogers

      I got upgraded to first class back-in-the-day and sat next to one. He had a briefcase with the logo on it. His colleague came up-front and they talked for a long time about laffer curve.

      Decided it's important to find out what they were talking about and it is ragtime. Junk science as you say "pseudo-religous."

      My economic ed was limited to one freshmen course with the professor telling 300 of us we should become plumbers instead of engineers. He wore a bow-tie and a nixon button.

      ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

      by Notreadytobenice on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 12:10:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wichita is the headquarters for....... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, jan4insight

    ......Koch Industries.  Go figure.

  •  What's wrong with Kansas, is the education of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, salmo

    of the people, if what you say is true then Kansans have paid a terriblel price for their new found awareness which took too long and cost too much.  This is the ever present phenomena of 'Bleeding Kansas', and contentious doesn't even scratch the historical surface of this state of being.

  •  Tipped & reced (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FindingMyVoice

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 03:25:57 AM PDT

  •  Our First Clue Should Have Been (2+ / 0-)

    that people who are notorious for their binary thinking, good/evil, black/white, rich/poor are not the kind of people you ever want to trust with flights of fancy. Because the way trickle down was presented, we were supposed to take it purely on faith.  No metrics or benchmarks given or expected.  Purely, take it on faith as a given.  

    No downside for them when it doesn't work out as planned, because now the money can be invested in lobbyists to keep the con going.

  •  Similarly, climate change theory/fact makes... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maryabein

    ...logical sense.  Still, they plug their ears and say, "la la la la."  You can't unsequester previously permanently sequestered carbon and methane and not expect the chemical composition of the atmosphere to remain unchanged.  Amazing how willfully ignorant people choose to be.

    Government works when you elect those who want it to. --askyron (2013)

    by Simul Iustus et Peccator on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 05:52:15 AM PDT

  •  About this comment in the diary above: "Since (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Heart of the Rockies

    nearly everybody agrees that Gov. Sam Brownback and his impossible economic theories are what put Kansas down the hopper"
    ===========

    But not everybody. I believe it was Michael Steele on MSNBC saying it's only been a few years. Give Brownback's "reforms" more time.

  •  All I know is Kim Kardashian (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    makes a butt load of money. I suppose she shites gold bricks or something. It's ridiculous.

    Doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will

    by miracle11 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:53:15 AM PDT

  •  Great read!! (3+ / 0-)

    I just love your phrase...

    A dollar doesn't know who tossed it on the table.
    That should be picked up and used often.

    Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

    by DRo on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 06:55:59 AM PDT

  •  When you pick up a general history (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FindingMyVoice, jan4insight

    book, you read about the Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Apollo Project. Infrastructure. That's history, and I don't see anyone, claiming that these projects should be disbanded.

    The oligarchy believe that their personal bank accounts are historical achievements.

    I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business.

    by CFAmick on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 07:10:40 AM PDT

  •  Trickle down works, but the pyramid is upside d... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leema, jan4insight

    Trickle down works, but the pyramid is upside down.

  •  well said. +1000 n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    There is no way for a citizen of a Republic to abdicate his responsibilities. ---Edward R. Murrow

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:12:20 AM PDT

  •  The reason why you understand economics. . . (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    is because you are not a professional economist, a tribe who has been whispering into Brownback's ear right along.

    Canem Praeteri, Cave Modo Hominem. (Never mind the dog, just watch out for the human)

    by T C Gibian on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 08:59:28 AM PDT

  •  "Trickle Down" is welfare for the rich. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    I suggest we call it out.

    To be first in the soil, which erupts in the coil, of trees veins and grasses all brought to a boil. -- The Maxx

    by notrouble on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 09:46:49 AM PDT

  •  Unemployment in Kansas is 4.9%, US is 6.1% (0+ / 0-)

    just to provide some context on the economy of Kansas.

    The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

    by nextstep on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 10:54:08 AM PDT

    •  This however is very misleading. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SilentBrook

      Kansas farm workers do not go 'unemployed' because farm workers don't necessarily have unemployment.. they just lose their farm.   The Kansas population is also down over 10k since the 2010 census, which means people have left the state.

      In reality unemployment in Kansas isn't as much of a problem as UNDER employment.   Kansans who are making less and less while working.

      Hostess shut down.  And now it's re-opened.  With 1/2 the workers making 1/2 the wages.   They aren't unemployed any longer.. but they aren't making what they were.

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle
      >Follow @tmservo433

      by Chris Reeves on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:50:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  what also happened to kansas, like those other (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SilentBrook

    ALEC successes, was talk radio

    Here are some things that Brownback and countless other fright-wingers either don't know or pretend they don't know:
    i doubt it's a coincidence that ALEC took off when rw radio did in the early 90's

    1000+ stations including the 4 limbaugh stations that kansas and kansas state endorse, have been selling those failed 'ideas' with excuses and rationalizations and myths for a long time and brownback and most of the GOP have been operating successfully in it.

    if that many republicans are standing up to it it could mean they are starting to reject the radio gods

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 11:27:24 AM PDT

  •  actually, it does. (0+ / 0-)

    "3) "Trickle down" may happen regularly with your new baby, but it doesn't happen in economics."

    the key is the title, "Trickle Down".

    when lower to middle class people come into some extra cash (say, a reduction in marginal tax rates), they tend to spend it all. while some goes towards debt reduction, most of it goes to basic requirements: food, clothing, roof over their heads. this, in turn, creates demand, which then creates jobs, to manage that increase in demand. those new employees now have money to spend, on mostly basic necessities, generating another round of increased demand, etc. this is the "flood up & down" theory of economics, or keynsianism.

    wealthy people, on the other hand, tend to either save or invest exra monies, because all of their basic necessities are met. they are much higher on maslow's "pyramid of needs". while some gets spent (the "trickle"), creating some small additional demand, most doesn't. this is the "trickle down" theory of economics.

    things tend to get very descriptive names. hence, "Trickle Down" very accurately describes what happens when wealthy people receive additional funds, some of it does trickle down, but most doesn't.

  •  Here in Texas (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dobleremolque

    I heard, "You know them cowbirds in your mule pen there, that pick through the turds to find seeds that the animals ain't digested? That right there is all you need to know about trickle down".

    I buy and sell well trained riding mules and American Mammoth Jack Stock.

    by old mule on Sun Jul 20, 2014 at 01:09:04 PM PDT

  •  Kansas economy...remember Chili (0+ / 0-)

    The whole purpose of the military coup in the first place was to protect the economic interests of the Chilean elite from President Allende’s socialist policies, and so soon after he took power, General Pinochet invited Milton Friedman and his libertarian-leaning Chicago Boys down to Chile to “reform” the economy.

    The Chicago Boys slashed government spending and privatized industries, ushering in a new era of harsh austerity measures.

    Their policies were, to put it bluntly, a total disaster.
    Does sound familiar to what's happening in KANSAS

  •  Drugged (0+ / 0-)

    If you are a Republican, the plural of "opus" is "opiates" because you need drugs to believe in the craziness.

  •  Welcome, New User - wolfbane in AZ (0+ / 0-)

    I see you are a New User, and I also see that you hit the floor running!

    I love your voice, I can hear Don Williams speaking as I read it :-) Smooth, soft georgia drawl, all about bringing a person around to realizing that they know what was up already, they'd just forgotten to notice.

    Welcome aboard, and I look forward to reading more from you in the future.

    You might want to peruse some of the Welcome New User diaries, which you can find right here.

    :-)  Hi!


    "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

    by Angie in WA State on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 01:35:20 PM PDT

  •  I think whoever thought up trickle down (0+ / 0-)

    was a very rich person who decided that if they stopped spending they would have more money for themselves, which they would.  And that might work for an individual, but it does not work for the multitude and a democratic society.  If everyone spent less, the economy would collapse and everyone would be worse off including the rich guy.  Spending is what makes the economy function and grow.  

  •  Good post (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kmt1923

    Every state where Rethuglican lesislatures have pulled these stunts the little people suffer. And yet it seems these very people are too stupid to realize they weild the power at the ballot box. There isn't ONE damned Rethuglican worth voting for at any level. Be it dog catcher, school board bozo, or governor. So for all you lame ass Rethuglicans that may read this, don't blame the Dems. It is your compadres that are f@@king everyone over. The simple reality is the more people working, the more people buying, the more jobs are created, the more people are buying. Thus stimulating the economy. But don't look to the Rethuglicans to do anything about that. For if it doesn't benefit the wealthy it ain't gonna happen. Kansass, Doplahoma, Texass, et al all desrve what they get/got. To see those to blame just stand in front of a mirror.

  •  If they absolutely have to cut taxes (0+ / 0-)

    why income taxes? Why has no Republican ever come forward with a state plan to end sales taxes?

    It cost more in administrative costs for both the Government and Business to do the transactions needed to monitor and collect sales taxes. This is due to the shear volume of transactions.

    Plus the sales tax gives internet business a distinct advantage over local brick and mortar business because they don't have to collect state sales taxes.

    The small business owners the Republicans supposedly are so worried about would love to see sales taxes abolished, and consumers would also be thrilled.

    But no they always want to cut income tax and business tax, and seem to have no problems making up the shortfall with additional sales tax.

    Before  you answer I do know why, but I don't know why no one ever calls them out on it.

    New Plan: Obamacare Old Plan: Nobodycares

    by groupw on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 02:28:06 PM PDT

  •  Maybe (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kmt1923

    Maybe now Kansas will go blue and stay there.

    I believe in separation of corporation and State.. It becomes class warfare only when the serfs fight back.

    by tipring on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 02:45:41 PM PDT

  •  trickle down (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kmt1923

    was always an inane concept- the wealthy devote great effort into preventing any such leakage of their accumulated goodies.

  •  Republican Fantasies (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kmt1923

    Economists et al seem to be laboring under the delusion that if they just explain what is wrong with the theories put forth by the GOP, that eventually these "geniuses" will understand that they are wrong.  There isn't a chance of that happening.  witness the state that just decided to follow Kansas down the rabbit hole.  These people are not "thinkers;" they are apologists.  They have to hold to these beliefs no matter what because these fallacies are the only justification they have been able to produce for cutting taxes for the rich and services for everyone else.

    If they should cease to feed their masters' appetite for an ever greater share of the pie; those same masters will stop providing funds for re-election campaigns, junkets etc.  The Republican Party was bought off years ago (the Democrats are not too far behind, but still have some conscience) and their only aim since drinking the KoolAid, is to keep their base so riled up about "takers, socialization of medicine and the black man in the White House, that they won't notice the hosing they regularly experience from their elected representatives.

      Vote to promote chastity, and to hell with the fact that your son or daughter will be unable to afford college or if they do attend, will be too poorly educated to qualify for advanced classes or if they do overcome both of these obstacles, won't be able to find a job.  But hey, as parents, we indicated quite firmly that we disapprove of premarital sex and we made that point by refusing to educate our children about anything but abstinence so we really can't be blamed for the high incidence of unwed pregnancies.  We voted for the people who shared our beliefs in the evils of sex, so how can we be blamed if our unmarried daughter can't get food stamps to feed her child?

  •  Democrats should make Kansas disaster the poste... (0+ / 0-)

    Democrats should make Kansas disaster the poster child for GOP & Libertarian economic policy outcome.

  •  Fun Fact: Denmark has very high taxes and yet (0+ / 0-)

    They are again considered the happiest and most secure people in the world. They don't have a huge wage discrepancy, in fact you can live quite well even if your job is at McDonalds where the average worker makes the equivalent of $21.00 an hour.  Everyone has access to healthcare and education because everyone pays taxes, not just the middle class.
    The Tea Party loonies want to keep on believing that raising the minimum wage, socialized medicine and education reform will destroy the country. Maybe they should spend a week in Denmark!

     

  •  The other thing that seems to never (0+ / 0-)

    make headlines, let alone even a footnote, is that the people who have government jobs PAY TAXES just like the those who have jobs in the private sector. When we (yes, I am a state employee in Maine) are hit with furlough days, or job cuts, what we pay in taxes is less.  Double whammy economically - we have less to spend and we pay less in taxes. I'm no economist, but that just seems like a totally stupid way to "trickle down".

    When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it? Eleanor Roosevelt

    by seefleur on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 05:20:35 PM PDT

  •  Milton Friedman (0+ / 0-)

    I wonder how many deaths were caused by the economic policies Milton Friedman and his ilk espoused?
    Read: Naomi Klein's book "Shock Doctrine".

  •  The stupid idea that started it all. (0+ / 0-)

    The Republican's plan for 30 years has been 'Starve the Beast'.

    'Trickle Down Economics' was just a bumper sticker because if tax cuts paid for themselves, they would NOT 'Starve the Beast'.

  •  Just by way of caution for the future... (0+ / 0-)

    The "honest" argument over spending is between spending on "productive" labor versus "unproductive" labor.  Both can occur in both the private and public sectors, and I'm NOT referring to some subjective political definition of productive versus unproductive.

    This is why Keynesian public spending should, with great preference, be focused on something that increases productivity, and particularly prolonged productivity. The easiest example is infrastructure spending.  Another example is education spending, but that's more abstract and produces benefits further into the future (13 years of K-12 plus however much college).  That's not to say that education isn't legitimate productive spending.  Only that it's benefits for increased productivity are not as immediate.  Re-education is more immediately productive, but of course K-12 plus college is still important for the more distance future.

    An example of unproductive public spending is what Reagan engaged in when Reagan used Keynesian stimulus (yes, Reagan used Keynesian stimulus without admitting it) -- military spending.  (You weren't foolish enough to believe it was about the USSR, were you?  That's the cover story.  He had a recession to counter with Keynesian stimulus.)

    Military spending produces a short term boost to the economy, but has no significant lasting productivity effects.  It creates only a tiny lasting productivity boost (mostly due to SOME of the research and development) compared to the amount of spending.  There is no long-term boost to productivity that results from building a new aircraft carrier just so you can mothball an old aircraft carrier, or building a ton of new F-35s just so you can retire F-16s and F-18s.  That's the ultimate in "dig a hole just so you can fill it back in again".

    Bigger Corporations = Smaller Individuals

    by Smeagel4T on Mon Jul 21, 2014 at 07:30:50 PM PDT

  •  They took the money for themselves (0+ / 0-)

    It's that simple. And so far they are getting away with it.

  •  I think (0+ / 0-)

    That the plural of opus is opera.

  •  The frightening thing is (0+ / 0-)

    there are people out there crazier than Sam Brownback running for public office under the GOP banner and people actually vote for them.

  •  You know what is really scary ? (0+ / 0-)

    Kansas is not the only state where this crazy ultra conservative punitive economic theory is being implemented. It is the best example though of what a dismal failure in trickle down economics looks like. Only an idiot or a con artist would suggest that by cutting taxes, especially for the rich and businesses, it will magically create new jobs. It is clearly voodoo economics intended to benefit the wealthy and that it clearly does. It takes from the poor and middle class and gives to the rich and they sit on it or put the money in off shore accounts or the stock market. As long as voters continue to elect politicians who adhere to this fools experiment in how to destroy an economy. We the less fortunate will suffer the consequences. A stream has a better chance of flowing uphill then a trickle down economic policy has in creating a prosperous vibrant economy. We should remember that a dollar doesn't know who put it on the table. Did it come from a government paid job or from a private sector job? I'm sure that there will be critics of my opinions because they will be in the small camp of those who benefit from voodoo.  

  •  IT'S CRYSTAL CLEAR (0+ / 0-)

        At least it should be crystal clear, EVEN TO REPUBLICANS that all these REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS AND LEGISLATURES that we the people elected ARE JUST GOING TO TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN!!!

    They are simply getting elected, running the economy into the ground by paying off the  big corporations that gave them all the money with giant tax cuts to get them elected!!!   THEY WILL SIMPLY MOVE ON WITH THEIR LIVES AND ALL THAT KICK-BACK MONEY FROM CORPORATIONS AND LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER!!!  THEY WILL BECOME LOBBYISTS OF THESE SAME CORPORATIONS AND JUST KICK BACK THE NEXT ROUND OF REPUBLICANS!!!  

    That is the only way they can keep power!!!  THEY CANNOT GET ELECTED OR MAKE MONEY ON THEIR OWN!  

    They don't know how to work!!!  They have never worked for a living!  They don't know what it takes to have an actual job!  They have always had it given to them!  Therefore:  What do they know about ANYTHING BUT POLITICS???  

    THEY WOULDN'T KNOW WHICH END OF A SHOVEL TO POINT TOWARD THE GROUND!!!

  •  One result (0+ / 0-)

    of the economic crunch for Kansas:
    I work in a law office doing collections.  Less than five years ago, it cost under $60 to file a limited action suit ($500 to $5,000), and there was no charge to have the sheriff's department in any county serve the suit on the defendant.
    As of the latest figures, filing fees now include a $19 judicial surcharge (because it's easier to add a judicial surcharge under the guise of balancing the court budget than to raise actual filing fees).  Filing fees run from $54 total to $120 for limited actions cases.
    In addition, Sheriff's offices now charge $15 per address for service fees, and are not required to visit the residence any specific number of times besides once.  Thankfully, most service can be obtained by residential tack and mailing.

    Fees have gotten so high that we now recommend to our creditor clients to simply close accounts under $200, because it's not cost effective to sue.

    To the left, to the left....

    by CWinebrinner on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 03:03:01 PM PDT

  •  You said a mouthful there: (0+ / 0-)
    Too bad it'll take them decades to recover from Badass Sam Brownback.
    They won't HAVE decades to spend recovering.  If the next governor hasn't repaired everything and got the economy soaring again by the end of her or his first term, it will be the last term.

    And no, I'm not dissing Kansas any more than any other state.  Across the board, American voters are nothing if not fickle.  "Fix everything immediately or suffer the consequences!" is the byword of the American voter.  Patience has no place in the country and the Republicans know it.  So they can destroy a state with impunity because the Dems will get, at most, one bite at the apple and the R's be back in power again.

    The price of apathy is to be ruled by evil men - - Plato . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . We must be the change we wish to see in the world - - Mohandas Gandhi

    by twocrows1023 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 05:40:39 PM PDT

  •  and how long would it take (0+ / 0-)

    for our nation to recover from the trickle down that has made billionaires of the top 1% while almost wiping out the middle class.  Greed has overtaken our government and they in turn are ensuring the top 1% get what they want for favors in return, that leaves us out in the dumpsters.

    Our democracy is dying and we are allowing it to happen.

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