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Hold on to your hats- I used to live in a deeeeeeeep blue district where Democrats ran unopposed.

Holy crap! That doesn't happen in red states! That impossible!

Nope.

It's true.

I was a Democrat in a Democratic area. No work was needed in District 19, so I focused my energy on District 18, a purple district that had a republican representing it back in the day.

BAM! District 18 is now blue. Not deep blue, but reliably blue. We got Phylis King elected after a few years of struggle. And it was a struggle.

Phylis worked her ass off, literally going door to door personally and making her case. When she knocked on my door I told her "don't waste any more time here- we're voting for you. Now, how can we help?"

Data entry, phone calls. Lots of mundane shit that was a time suck.

But we did it. And King is now mostly safe from a challenge. She's awesome and I'm proud to have worked for her.

Why am I telling you this?

Because the arguments over NN15 have exposed the marginalization of red states in a way that I never could before, and I want to rip the proverbial band-aid off that wound and expose the shit out of it.

First of all, let me state that I understand kos' stance on NN15 being held in Arizona. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. And that goes for everyone that has decided to follow kos's lead.

I carry no ill will towards any of you.

But the vitriol that was directed towards my friends in Arizona is something that I cannot let go without some confrontation.

Those of us in red states are fighting a battle that those of you in blue states don't or won't understand. IT IS WORK.

Most people don't realize that in most instances the urban areas of red states are blue and years ahead of the rural areas. Boise is nothing like Burley, ID. SLC is nothing like Logan, UT.

And this is especially true in the downtown metropolitan areas.

However, in the rural areas most people aren't as bigoted and conservative as the voting bloc would have you believe. I'm in southern Idaho where democrats have nearly zero visibility, but where they COULD wage strong campaigns if they tried. But the party won't bring a fight here.

I'm in the trenches these days, in an area where republicans run unopposed for state offices but where a democrat could win if they honestly tried. So it's easy for people on DK to visualize a conservative hellhole and honestly, some days I feel the same way about this town.

But I've spent two years here changing hearts and minds. That is work, and that's exactly where work has to be done.

I spent a lot of time here in a deep depression wanting to run back to the deep blue comfort of district 19 but I don't need to work in a safely blue district. My work HAS to be in the red zones, so I've decided to stay and FIGHT.

So before any one of you in solid blue states attack a red state, ask yourself this: who really needs your support? The people of Seattle or the people of Twin Falls, ID? Because those of us in these places that you so freely mock have to do a metric ton more work on a daily basis than you do in a year.

We are supposed to be all about the fifty-state strategy yet y'all mock the people in the red states when WE NEED YOUR HELP.

We are slowly, PAINFULLY turning red states blue. So how about you save the energy that you spend mocking and marginalizing us working with us and showing some support? If you want to turn Idaho blue I can show you the way.

If you want to turn Arizona blue, the Arizona kossacks can show you the way.

Et cetera, et cetera.

GIVE US SOME FUCKING SUPPORT.

We are tired and we've been working our asses off.

Instead of mocking us, why don't you work with us?

Originally posted to Le Bois de Bleu on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 01:13 PM PDT.

Also republished by Baja Arizona Kossacks, DKos Florida, and North & Central Florida Kossacks.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I'm tired (450+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, jbou, Angie in WA State, Mimikatz, dwellscho, i dunno, Yosef 52, Mogolori, Odysseus, copymark, Trendar, Liberal Thinking, Geenius at Wrok, Danno11, NYmom, Emerson, Yoshimi, LynChi, kpardue, cotterperson, TheProf2222, eeff, xynz, NCJim, Matilda, niemann, Heart of the Rockies, Bruce The Moose, maggiemae, rasbobbo, missLotus, 88kathy, cardinal, Wee Mama, mint julep, pucklady, susakinovember, whenwego, jiffykeen, cosmic debris, Virginia Victory, nycnat, Terre, fumie, semiot, navajo, Cedwyn, high uintas, davis90, wader, tomephil, kharma, tidalwave1, psnyder, Moody Loner, Dallasdoc, Urizen, pat bunny, HeyMikey, Steveningen, Catte Nappe, wordwraith, Brian82, zerelda, Hillbilly Dem, KayCeSF, Science, basquebob, papercut, shesaid, sillycarrot, sable, CWinebrinner, Jeff Simpson, fugitive, esp13, duckhunter, emeraldmaiden, wmspringer, hester, Bluefin, monkeybrainpolitics, socal altvibe, sc kitty, mrsgoo, Arahahex, BlueMississippi, unfangus, oceanview, splashy, bunsk, mikeconwell, GayHillbilly, louavul, Ckntfld, palmer18, Rosaura, CoolOnion, livingthedream, mikidee, FG, Marihilda, Cato come back, rockdart, sotiredofusernames, just another vortex, goodpractice, Chaddiwicker, bnasley, Shadowmuffin, DSC on the Plateau, Bongobanger, Demi Moaned, sailmaker, USHomeopath, owlbear1, progreen, hwmnbn, Fox Ringo, Chrislove, bigrivergal, pioneer111, CA Nana, samanthab, Habitat Vic, Words In Action, mommyof3, Jollie Ollie Orange, wintergreen8694, kj in missouri, PeteZerria, wsbuffalo, paradise50, multilee, BeninSC, Loose Fur, science nerd, barkingcat, shyewoods, NWTerriD, caryltoo, jomi, Buckeye Nut Schell, DWG, BrooklynJohnny, Floyd Blue, Stein, JanL, Imhotepsings, Proteus7, Oscar is disgusted also, wxorknot, Blue Bell Bookworm, Lysis, UberFubarius, emorej a Hong Kong, The Nose, lgmcp, KDfrAZ

    I've been working my ass off to bring about change. I don't need to log onto this site to see my state or other red states being denigrated.

    Let's do the 50 state strategy and help those of us in red states. Mocking us doesn't help.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 01:13:33 PM PDT

  •  it's rough sometimes... (136+ / 0-)

    ...busting your ass to turn your red state blue and then coming here and seeing people say "Secede already!"  Sometimes they'll oh-so-magnanimously offer to let the Democrats in the red states move up to one of their blue states.  But maybe I don't wanna live in your damn state.  I like my state -- I just don't like the way a lot of my stupid neighbors vote, so I keep working to change that.

    So a little encouragement of people stuck in places like (in my case) Mississippi would be cool.  But, the fact is, I'll keep working to turn my state blue (or at least a deeper purple every year - my life ain't likely to be that long) whether I get encouragement from my "friends" here or not.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 01:31:50 PM PDT

  •  Turning Arizona blue (43+ / 0-)
    State of Arizona's Latino Vote

    Executive Summary

    • Arizona demographic destiny is certain to be more Latino, and Hispanic voters are altering the shape of state politics. The Hispanic electorate continues to grow because of ongoing mobilization and incorporation strategies to register and turn out voters.

    • There is room for improvement on Hispanic voter participation, but the needle is certainly moving. From 2008 to 2012 Hispanic voter registration grew by 26%, and turnout increased by 37%.

    • Careful analysis of the actual and potential vote in Arizona shows relatively small increases in Latino voter participation could have turned the 2012 U.S. Senate election in favor of Democratic candidate Richard Carmona.

    • Democrats made significant gains in Congressional elections and the state legislature as a result of Latino voter support in their districts.

    • Decreasing partisan affiliation across the state should motivate both parties to expand their appeal with Latinos, the one place in the state where the electorate can be expanded for several years to come.

    • The state's Latino electorate is more attuned to immigration issues compared to Latinos in all other states. Arizona's Latino electorate rates above their co- ethnic counter parts in the following:
    o rankingimmigrationthemostimportantissue
    o voting in elections as a show of support for the Latino community
    o willingness to support Republican candidates if they pass immigration
    reform inclusive of a pathway to citizenship

    And from the conclusions
    Despite it all, the Arizona Latino electorate remains willing to support GOP candidates if the party passes comprehensive immigration reform inclusive of a pathway to citizenship. In fact, Arizona Hispanic voters are more inclined to support Republicans under that condition, than their counterparts in any other state. Given the current and growing influence of Hispanic voters in state legislative, Congressional and statewide races, the party would be wise to take them up on it.
    It is not enough to motivate the vote here. There also has to be something that people WANT to vote for. Democrats can't take the vote for granted here. Their votes will have to be earned. Democrats will have to be progressive on immigration reform and border issues in Arizona if they want elections to go their way.

    Yes, BB, a lot of work. Thanks for your help!

    Here's to the glorious pessimists who still fight for optimism and better days. If you are walking with a grim slit on your face, it's because you give a shit that things are falling down and don't think that bullshit happy talk is a plan. - LHM

    by cosmic debris on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:03:48 PM PDT

  •  Hey, Blue. (42+ / 0-)

    You raise an important point, which holds true for many red--and blue--states:

    However, in the rural areas most people aren't as bigoted and conservative as the voting bloc would have you believe.
    Often, the countryside is more balanced and competitive than the city and, particularly, the "bedroom community" ring around it, where can be found some of the reddest districts (google "white flight").

    LA-2 is the single most lopsidedly Democratic district in the country. LA-1 elected David Duke once upon a time and is currently represented by Steve Scalise.

    The problem isn't necessarily the country folk. It's the suburbans in their Suburbans.

    I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

    by Crashing Vor on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:09:21 PM PDT

    •  and sometimes its the cityfolk (16+ / 0-)

      I do not like to generalize about the ruralfolk, the suburban folk or the city folk. We all try our best and  we should not attempt to pigion hole people by where they live but rather by their actions and heart.

      •  Hence my cautious modifier "often." (20+ / 0-)

        But seeing the red rings around places like New Orleans, Philadelphia, etc., I think the question is worth asking: should we be spending more resources out in the country than we are?

        I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

        by Crashing Vor on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:33:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  similar pattern in GA (22+ / 0-)

          John Lewis--yes, THAT John Lewis, civil rights hero--represents central Atlanta.

          The Atlanta suburbs are mostly deep-red, with several GOP Congresscritters. The exception is African-American Democrat David Scott, who represents the part of the ATL suburbs (my part) that has absorbed the most African-Americans migrating out from Atlanta as they achieve middle-class status, and the most Latinos.

          But out in the countryside is where it gets interesting. Some of the GOPers representing rural & small-city GA districts in Congress vie for wingnuttiest of the wingnuts (like Paul "evolution is a lie from the pit of hell" Broun), but there's also John Barrow--yes, a Blue Dog, but one of the last very few white Democrats in Congress from the South. And most interesting of all is Sanford Bishop, an African-American Democrat in his umpteenth term representing a majority-white Congressional district.

          Hey, my Aunt Rose in Metairie just turned 94, still doing well. I'm training for the New Orleans Jazz Half-Marathon on Nov. 1--my first. At age 53, better late than never. Looking forward to the trip.

          "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

          by HeyMikey on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 04:07:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Then there's the small-town, (11+ / 0-)

        "petit bourgeoise", who are neither city nor rural, and that is where I think much of the keeping-up-with-the-Joneses bigotry and stupidity comes from.  

        I'm from GA, and this is simply what I've seen, during my life:  

        Most truly rural people are landowners, traditional farmers, and are accustomed to sharing and "taking care of" other entities, be they plant, animal or human. These are often Democrats.  (Like Jimmy Carter - "peanut farmer".) There is, in the South, a feeling of compassion, noblesse oblige, even, stirring among this landed class.

        The most Republican voters I see fall into two categories.   One is the poor white - those who are one generation removed from a tenant shack - and are now living "in town", and are quite bigoted, as well as illiterate. The other group is one generation removed from a slightly better financial state, than the tenants, middle- and upper-middle "neauveau-riche" (they think), and they are afflicted with delusions of grandeur (if you'll pardon more French).

        It's all about money for these types.  Chump change, at that.  Republicans fomented much racial division after the civil war, in the form of pitting the poor whites against the poor blacks (NOT the other way around, of course!), over scarce resources and land, which THEY were "redistributing"!

        This fomenting of financial resentment was easy during "reconstruction", and the depression, when everyone was scraping to get by.  The South is the only region of this country to have suffered under the occupation of a conquerer.  Keep that in mind.  No matter the causes of war, the victors (in this case, the Republicans) always "make out", in ways that hurt the conquered even further.  They didn't employ "divide and conquer"; they employed "conquer and divide" - to lasting effect.

        Republicans are now reaping the benefits of that financial/social engineering. If poor white Southerners could only see how they've been hoodwinked and abused...

        And if only the rest of the nation could better understand the underhanded manipulations that the complex entity called the "Red States" have developed under...

        THEN, we could perhaps "push the right buttons", among the red-state "right", to set this sorry state of affairs... aright?

        We need help, not hate.

  •  Living in Michigan, I can attest (40+ / 0-)

    This is a blue state in national elections (both presidential and U.S. Senate), but the other side controls almost every aspect of state government.

    When "work-for-less" went into law, people basically ridiculed us for letting that happen. As if we could've stopped it.

    Like you, I (and so many others - Eclectablog, for instance) have been busting my ass off trying to do something about the crap that goes on here.

    Michigan, you're beautiful - but your politicians stink. You need a Schauer.

    by ScottyUrb on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:12:35 PM PDT

  •  Preach. (36+ / 0-)

    I have never (except for four halcyon years while stationed in Washington DC) lived in a blue state, or even a blue city in my entire 50 years of life.  You folks in your cushy ivory towers in New England, the West Coast or college towns have never gotten it and I don't think ever will.  It is a parallel/alternate universe that you don't acknowledge, but you know what?  The wingers out here certainly are aware of YOU, and don't dismiss YOU or your agenda as crazy, backward or doomed to fail.  It's why they fight so hard against the progressive agenda.  

    We need to take the threat that these people pose to modernity and human progress as deadly serious as they take us...

  •  I posted this comment in another diary (37+ / 0-)

    and you recommended it.  I hope you do not mind my reposting it here too.  It speaks for me.

    Stereotyping

    That is all this is.  It is punishing everyone due a stereotype that lumps everyone in a certain geographic area into the same ugly pot.  As a southerner and a Floridian, I have experienced it.  As a liberal, I deplore stereotyping.

    Markos is free to do whatever he pleases because he owns dkos.  But I would hope that each person here would make his or her own decision about the good people who live there or in any other place in which the government has been hijacked by extremists.  That does not make them extremists too.  There are some damn good folks who post here that are living under very trying political circumstances and are trying to make their communities better despite the extremist elements in the govt.  

    I might add, that although my comment was directed at the type of stereotyping used in those ugly comments, I believe any form of stereotyping is wrong.

    "I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~ SouthernLiberalinMD

    by gulfgal98 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:26:26 PM PDT

  •  States are pretty arbitrary agglomerations: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior, HeyMikey, high uintas

    and most states are pretty much the same, in being mixes of political ideologies.  It's really only marginal differences: subtract ten IQ points/capita from any state and it'll turn red.

    Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

    by Inland on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:27:35 PM PDT

    •  So people in red states are just idiots (4+ / 0-)

      Got it.

      Come back when you have something constructive.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:38:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's NOT INTELLIGENCE. People aren't *stupid*; (6+ / 0-)

      they have been raised in a certain culture & are working too hard to have the time to engage in actitivies that will expand their awareness & concern.

      Calling others stupid because of their conservatism is just lazy.  I don't care about when it happens to be true; I still care about people who aren't as intelligent.  They are still good & they can still benefit from engagement, let alone better enacted policies.  

      People are conservative for all kinds of reasons, & the evidence is that engagement is what works: expose people to new ideas, new culture, new thoughts, & those have an effect.  Dismissal is the one intolerable response.

      It's time to start letting sleeping dinosaurs lie, lest we join them in extinction by our consumption of them.

      by Leftcandid on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:26:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Great diary and an important reminder. (25+ / 0-)

    I live in a reliably blue state, but until 2008 the district I live in was red. With a lot of groundwork, we've turned it blue. But my town is still right on the edge of Crazyland. It is a matter of keeping our presence out there now.

    Like you, I love the part of my state where I live. It's rewarding to make it even better. Thanks for the reminder, BoiseBlue!

    "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley

    by koosah on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:28:24 PM PDT

  •  I had two modes (28+ / 0-)

    Now that I live as a retiree in blue Olympia, I am my open self.
     I was in stealth mode when I taught in a rural red community as a public school teacher.  It is such a joy now to be able to fully speak my political mind.

    Kudos to all those progressives who endure the negative  aspects of red culture while working hard to bring light into dark places....  (the racist jokes, the gun love, Christianity overload with fundamentalist censorship, homophobia, and an authoritarian love of Dick Cheney and Fox News).

    Red State America has many wonderful people but that culture is not my cup of tea.

    I am interested in learning the ways that progressive folks in Red States are winning hearts and minds.
    Regular updates from Red State progressives is important.
    This is the cutting edge of our progressive movement.

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 02:34:14 PM PDT

    •  Crystal, the common (7+ / 0-)

      thinking on Kos (in my opinion) is, that the "cutting edge" of progressivism is in states like Mass where more progressive lawmaking and social forwardness gets accomplished.
      Compare the Mass governor and the Texas governor in their response to the immigrant children.
      But I think that is a smug and wrong attitude- the cutting edges is where people have to fight hard, like here in Texas, for each Democratic Party vote.
      And the DNCC seems to share the attitude that we're just redneck religious morans, not worth a focused Spanish language million dollar campaign.
      This is a real good thought provoking diary, thanks to all who are participating.

      I buy and sell well trained riding mules and American Mammoth Jack Stock.

      by old mule on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 07:26:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I lived in Salt Lake for almost 30 years (20+ / 0-)

    Although Utah is one of the reddest states in the county, Salt Lake City is a Democratic stronghold. A blue island in a red sea.

    Play chess for the Kossacks on Chess.com. Join the site, then the group at http://www.chess.com/groups/view/kossacks.

    by rmonroe on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 03:05:23 PM PDT

  •  Thanks BB. (36+ / 0-)

    I know I've been guilty of stereotyping some of the rural and retirement communities here in AZ, just like others have stereotyped our entire state. There are liberals living in Sun City and rural AZ; the problem of course is that they're vastly outnumbered.

    But we're at a tipping point -- a possible Dem governor this year, and new young Latino leadership in Congress and other state positions. I recently saw a story in the AZ Republic about the possibility of turning the legislature blue. Now, that would be something!

    Arizona meet-up, July 27 in Phoenix. Meet Navajo! Send me Kosmail.

    by Mother Mags on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 03:12:40 PM PDT

  •  THANK YOU!! (29+ / 0-)

    I myself am more than sick of people ignoring my opinion if I mention I'm from Texas on a farm.
    Sneer all you want, but most of us in the house are Democrats; most of our animals are even donkeys. :P
    If you people will never help folk like BoiseBlue to change his state, if you only go where loud groups of people already love you, how can you ever hope to make a difference?

  •  50 state strategy is dead (26+ / 0-)

    it's really too bad. I live in a red part of a purple state and I get so damn irritated seeing empty slots on the ballot under the Democratic column. And this is a county where the Democrats have a (slight) voter registration lead over the Republicans!

    I've had some observations and even wrote a diary about it (i deleted it) but the short version is something amazing happened in 2006, started here on this site, and we haven't replicated it since, and i think some people (not kos, and not the frontpagers) are really stuck on their own sense of self-importance.

    I can't attend next year; summers have become impossible for travel for me because of work, but I am rooting for red-state liberals at next year's conference in spirit. The Arizona-bashing really turned me off. I also note what Shanikka wrote today and what others observed about this year's gathering--the conference needs a kick in the ass from different activists (and frankly, and this is just my opinion, those activists are really not amongst the people on this site) who otherwise wouldn't be heard and I think Phoenix will give it to them.

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. Russia Today=FoxNews.

    by terrypinder on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 03:19:20 PM PDT

  •  The big problem in a lot of red states (29+ / 0-)

    particularly in the South is simple: people don't vote.

    Texas has piss-poor voting rates and that's reflected in our elected officials.  There are enough people willing to rubber-stamp whatever nutcases the handful of people who actually vote in Republican primaries nominate that we wind up with a lot of nutcases in office, but there are Democrats here.  Lots of them.  The trouble is that a lot of them have been marginalized into thinking their votes don't matter because the state is going to go Republican anyway.

    The trouble is that if you go through the Texas House races, so few of the Republican seats are even challenged by the Democrats.  And by "challenged" I don't mean serious challenges, but in many cases the Libertarians do a better job of getting a name on the ballot than the Democrats do.  It's hard for people to vote for Democrats when you don't even give them the option.

    30, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 03:26:38 PM PDT

  •  Enthusiastically tipped and (11+ / 0-)

    recc'd.

    "I've always admired your tart honesty and ability to be personally offended by broad social trends." -Principal Skinner.

    by cardinal on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 03:36:00 PM PDT

  •  We need to get Shirley Ringo elected in Idaho - 1 (6+ / 0-)

    I think she can win but it's going to take some effort.

  •  Many of your neighbors are hateful stupid people.. (6+ / 0-)

    ... pointing that out, and expressing great anger towards your congressional delegation who are largely a bunch of mouf-breathing morons, is NOT expressing disdain towards people who are working hard to change things, you choose to interpret it that way.

    When people say things like "Let 'em seceed, they ain't worth it" I yell back "BULLSHIT! That's MY (insert red state name here) you're talking about, paid for in blood by our Great-Great-Great-Grandfathers, and no pack of RWNJs is going ANYWHERE with it!"  

    The rest of us not living in right-wing madhouses like Mississippi need to consider how we can HELP our fellow liberals, we can send money, we can help phone-bank, some of us have the resources to actually GO THERE and help.

    But don't tell me I'm bashing you because I complain about your idiot neighbors.

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 04:08:46 PM PDT

  •  Red state bashing here has disturbed me. (31+ / 0-)

    You've made excellent points, BoiseBlue and framed the issue very well.  Thank you!

    I generally point out that it is easy to be a liberal/progressive/Democrat in a blue state, but being one in a red state takes incredible courage.   And, as you pointed out, a boat load of work.  I do mailings, canvassing, phone banking and various other things with my local Democrat club in addition to attending all their meetings; I am going to be phone banking for Charlie Crist; and I am working on the campaign of the only Democrat and female running for city council in my district.  I've promised to walk neighborhoods with her, store and deliver yard signs, mailings, phone banking and any other things I'm able to help out with.  So, you weren't exaggerating when you wrote this:

    Because those of us in these places that you so freely mock have to do a metric ton more work on a daily basis than you do in a year.
    And we do that work gladly, but with very guarded expectations.  Every movement forward is cause for celebration.  All the things you blue state folks take for granted are beyond our wildest imagination, yet we continue to fight the good fight.  We could use your help in a multitude of ways, but most importantly we could use your understanding and encouragement rather than your derision.  

    As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. John F. Kennedy

    by JaxDem on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 04:11:31 PM PDT

    •  Haven't you wondered why the Dem Party (5+ / 0-)

      does not spend some big bucks to help you out by hiring people like they did with ACORN, to go out and register poor and other Democrat voters in selected states? Volunteering is good. I have done it. Nowadays, the Dems are up against big money and TV ads, etc. afforded by the Kochs and Adelsons. The only way to fight it is to outregister and outvote them and that can be accomplished by getting out the vote. My God, the poor outnumber the rich like crazy, and they need to vote Democrat to get rid of the RW nuts in Congress. I have been trying to contact my congressmen to try to find out why they are avoiding taking reasonable steps to win races that are winnable. So far they have not returned my calls. Am going to keep trying.

      In 2010-37% of eligible American voters voted for their U.S. Reps. (Census) The 1% is not taking this country from us. We are giving it to them.

      by Incredulousinusa on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:29:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One thing that we have noticed (4+ / 0-)

        that works in Kansas is early voting/vote by mail.  

        Early voting has turned several expected losses into Dem wins, and several landslides have been whittled down to a toothpick in this matter.

        To the left, to the left....

        by CWinebrinner on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 10:10:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We do that in Oregon-Easy as pie. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CWinebrinner, emeraldmaiden, Ckntfld

          Lots of people aren't registered, tho, so that is my goal, 'cause GOP will never let easy voting stand in their states. Too many voters will cook their goose.

          In 2010-37% of eligible American voters voted for their U.S. Reps. (Census) The 1% is not taking this country from us. We are giving it to them.

          by Incredulousinusa on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:50:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  True! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            emeraldmaiden, Incredulousinusa

            It doesn't help if the first hurdle hasn't been jumped!

            We work on filling out voter registration forms AND the early voting requests at the same time, so they can mail them off in the same envelope, or we can hand-carry them back.

            To the left, to the left....

            by CWinebrinner on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:58:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think the same guy who was head of DCCC (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              emeraldmaiden, BoiseBlue

              during the catastrophic 2010 election is still in charge. Why, I can't understand. Only 37% of eligible voters voted then. My God, that is incompetent. So many people involved in politics have their own agendas in mind, which involve making themselves prominent, doing things to their advantage. It just does not seem like Rocket Science to get enough people registered to beat the GOP. They need to quit wasting money on things they cannot control and focus on GOTV. I am a broken record on that because it is so obviously the problem in the Dem. party.

              In 2010-37% of eligible American voters voted for their U.S. Reps. (Census) The 1% is not taking this country from us. We are giving it to them.

              by Incredulousinusa on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 07:34:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Incredulousinusa

                that everyone underestimated just how disappointed progressives were by a myriad of items by that time.  I was really active on Huffington Post at that time, and I got absolutely infuriated at how many people simply REFUSED to vote in that election, because they were "boycotting to show Barack" that they didn't like whatever.  I was very glad not to be in arms reach of any of them, because we'd have both ended up bruised.

                So, they collectively shot the nation in the foot (or somewhere around 3 feet higher), and gave the Republicans their "mandate" to block the President and the Dems from doing anything of substance.  Oh, yes, and they also gave the Republicans carte blanche to redraw voting districts as jerrymandered as possible!

                I have tried to think nationally during elections, but finally decided I can make more of a difference pushing at the local level.  If Dem voters in Kansas can get Dem legislators in the seats to work with Paul Davis, we can do so much good for our state, beginning with accepting Federal Medicaid moneys (if that is still possible), and working down a growing list to overturn Brownback's crap governance.  It's a good thing he created the "Office of the Repealer" as one of his new cabinet positions-because there's a lot to repeal!

                To the left, to the left....

                by CWinebrinner on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 12:37:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  They sure showed him, alright. I am telling you- (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  CWinebrinner

                  the Democrats need to leave their old ways behind, strictly concentrate on GOTV. We can have all the clever ideas in the world and they won't be enacted because the GOP outsmarts us in voting. They have the Christian Right and they are passing laws discouraging Dem. voters. They need to register, register, register, and get poor people to vote for themselves. Most Americans do not know enough about the subtle issues, or care, but if led to water, they may drink. I am on the DCCC's websites and phones, asking them what their problem is in understanding the concept of GOTV, but this time really GOTV, or we go through all this frustration again. Thanks for the information.

                  In 2010-37% of eligible American voters voted for their U.S. Reps. (Census) The 1% is not taking this country from us. We are giving it to them.

                  by Incredulousinusa on Thu Jul 24, 2014 at 02:37:19 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Chris Van Hollen (0+ / 0-)

                was chair of the DCCC though 2010, Steve Israel was appointed in 2012.   as far as i know, Israel still holds the position.

                GOTV efforts have GOT to be key, always.

                "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

                by kj in missouri on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 12:59:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Hey JaxDem (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BoiseBlue, JaxDem, emeraldmaiden

      I cut my teeth working Clay County in '04, so I, as the man says, feel your pain.

      There is no way for a citizen of a Republic to abdicate his responsibilities. ---Edward R. Murrow

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 11:06:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow! Huge respect for your work in Clay County (3+ / 0-)

        It is no doubt one of the most conservative counties in Florida -- and there's a lot of conservative crazy in this state.  St John's county, led by Ponte Vedra Beach, has been inching up close to a tie.  It must have been, shall we say, interesting ;-)

        As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. John F. Kennedy

        by JaxDem on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:11:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, "interesting" in the chinese sense (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          emeraldmaiden, JaxDem

          but also very very satisfying. And ultimately heartbreaking.

          Tell you what, I'm never going to forget the people I worked with there. :-)

          A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 07:51:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's always really gratifying (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          emeraldmaiden, BoiseBlue, JaxDem, Ckntfld

          to meet someone who knows what it means to have worked Clay County. Ran into a union organizer once who had tried to bring the union there in, I think, the 80s.

          I don't often boast over political work, but I'm proud of the work I did there. Kind of the way I'm proud I stayed out in the sleet for hours on election day for Donna Edwards and outlasted the burly union guy who was my partner. I have a certain amount of macho when it comes to this stuff that I try to keep down, but there's a deep satisfaction in meeting a challenge, the tougher the better.

          A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 07:53:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Red Lined When There Are Winnable Elections Here (11+ / 0-)

    There are winnable elections at the Federal, State and Local levels in every red state in the country that go virtually, or literally uncontested simply because there aren't any resources from outside the immediate area that are devoted to  Democratic organization, recruitment and get out the vote efforts. Most states in the South still have Democratic registration superiority or at least relative parity with Republicans. Many don't show up on election day and many have voted Republican for the last decade or so, but not by natural inclination. There are people who vote Republican or simply steer clear of the ballot box entirely simply because Democrats don't work hard enough to earn those votes. The resources exist, but the will to deploy them doesn't.

    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.... Dylan

    by bywaterbob on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 04:31:56 PM PDT

    •  Right on, Brother! You get it! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ceebee7, elwior, emeraldmaiden, BoiseBlue

      I am trying to contact some Dems now. So far they are avoiding me (not returning calls). Personally, I think there is something going that is not exactly straight, if you know what I mean. Pretty simple concept. Register the poor and get more votes than the GOP. Otherwise, keep doing the same old thing and keep losing control of the House and Senate. Thx for your post.

      In 2010-37% of eligible American voters voted for their U.S. Reps. (Census) The 1% is not taking this country from us. We are giving it to them.

      by Incredulousinusa on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:35:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How far up the ladder (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Incredulousinusa, emeraldmaiden

        are you looking?  Are you contacting your county precinct reps, or are you contacting people in the upper state levels?
        I know I tried starting at the upper state level, and ended up being successful by moving down to my precinct committee reps.  This was in Kansas, by the way, so YMMV.

        To the left, to the left....

        by CWinebrinner on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 10:15:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  So who in the DNC is the problem? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BoiseBlue

        This is one of the best and most important diaries I have read here all year.
           This is the 50th anniversary of Freedom Summer. Where young northern liberals voted with their feet and bodies to help beat the segregationist, at great cost.
        Today Black voters alone make up 37 % of the vote in Mississippi. This muscle was just flexed to beat a Tea party Senate guy in the R primary.
      What up with progressives and the 1% folk. As the diary and comments point out there are winnable districts all over. Mississippi could go blue this year! With some real effort and fundraising from the 'Hollywood left,' to finance our political pioneers to red districts.  Georgia is also winnable with some regional footwork.    
           Residency to vote in Miss  is 30 days before the general election. Why can't folk just up and leave 'packed' Blue districts and move to cracked redistricts to assist folk who have been gerrymandered? What is the problem?      

  •  Well said, BoiseBlue! (11+ / 0-)

    I can't imagine living in a red state.  I'm in NM where many think it's blue, however, I think the reality is that it has turned purple.  I know in my purple state just how difficult it has been to deal with our conservatives, so I can't imagine how hard it would be in a red state.

    Thank you for your hard work for your state and for all of us.  

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 04:37:19 PM PDT

  •  Thank you! (15+ / 0-)

    I'm relatively agnostic about the NN in Phoenix question. But as a resident of Texas I am totally fed up with the "let them secede sooner than later" snark; and the "mouth breathing, gun toting, holy roller" stereotypes. And I'm beyond fed up with accusations, both implied and direct, that it's our fault that our state has the governance it does; that somehow we got what we deserved and if we had only worked harder or better it wouldn't be this way - talk about blaming the victim!

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 04:53:52 PM PDT

  •  righteous rant (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wasatch, manyamile, elwior, Wordsinthewind

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 04:55:33 PM PDT

  •  Not so long ago Blue Colorado (19+ / 0-)

    was reliably red. The drift left has been fun to watch. My town slipped out from under the mine owners and logging bosses, and voting for a Dem President for the first time since FDR in '08 and '12. Our remaining Republicans are the ranchers, and they arr most moderate.
    I believe the Senate race this fall will further this pattern.  

    "the northern lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see. Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee". - Robert Service, Bard of the Yukon

    by Joe Jackson on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 05:02:17 PM PDT

  •  Totally agree with this: (25+ / 0-)
    But the vitriol that was directed towards my friends in Arizona is something that I cannot let go without some confrontation.
    Arizonans aren't, as red-state Kossacks are all too aware, the only people who get dissed because bad leaders and bad laws that, ironically, they are fighting against.

    It's a minority, but it's a loud one, that continues to suggest that the nation would be better off if certain states seceded. Would their citizens be better off? No. I am utterly opposed to this sneering abandon-the-red-states trope, although I agree with Markos about NN15.

    Daily Kos is not, however, abandoning progressive Arizonans. This weekend, in fact, navajo will be appearing in the state to meet with the Tucson and Phoenix Kossacks as part of what is another step in our efforts eventually to help organize and expand Kossack groups in every congressional district in the nation.

    We recognize the value of social media and other technological tools to help us move a progressive agenda forward. But we also believe old-fashioned face-to-face meetings are a crucial part of effective organizing. Our goal is for these groups to be engaged locally, selecting their own projects, registering people to vote, GOTV, supporting progressive candidates, initiating and joining actions in coalition, including protests and "street politics."

    This is a long-term project...with 200 groups the goal for mid-2016. There are 62 now. No area, whether it's in Mississippi or the red parts of California should be ignored. And we don't plan on ignoring them.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 05:07:24 PM PDT

    •  So you are not attending NN15? (5+ / 0-)

      Sorry MB, you know how much I love you, but I want you to say it. I won't hold it against you, but a lot of people here need to hear you say it.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 05:33:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves (0+ / 0-)
      this sneering abandon-the-red-states trope
      came straight from the owner here, didn't it?

      A lot of people don't want to say that, but I'm a punk who has a hard time respecting people who treat folks like me (and all the other red staters here) with elitist condescension.  

      •  Show me one single time when I have ever... (16+ / 0-)

        ...treated red-staters here with elitism or condescension. I have consistently objected when people have said Mississippi or Texas should secede or Arizona be given back to Mexico. I have made a point for years here (and elsewhere) that even the reddest states have large numbers of blue voters in them and that it is up to progressives everywhere to work to be their allies.

        Markos has made clear in his latest diary on this subject that the site is not abandoning red states but devoting DKos resources to helping progressives in those states.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:14:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, he's sending a check. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          manyamile

          I'm talking about actions.  Showing up would've been one of those.

          You didn't answer this one:

          this sneering abandon-the-red-states trope
          came straight from the owner here, didn't it?
          This came from you.
          I agree with Markos about NN15.
          Cool.  Say whatever you like, but your actions have already spoken clearly.

          I find your whole post kinda condescending.  "We won't come and pitch in with y'all, but we'll stay and touch with some of the locals."

          A huge reason we have trouble getting traction for the left in places like this (AZ) is because the people around here see you thinking of us (your alleged allies) as second class citizens.  Makes it hard to sell progressivism to the masses, when our "leadership" says it's too scared (or whatever) to come help  us out.

          I dunno.  Think on it.  

          I think y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.  I wish you were.

          But I'm just a punk from one of those not worth going to places.

          •  I don't speak for Markos, so why not ask him... (12+ / 0-)

            ...if what he said amounts to sneering and abandoning red states?

            If you're going to say what I have written is condescending, quote me, don't fabricate a quote about what you imagined I said.

            Yes, my actions do speak clearly. I have made it clear I don't see you or others in red states as second-class citizens. It's the powers-that-be those states who view you that way.

            I'm working together with navajo to help build new and expanding existing Kossack groups in Arizona (where her relatives live and where she will be meeting with you this weekend) as well other states, with considerable emphasis on red states and red areas of purple and blue states. That's not sneering or condescending; it's the opposite.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:16:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  He spoke loud and clear for himself (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              manyamile

              and you support that.  Pretty simple.  He opted out.  Y'all aren't gonna show.

              So I take it you'll be making some calls, sending some emails.  That's cool.  Isn't that what you'd do anyway whether NN came up or not?  But y'all (meaning the entity know as Dkos) aren't gonna show up at the big ticket progressive visibility event (after showing at 14 others in "safer" places).  That's what speaks loudest, what you choose to do.

              Like, y'know, what your sig line says.

              No, you don't sneer in words, but the owner (with your expressed support) already sneered, didn't he?  He opted out.  He can't bear to bring himself to a place so foul as this.  His contempt for us isn't very much different from the powers that be around here (they wouldn't come to NN either (not that anyone would want them to).  Someone who really cared would've held their nose and come anyway for a few days out of solidarity.  Like those legendary freedom riders went to scary places to combat prejudice.

              I'm sure you are a wonderful and committed person.  But y'all just took a crap on Arizona progressives (and by extension other red state progressives) and you know you did.

              You should be ashamed of yourselves.  I wish you were.

              •  Please don't pretend you know what my activism... (11+ / 0-)

                ...consists of.

                Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:56:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Check this out (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  manyamile
                  Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                  by Meteor Blades on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:56:36 PM MST

                  If you can tell me what I believe, why can't I do that too?  I'm not even telling you what you believe, I telling you what y'all have chosen (not) to do is telling me about what you think of us down here in scary land.

                  I have no idea what your activism consists of, but I do know where you aren't gonna be next year.

                  Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

                  I know I'm making you mad and that isn't what I'm out to do.  All I'm trying to do is show you what your choices feel like to us.  Most other folks are more polite or more intimidated or whatever to talk back to you.  I'm just a punk (here for politics, not to socialize), so I'm giving it a try.

                  Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.  I wish you were.

              •  Hey, remember our recent conversation? (6+ / 0-)

                I understand why you're angry, but let's not take it out on people who don't deserve our ire.

                MB doesn't deserve our ire. He's a good man who has always shown support when it comes to people like us. Don't bash him in my diary, please.

                P.S. I am not a crackpot.

                by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:01:56 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No offense, really (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  manyamile

                  But I'm not bashing him, just expressing my opinion.  Lip service (which is what we're getting here) is not support.  I understand kos and MB are the big cheeses around here and I'm just me, but I think I have a right to say what I think about this.  

                  FWIW, I don't think he had much substance in that argument --when the final response before disappearing is "Get off my lawn!!!!" you can usually assume the person yelling that doesn't have a whole lot to say for themselves.

                  This really is shameful, y'know?  Not just bad politics (which it is), but hideous indifference to the struggle going on here.

                  We risk life and limb down here (yeah we do!) and the yuppie from Berkeley can't be bothered to stop by for a few days to show some real support?  How can anybody respect that?  It's a flat out disgrace.

                  This isn't a difference of opinion along the lines of "I think Bernie Sanders is cooler than Elizabeth Warren" or even "I don't think OWS is using effective tactics" or "we shouldn't pass any healthcare at all without a public option".  That's all just normal political debate.

                  I don't know anything about MB (other than his big status), but if he's down with this embarrassing display of hypocrisy (whether it's coming from egotism or cowardice) and feels good about defending it.  How am I spozed to respect that?

                  I wasn't around back in the days of real progressive heroes like the freedom riders who went south to help fight segregation and I wouldn't claim to know how to equate the two situations.  But they aren't that different, they're both about apartheid in america.  But in one case people showed courage and in this one they make rationalizations.

                  Nobody was asking kos or MB to walk the back country in the brutal heat to leave food and water for migrants, or blockade the deportation buses, or anything but to go to a fucking hotel in a major american city for a few days.

                  I'm assuming this whole thing happened because kos didn't get his way with the NN board (who laudably IMO decided to make a small gesture of solidarity by coming to where the struggle actually is --still a safe distance from the border, no checkpoints to go through like there are down here) and threw a hissy fit about it.  Adam B said he'd post a diary about it, but I haven't seen one.  All I can do is guess.  But that seems pretty likely.  So, like a brat, he took his ball and went home.

                  If MB et al want to validate that, that's their biz.  But I'm not gonna respect anybody for it.  Nothing personal in that, just pure disgust.  NN sets up a way for people who call themselves progressives to show some solidarity and support for those of us on the front lines of the very worst human rights issue of our time in this country and they can't be bothered to show up because the dude who owns us feels insulted that he didn't get things his way.

                  Shameful.  They (whoever the inner circle of DKos is comprised of) do deserve our ire.

                  I'm not so much angry about this as overwhelmed with contempt for those who made this decision and their enablers.  
                  I don't have it in me to say this is OK.  It just isn't.

                  Damn, this got long.  Sorry about rambling.  I'm usually better organized.  I should be sleeping but it's really hot tonight and I can't get there.

                •  Would have been nice if you said that in the diary (0+ / 0-)
                  •  If I said that MB is a good guy in my diary? (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Urizen, manyamile, emeraldmaiden

                    Why?

                    First of all, let me state that I understand kos' stance on NN15 being held in Arizona. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. And that goes for everyone that has decided to follow kos's lead.

                    I carry no ill will towards any of you.

                    I didn't want this to turn into a diary about NN15. Naive on my part, yes, but I don't think any more fights about it are constructive.

                    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

                    by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:31:09 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  This (0+ / 0-)

                      "I understand why you're angry, but let's not take it out on people who don't deserve our ire."

                      Your one sided discussion of vitriol really put me off.

                      •  Well, I'm put off by you making a dozen (4+ / 0-)

                        comments about NN15 when I specifically just asked someone to not turn it into that.

                        I'm trying to be civil and ask someone to not chastise people for their own decisions. I'm not going to be a jerk about it just to suit you.

                        If you feel that is one-sided, so be it.

                        P.S. I am not a crackpot.

                        by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:50:06 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I'm making comment about your diary (0+ / 0-)

                          and your statements about vitriol.

                          It ill behooves you, imo. to chastise about vitriol aimed at your Arizona friends while completely ignoring the vitriol some have aimed at those of us who will not go to Arizona.

                          No doubt your Arizona friends will cheer you. But I assume your goal si to get more than that, to get people to stop the vitriol.

                          I've explained to you what I don't like about your diary just as you explained that you don;t lke vitriol directed at your Arizona friends.

                          My personal view is your call would be more effective if it was NOT one sided.

                          But of course how you choose to deliver your message is your choice.

                          I think you made a poor one.
                           

                          •  the numbers aren't even close. (7+ / 0-)

                            I've seen one person being uncivil, 1....there have been a few who were hurt and more than that disagree but not in a uncivil way. And no replying to a nasty comment isn't the same as being nasty initially.

                            On the other hand there have been dozens of people making the nasty comments about all Arizonans.

                            Why are you so invested in beating down anyone who doesn't agree with you?

                            I stated from the first comment I made it wasn't about kos' decision nor yours.  It's about the overwhelming nastiness that emerges every chance it gets against anyone that can be painted as "other".........That is the problem and if we actually want to grow the party and our influence, it's completely counter productive......

                            It's bigger than this decision or any boycott, at least here, as it not only tears off good productive members, it chases away new members who read shit like it and don't want to deal with that from their own side.

                            Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                            I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                            Emiliano Zapata

                            by buddabelly on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 09:49:37 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Even if that were true (0+ / 0-)

                            and I don;t think it is, so what?

                            Let's condemn ALL the vitriol.

                            Why is doing that so fucking hard?

                          •  We have, you haven't. (8+ / 0-)

                            show me my vitriolic comment. Sorry but I don't see pat yourself on the back as vitriol, snark yes, bitter snark even but vitriol.....now calling someone a teabagging scumbag who licks arpaio's ass....that's a little vitriolic,  I think vermin comes under the heading of vitriol.....

                            You are so wrapped in righteous that you don't even see all the comments from other red staters, not zonies, thanking BB for bringing this long term problem to the fore.......Not once did you, as MB did,  say that you understood, that red state bashing here really is ugly and at times out of control.  You just jumped in swinging, on the side of the bashers.

                            The problem here for the umpteenth time is the 2 minute hate that erupts any time it gets a chance, it's ugly, it's destructive and it will kill our chances of building a broad based movement here if we allow the broad brush bullshit that we've seen over the last few days.....

                            Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                            I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                            Emiliano Zapata

                            by buddabelly on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 10:32:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You have? (0+ / 0-)

                            The diarist has?

                            Eh, no, you haven't

                            No she hasn't.

          •  Actually, I don't think MB is sneering at the red (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BoiseBlue, emeraldmaiden

            state Dems.

            I think he's trying to find a compromise between expressing dislike for the law of AZ and supporting those in AZ who are fighting the good fight.

            I don't know that he's right to take that position, but whatever I might say about it, I don't see condescension there. At least not from MB.

            There is no way for a citizen of a Republic to abdicate his responsibilities. ---Edward R. Murrow

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 11:12:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Disagree (3+ / 0-)

              NN sets up a way for people who call themselves progressives to show some solidarity and support for those of us on the front lines of the very worst human rights issue of our time in this country and they can't be bothered to show up.  

              They should be ashamed of themselves.  

              I'll bet the freedom riders are puking in their graves.

              I spoze MB has to have kos' back for whatever reason, but I thought his defense of it was weak and condescending: "we aren't gonna show up, but we'll do some networking for you".

              Then he yells at me to get off his lawn.  (Which I thought was pretty funny.)

              I doubt he's the problem, I figure that's the millionaire in Berkeley, but he's trying to justify this and it's not really justifiable.  Not to anyone who cares.

              It's kinda like that line from (I think) Gentleman's Agreement
              "I have nothing against jews, I just don't want to eat with them."

              What kos and MB are essentially saying to us here in AZ is "we're horrified by what's going on in your neighborhood but don't ask us to show up there and help out."

              Y'know, like kos is all about wringing his hands over it, but when an opportunity arises to demonstrate some solidarity with those of us who really risk ourselves in this struggle he won't do it.

              Behavior like this is why so many good people hate liberals and end up becoming republicans.  Kos won't come here to enlarge NN and support the people who actually deal face to face with this human rights horror show, but he spent $255 on amazon to get supplies for the border kids.  I'm glad he did that, but it gives a lot of weight to rightwing meme about "limousine liberals".

              In any case I have no personal animosity toward MB (or anybody else), but I think this is a shameful travesty of what progressivism ought to be like and he's throwing his weight behind that.  Maybe in every other instance he's a shining paragon of awesomeness, but this time . . . nope, not even close.

              •  I think you need to look a little closer to home (0+ / 0-)

                for examples of what might make people dislike "liberals".

                "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

                by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 07:03:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  You know what? (4+ / 0-)

                You've got some good points.

                All I was saying is, my guess is MB doesn't feel any contempt and I don't think he was intending to show any. However, he is defending a policy that some people here, including people I respect, see as profoundly condescending.

                I admit I'm still somewhat torn about it, and have talked to CenPhx about that--I do usually believe in geographical boycotts, like for instance I haven't spent money in SC since the day I stopped off at an IHOP off I-95 and realized to my horror that the restaurant was segregated. (Although maybe it should be IHOP I'm boycotting. Or both IHOP and SC!) But I also believe firmly in local knowledge, and when people in the fight on the scene say "This isn't helping. This is what would help," I generally listen to them.

                This is a tougher issue than it looks for folks (not so much Markos and the FP, but the rank and file around here) because people do want to do the right thing, and it's hard to see what that is. I think it's been made harder by Markos being so black-and-white about it, because the issue here is not whether we support these ugly policies or not:  the issue is methodological--what should we do about it? That's the issue. I don't think anybody here supports Arpaio or SB1070.

                If we had been allowed to have Caucus here, that's exactly the sort of issue that would have been discussed in a Caucus diary: where people agree on the issue but disagree on the means.

                What that ultimately means is that nobody is being ethically horrible, at least not on purpose; people agree on the goal and on taking a stand against certain ugly racist authoritarian not to say tyrannical policies. I feel like the way the issue was initially put forth on here has caused people who are in agreement on the issue to tear each other apart. Of course, it doesn't help that once the issue was broached, it became an excuse for the standard elitist lambasting of everybody who lives in a geographic region.

                A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:07:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •   Count me as one who reads and appreciates (5+ / 0-)

          Meteor Blade, your writing and thinking on issues.
          I think that the personal and the professional keep getting intertwined here, in comments and responses. It is understanddible and often difficult to track in  others comments as well as within ourselves. All of these things involve emotion as well as intellect.
          I could see where it might be  complex for a staffer , who would also have both personal and professional opinions.
          (not sure if employer is the right word, using it because I am not sure what a better word is and using it for the purposes of analogy .
           In that analogy,
          An employer has taken a personal position on an issue.

          That employer states that he is extending his personal position to include using resources of his staff and organization , to reflect and amplify his own personal position.

          So I imagine that no matter how one feels personally, as an employee, or as a contracted affiliate,one has  loyalties and duties to not cross a line the employer has established for his organization.
          And of course I could imagine that an employee also has personal loyalties to the employer as well as on both sides of the line drawn in the sand by the employer.

          That is one of the tangled threads I sense in this whole thing

          •  I think you're right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CS in AZ

            But I don't work for Dkos.  I'm a customer, Dkos makes money off the traffic here (including mine).  This is a business and it's helped to make him wealthy.

            About this issue I'm a disgusted customer.

            My politics don't really jive with "the boss said this so agree with him or STFU".  I don't feel obligated to respect a boss who feels that way either.

            I really hope those who are supporting kos because he's their boss or feudal lord (or whatever the relationship is) are at least a little bit ashamed of themselves in private.  That's between them and their consciences.

            If they truly believe boycotting NN is the right thing to do, I don't think they're very admirable progressives.  They have every right to think what they want (just like the tea bagger across the street from me), but I'm not gonna pretend I think it's good.  I argue with my neighbor pretty often, we can both live with that and always say "hey, how ya doing" when we see each other.  Neither of us respects the other's politics.  On this one I don't respect kos' (or MBs or anybody else that thinks boycotting NN is really the right thing to do --to me it's shameful.)

      •  I'm from a red state and as I've read the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Morgan Sandlin

        comments to this diary, yours are the first that have any nasty attitude or "sneering" in them.  You get treated the way you treat people.  I get it that you are upset that you personally aren't going to be able to benefit from the full NN experience being in your backyard.  I have yet to see you, or anyone from AZ insisting that NN take place in a non-labor red state.  Don't the progressives in those states need it just as much?  Don't the progressives in those states "deserve" it the same way you think you deserve it?  Is there no line that shouldn't be crossed when it comes to the organization?  Or do you just think people should come to AZ because it benefits you personally.  I really don't get the sense of entitlement that your comments in this diary and others exhibit.  Some few people on this site made disparaging comments about AZ and they shouldn't have.  They make them about my state and the region in general all of the time.  In fact, there seems to be total agreement that the southern region of the US will never "deserve" to host NN until they are unionized.  I haven't seen anywhere in any comments that indicates that bothers you at all.  Attacking someone like MB who is actively working to make your region a more progressive place because you won't personally be able to benefit from a social meet up is simply counterproductive.  And your comparison of freedom riders to attendees at a conference is insulting.  Not a single one of the freedom riders came to the south to throw back some drinks, network and have a little fun while they made good contacts.  If you want real freedom riders to come to Arizona then work for it.  But don't try to pretend that you are entitled to have a big party in your own backyard by comparing it to freedom riders.

        "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

        by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:58:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think committed progressives (0+ / 0-)

          should go where they can do some good.  Freedom riders went to jim crow states and helped out.  Wobblies went to kingdoms of the mine owners and built the labor movement.

          Yeah, nobody's asking dkos to anything more than spend a few days in hotel (nothing anywhere near as courageous as the wobblies or the freedom riders did), but Dkos can't even do that for us.  He (and his vassals) are boycotting it!

          Rah rah, sis boom bah.

          •  And none of the Freedom Riders or (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Morgan Sandlin, gramofsam1

            Wobblies had their social networking conferences in the south or in mining towns.  There's a difference between supporting progressives by going to a place and directly working for change and simply spending entertainment dollars in a place that enrich the very people you don't agree with.  Expecting Markos to do that because it will magically make things better for progressives just doesn't make that much sense to me.  And it sounds a lot more like you are saying Markos should come to AZ so that AZ progressives can have a better experience than they would have if DKos doesn't come.  Except for a sparsely attended rally in Detroit I don't think NN does much for local progressives that can't be done remotely.

            "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

            by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 09:51:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Because it was so very little to ask (0+ / 0-)

              only makes refusing to do it that much more shameful (and insulting to people who risk themselves every day in this struggle).  This the first time they (Dkos) have boycotted NN.  Kinda makes a statement, that, don'tcha think?

              Gotta say I think the argument you're trying to make here is really lame.  Kinda like "that homeless panhandler only asked for a quarter, so I decided it wasn't worth reaching into my pocket."

    •  Thanks for this (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BoiseBlue, avsp, stellaluna, shesaid

      I find myself in the position of both opposing NN15 being in Arizona and disliking how certain folks treat Southerners and others who live in Republican-led states as lesser than. It's complex.

      Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. - Ta-Nehisi Coates

      by moviemeister76 on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:07:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of people write stupid things (0+ / 0-)

      I'm sorry but the ignoring of the vitriol aimed at those who will not be going to Arizona is completely ignored by this diary and I find that very off putting.

      •  I'm sorry that I didn't address that to your (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        manyamile

        satisfaction. I didn't want to turn this into a diary about NN.

        P.S. I am not a crackpot.

        by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:36:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why? (4+ / 0-)

        Why is it necessary that this diary address your perception of being attacked?

        1) The diary is clearly inspired by, but does not directly address any of the issues around NN15.
        2) No diarist offers a real balanced and comprehensive opinion. They don't have to.
        3)   I don't think it is practical to have a "who was more of a dick" contest.

        Is it possible to have conversations about being more effective without having to address everyone who might be hurt or offended, as well as conflating the diary with the comments? Can we be civil and courteous and encourage civility without demanding that the "other side" acknowledge their harm?

        Why argue about this?

        "Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul." --Ed Abbey

        by progreen on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 03:31:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It mustn;t do anything (0+ / 0-)

          It can be as one sided as the diarist wants it to be.

          Just as  get to say what I thin about that as well.

          If your diary is about vitriol and you ignore the vitriol your friends are directing then you don;t have a moral leg to stand on

          Think as you wih, but I guarantee you a lot of people this diary was supposed to be directed at (non Red State Dems) took it like I did.

          If you don;t care, you don't care.

          But don;t expect strong solidarity in return.

    •  Boycott/not a boycott/not going/sorta going (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emeraldmaiden, BoiseBlue

       I think some of the subsequent battle of Arizona, was in part  the result of timing. I do believe that had timing and public reveal played out differently in many of the past days' decisions on NN, the rancor seen in the threads might have also differed in tone and volume.
      Boise blue states that this is not about NN, but I think it is, because it was the decision to locate NN in AZ which unleashed  a boatload of rancor towards Arizona, a 'red state', and the decision for kos  the entity not to come to AZ  which unleashed a small but passionate canoe of AZ defenders. I am not interested In rehashing that argument, but  I think  BB' s eloquent diary is at least in part motivated by the  dialogue this past week.

      I can empathize and share some of urizen's feelings. for myself,  I think the timing has been a real factor. In just a few days 1. It was announced that a progressive  conference was coming to Arizona.2. Kos announced his personal refusal to come to AZ conference but also announced he was also not sending the resources of the organization. .
      For those of us who were thrilled by the first announcement, the moment was like Bullwinkle pulling a rabbit out of a hat, no wait, agggghhh! It's a lion!!!!. what ensued was often ugly and felt like we had  suddenly been put out on the rack for all to scorn. Not that we aren't use to it, but it was a big, sudden, surprising , dose.
      That type of scorn is what BB alludes to well.. It was just uncorked and it hit us suddenly .
      Then, I think about the same time, came the rah, rah stuff about ' Kos, the entity', staging  one day mini conferences and networking , spreading resources in...Arizona, among other places.

      I think it not too hard to understand why some of us would  think , well, what is it going to be? ( again, to kos the entity, not  the person) are you on board , or not?  Are you saying AZ is unsafe?  And if so, why send staffers?
      The line in the sand seems a bit mussed and difficult to comprehend.

      Now, had the 'one day conference, sending direct resources to us 'occurred, say a few months ago, there would be no connection..it would be all good and well appreciated. My point is, it has been a bit of a train wreck, partly due to timing. it is what it is.

      I hope you can understand why there might be pressure applied for clarification, though, and that some who have applied pressure and asked questions, also have valid  points..  There does remain a conflict at the foundation of how some of us , who thought we were gung-ho to pitch in with the DK effort, now have to decide how to participate in NN. For myself , if I can do that, i would like it do be a clear participation, without the conflicts  and drama sparked by this whole 'boycott/it's not a boycott/not going/well sort of going' week and the things it unleashed.
       Just my thoughts

  •  Please keep up the good, hard work. When we (5+ / 0-)

    demonize the red states it's terribly unfair.  I'm boycotting Florida because of Trayvon Martin but that doesn't mean I don't love Key West and Miami Beach.  I'm boycotting Arizona for any number of anti-racist reasons but that doesn't mean I don't love Tucson.  I've never been in Texas except a stopover at Dallas/Fort Worth airport on the way to Tucson, but I realize that Louie Gohmert doesn't speak for Texas.  If only we could airlift Austin, San Antonio, and Houston.  Look at it this way:  if we survive the next 20 years, all states will be blue and the Republican Party will be a historic memory.  If we don't survive it will be because there aren't enough people like you, BoiseBlue.

    Lost Tom. Lost Charlie. Can't read (Paul Newman, 'The Left Handed Gun')

    by richardvjohnson on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 05:16:02 PM PDT

  •  Amen (8+ / 0-)

    You're doing great stuff there no doubt.

    Muskegon is deep blue, but we're the only blue county in West Michigan, home of extreme Dutch Reform religious zealotry.......my congressman is Bill Huizenga one of the Tea Party darlings for opposing everything. When I helped a Democratic opponent challenge him, there was ZERO support. Democrats just threw in the towel and called the Dem candidate the "sacrificial lamb"

    I can see why they don't want to spend CASH in this race...but to overtly disparage the Dem campaigns is idiotic.

  •  Now would be a good time for help (7+ / 0-)

    Idaho Republicans are in a bit of a clusterfuck.

  •  I live in the blue city of Oakland (7+ / 0-)

    And yet I have friends here who like to watch Fox and put up with being surrounded by liberals. Ive driven 60 miles to the east in the red Central Valley and seen stores with signs that say only Rush Fans allowed and heard right wing noise pollution emanating loudly from radios. There's no escaping the indoctrinated righties. All we can do is help them see how they're being used to destroy our democracy.

  •  BEST.DIARY.EVAH! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ceebee7, BoiseBlue

    Thank you. Hugs. Thank you.

  •  The issue has nothing to do with RED states (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Armando

    being red or blue states being blue.

    It has to do with a law that jeopardizes the safety of people who do not look Anglo and who do not have an Arizona license.

    The argument being used in this diary is just like a Fox segment that deliberately misleads/misinforms the audience about an issue and then argues against a side that doesn't exist except in their own propaganda.

    Here is the point: IT IS NOT A BOYCOTT. Kos made the decision to not participate because he felt doing would ENDANGER PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WHITE ANGLO.  (As another aside, I'd really like to know how many actual racial minorities are in this diary helping you promote your non-point...probably not a whole lot.)

    Go if you want to go. Kos is not saying you should stay home...he is saying HE and HIS should stay home because IT.IS.NOT.SAFE.

    All in all I can't believe people rec'd this diary. It's built on a totally false dichotomy and richly filled with implied insults against this site's founder, as if the diarist is somehow a better activist than Kos. Think about that for a minute.

    Ridiculous and pathetic.

    •  Try reading the diary. It's not about NN15. (5+ / 0-)

      "It's the (expletive) 21st century man. Get over it." - David Ortiz

      by grubber on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:51:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I know it's hard- but just try (5+ / 0-)

      Read the diary before you post a comment and make an ass of yourself.

      This has nothing to do with NN15, and where NN15 was mentioned I supported kos' decision.

      Is it really that hard to read a diary before you comment about it? I don't think so. I think it would save some egg on face moments, really.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:06:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I must respectfully disagree, this is abotu NN15 (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stellaluna, Armando, pasadena beggar

        Individuals here that seriously dismiss entire states because of their politics are few and far between.

        This is, in my opinion, about people equating people NOT attending NN15 as some sort of disparagement of all of Arizona...and its not.

        The comments always come back to the non-attendance of NN15....even you wanted Meteor Blades to make an open statement in this diary regarding his position.

        Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

        by Morgan Sandlin on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 03:31:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, they are not few & far between. (6+ / 0-)

          Such comments are commonplace.  They are probably more visible to those for whom they carry more barbed weight.

          NN15 may be the subcontext for this discussion, but this discussion is about a convenient & parochial mindset here; the mindset that might say it likes the 50 state strategy, but in reality could give a shit.

          It's time to start letting sleeping dinosaurs lie, lest we join them in extinction by our consumption of them.

          by Leftcandid on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:34:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Please don't tell me what my diary is about (5+ / 0-)

          It is about treating red-state citizens with respect. It's not about NN15- that issue, to me, is moot.

          The comments about Arizona during the arguments about NN15 spurred this, but this is a diary I could have written a hundred times before.

          As far as my question to MB, I did want to know if he was attending because I had not seen a statement from him on the matter and I did want to know where he stood- a lot of people do.

          Check out any diary about a red state and read the comments. There are always plenty of examples of people writing whole states off. And don't miss out on the comments when natural disasters happen in red states- those are always a hoot. Plenty of comments that implicitly or explicitly say we'd be better off without those yahoos, anyway.

          P.S. I am not a crackpot.

          by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:16:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yep, I have to disagree, as well. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Armando, Morgan Sandlin

          Writing

          Because the arguments over NN15 have exposed the marginalization of red states in a way that I never could before, and I want to rip the proverbial band-aid off that wound and expose the shit out of it.

          First of all, let me state that I understand kos' stance on NN15 being held in Arizona. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. And that goes for everyone that has decided to follow kos's lead.

          I carry no ill will towards any of you.

          But the vitriol that was directed towards my friends in Arizona is something that I cannot let go without some confrontation.

          and then claiming that the diary isn't about that --is a lot like yanking the cat's tail and then crying you didn't do anything to the cat to make it bite you like it did.
      •  Arizona was mentioned in your diary (0+ / 0-)
      •  From your diary (0+ / 0-)
        First of all, let me state that I understand kos' stance on NN15 being held in Arizona. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. And that goes for everyone that has decided to follow kos's lead.

        I carry no ill will towards any of you.

        But the vitriol that was directed towards my friends in Arizona is something that I cannot let go without some confrontation.

        •  Do you think repetition makes you right? (4+ / 0-)

          You really are a bully...

          You know the number of vitriolic comments here is not close to what we are talking about...there is one person here giving you any shit....

          What a shame, 1 person and you have to bull through the thread trying to blame BB for shit she didn't do...

          This started because of the NN/Az issue, this diary and every comment I've made on the subject are about the shit aimed at anyone other......

          I have not once see you say the vitriol was wrong as MB did, all you've done is come in and blame us zonie kossaks....

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 10:12:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm writing words (0+ / 0-)

            that many of you don't like.

            Your calling that bullying don't make it so.

            Your' attempt to "bully" me by saying I know your math is right (when I do not, in fact I have total doubt about it) is not persuasive.

            BB wrote what she wrote, and it did not include a condemnation of vitriol from Arizona friends against those of us who will not go to Arizona.

            Some of that vitriol has continued IN THIS THREAD. Any claims of hijacking there? Not from ou not from anoy of you.

            You don't like hat I'm saying. I get that.

            But it does not make it bulliyng.

            And as a call for solidarity I find it poor and offputting.

            That's my opinion and if that is bullying, then so be it.

            •  Bullshit Armando (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              emeraldmaiden

              I stepped in when I saw vitriol against MB. That wasn't enough for you. I've stated that I condemn vitriol from both sides. That's not enough for you.

              Again, you can keep repeating this over and over but as I already said, this isn't a fight I'm interested in.

              And I don't think you're a bully, I think you're just stubborn.

              P.S. I am not a crackpot.

              by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:31:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  The 50 state strategy (4+ / 0-)

    is a win now with the ACA and women's rights.

    A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

    by onionjim on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 07:26:46 PM PDT

  •  municipal government (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emeraldmaiden

    too. Holy shit. Watch the RWNJ get on local boards, school boards and advisory committees, spew and advocate for dominionist, racist and sexist agendas. Then watch them scrub their facebook pages, suddenly love "the gays", run for city council and win. Then more RWNJ facebook posts until they mostly scrub them for a run in the state legislature all the while looking convincing with a semi-automatic rifle = former republican who is now an "Independent" or "Libertarian".

  •  Thanks for this diary, BB. (4+ / 0-)

    Until I "discovered" Wendell Berry's works, thanks to Bill Moyers, last December, I was not aware that people like Berry had been warning and calling out for DECADES about the destruction Big Ag was systematically wreaking on the country... on the small farm, on the very food sources that used to feed most of America, and how the whole corporate agricultural system was destroying the planet's food supply.

    In my ignorance, I casually counted rural folks as uniformly backward, narrow-minded and all the other pejorative adjectives used to stereotype those who choose to live a rural life -- both from family heritage, and also those who've made a conscious decision to move (back) to the country.  I was -- IMO -- a certain type of a typical liberal Democrat, I'm afraid... and I'm afraid my actions and attitudes and those of similar Democrats over time helped alienate probably millions of rural folks who got tired of being referred to as ignorant, as "hicks," as this and that.  No wonder so many have decided that liberals are big government suckies and look to FoxNews as their friend.

    BB, you're doing vital work.  I'm sorry to have discovered MY OWN close-mindedness so late.  Hopefully many of those in rural areas can be located and convinced that the far right propaganda regarding Democrats is false, and that Dems are realizing how important folks in the country are to the planet... one person at a time, if that's what it takes.  We need the rural folks -- whether they're rural by heritage or by conscious, "enlightened" choice who've perhaps changed their life styles and want to be, e.g., small scale farmers, small business owners, etc., they are VITAL TO AMERICA and are and should be valued by Democrats for what they do.  Small scale farming used to feed America, it is the only way to sustainably provide enough food for the world, and formerly closed-minded Dems like me need to wake up to that fact.

    More power to you.

    How children dance to the unlived lives of their parents. Rilke

    by ceebee7 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 08:53:11 PM PDT

    •  I would love to see our party take up the cause (5+ / 0-)

      of small Ag.

      The farmers here are a diverse group, there's really no way to stereotype them; some are birthers, some are hardcore dems.

      But you know what they mostly all have in common? None of them are ignorant about climate change. They are on the front lines and live and breathe it.

      There is a canal that runs through this area that has always supplied the farmers with water. It's run dry, and we all lamented the dead trout that lay at the bottom of the canal.

      But the farmers took a big hit, obviously, when they lost their biggest water supply.

      We as a party should be here championing them and trying to help, but we're not. Wanna turn a red state blue? I have a few ideas on how we can do that.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 12:16:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The national party committees... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, sfinx

    ...and all the state parties should adopt this non-negotiable mantra: Let no Democratic ballot line go unfilled.  We will never win the races we don't even pretend to contest.  Even here in MA there are a handful of GOP legislators who will walk into re-election due to the lack of a Democratic challenger, which especially in a state like MA drives me nuts.  Candidate recruitment must be a top priority at all levels.

  •  Thanks for this, BB (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, terrypinder, emeraldmaiden

    I think the "red state/blue state" language (and pictures) are a big part of the problem. There are no red states or blue states, certainly nothing like people (including some in this comment thread) seem to be referring to when they talk about states or regions as "pure red", "solid blue", etc. Even the maps that try to give a better representation usually distort this, showing as pure red states that had e.g. a 20-point margin of victory for the Rs. In an election a 20-point advantage is overwhelming, yes, but let's not forget that that corresponds to a 40-60 split. In any other part of life, we consider that a pretty even division.

    Here is a map you will probably remember - I liked this one because it actually uses each red or blue pixel to represent a certain number of R or D votes. No red or blue states here.
    Even better, check this one out. This reconfigures as you zoom in, until at the highest zoom level a red dot corresponds to 10 individual votes for Romney. This one is fascinating to delve into, and makes even clearer what a fiction all the red-blue talk is.)

    Babylon system is the vampire... ~Bob Marley

    by sfinx on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 10:10:38 PM PDT

  •  When I think of Idaho (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, Morgan Sandlin, manyamile

    I still think of the late Sen. Frank Church.

    And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

    by Pale Jenova on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 10:23:57 PM PDT

  •  As a former Florida liberal (5+ / 0-)

    totally there with you.

    The Red State liberals are the hardest workers and toughest customers around. I've walked blocks when it wasn't clear it was altogether safe to do so, b/c people were driving cars around that had "Kerry/Bin Laden 2004" written on their back windshields in soap. I've known the pleasure of finding nearly 20,000 votes for Kerry in a district that hadn't run a Democratic candidate for a local office in over ten years--when we were asked for 15,000.

    A person won't understand, can't understand, unless he's worked in such a county, either its dangers or its joys.

    At the end of the day, I prefer them to the dangers and pleasures of the blue machine state in which I live.

    There is no way for a citizen of a Republic to abdicate his responsibilities. ---Edward R. Murrow

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Jul 22, 2014 at 10:59:10 PM PDT

  •  This isn't about not going into red states.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Armando, JackND, pasadena beggar

    I live in your red state at the moment Boise, and I will regularly go or donate to causes or candidates in red states...

    This is about commerce and a convention in a state where people can be stopped for being brown and made to prove their right to exist.

    Those are states you work in, they aren't states that you go to spend your vacation dollars.

    Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

    by Morgan Sandlin on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 03:11:30 AM PDT

  •  What I'm tired of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stellaluna, Armando

    are the strawman arguments about Markos' decision not to go to NN15 like the arguments presented in this diary.  From people that simply refuse to get it.

    Markos' (and many others) decision to not go to AZ has nothing to do with whether or not progressives in AZ need help.  To frame it that way as you have is disingenuous at best.

    Further, to say this devoid of the surrounding context is pure demagoguery:

    But the vitriol that was directed towards my friends in Arizona is something that I cannot let go without some confrontation.
    I haven't seen all of the commentary from your friends in AZ but if it in any way resembles the commentary of AZ Kossacks in Armando's diary, the vitriol was more than likely push back against the vitriol coming from the AZ Kossacks that can't see the forest for the trees and that have said some terribly shameful things in condemnation of Markos' and others' decision not to go to AZ.

    I can't help but think what if Markos and Armando were black and NN15 was being held in a state where lynchings were still a thing?  Would people from that state still be badgering them over their decision not to go to that state?  Would they be saying that black leaders in that state were no longer calling for a boycott of their state over lynchings despite the fact that they were still occurring and ask why Markos and Armando were selfishly waging a solo boycott?

    To belittle Markos' and Armando's very real concerns over their personal safety if they go to AZ as nothing more than a cheap political stunt is beyond offensive and I am embarrassed to see those arguments coming from so-called "progressives."  Anyone that tries to make those arguments deserves all the vitriol they get and then some.

    Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

    by democracy inaction on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:48:55 AM PDT

    •  I simply don't get the sense of entitlement from (2+ / 0-)

      some of the people from AZ about this.  If the only metric for deciding where a freaking conference is going to be is that progressives have to work harder in those states then there are a lot of places that are "entitled" to host NN.  The vast majority of those states where progressives are a minority and are fighting against overwhelming odds are also non-union states.  Yet it seems to be a given that no matter how hard it is for progressives in those states, and no matter how hard they work, and no matter how much they really need help, NN will never even consider those states because of the union issue.  How is this different from Kos' personal decision?  Why are the progressives in AZ entitled to the extent that  they can complain, ridicule and call names because Kos won't attend and won't spend his money there but progressives in non-union states are assumed to have no complaints?  

      "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

      by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 07:12:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  NN Chose Arizona - we didn't demand it or feel (10+ / 0-)

        entitled to it coming here... are you kidding? We were shocked and thrilled. People are demanding that it be moved elsewhere, contracts be cancelled, and so on just to deny us any help. And WE are entitled?? Really.

        I have said and will say again, boycotting ANY entire state is collective punishment and it is wrong in my opinion, and I would never, never, never suggest that ANY state doesn't "deserve" to have help and support, and if a convention is scheduled there to help them, they deserve the opportunity to make the most of it. No one deserves to be shunned because of where they live.

        The fact that so many of you simply cannot seem to comprehend or muster even a glimmer of empathy for the disappointment and let down of Kos announcing that we, as Arizonans alone and in particular, do not deserve that... well I'll just say it is very perplexing. Kos said explicitly that he would be fine with it in ANY other state -- it would be "no problem" no matter what they may have done or not done. It is us and us alone that cannot be given the boost.

        NN uses union facilities, which is their choice and they are doing so in Phoenix too. Maybe if you tried listening to us instead of telling us how wrong our feelings are, you might be able to "get it" a little bit. But at this point I'm not expecting that from people here. Still, the demand to be silent because we just don't deserve to think this is unfair and hurtful, or at least not to talk about it, not to advocate for people to come help us... what the hell? It's not right.

        •  I do get it. And I understand your disappointment (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Armando, pasadena beggar, lilsky

          What I don't understand is the anger toward Kos and others who don't want to come there for legitimate reasons.  How are the progressives in AZ different from all of the progressives in southern non-union states.  You say "NN uses union facilities, which is their choice.."  But that choice automatically excludes a lot of states with very deserving progressives as well.  Should all of the progressives in those states keep complaining about that decision because it is unfair and hurtful.  The progressives in non-union states deserve every bit of the same respect that the progressives in AZ deserve. (And here I would like to say that I think anyone who disparages an entire state based on the politics of the majority, or majority of voters is ignorant.  I completely agree with you that no one should say general disparaging comments about a state in general)  Do you think the union issue is more important than the civil rights one?  Or the safety one?  Why is it OK for the board of NN to discriminate against states that don't have unionized labor but not OK for Kos to say he doesn't want to come to AZ under the political conditions that exist there now?  

          I'm truly not trying to be confrontational with you but I haven't seen anyone from AZ demanding that the non-union southern states also be allowed to host NN.  And I don't understand why people refuse to simply respect Kos' personal decision when there is the much larger and organizational discrimination going on in relation to non-union states.  And I don't see why he isn't entitled to have personal opinions and beliefs and have those respected without people feeling like there is some personal affront to them and their progressivism.  It seems to me that the only reason for the continued affront is the sense of entitlement.  That is that people believe they have the "right" to have the full NN experience--including the "right" to have Kos there and for DK to fully participate.  That's the part I don't get.  I do get disappointment and frustration and completely understand it.  That's how we feel when the entire southeastern United States isn't even considered for the supposed progressive venue.  I just don't get the anger.  I understand why people from unionized states believe it's a big deal to progressives. And I'm not going to disparage them for treating my state the way your state is being treated.

          "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

          by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:23:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I just said in my comment above that if NN were in (4+ / 0-)

            a different state, any other state, I would fully support the people there and I believe they deserve the help. I am right here and now

            demanding that any state "be allowed" to host NN, if and whenever NN choses to come to any and every other state, for any reason whatsoever.
            If you still can't "hear" that, I don't know what else to say.
            •  I appreciate your consistent (and in my opinion) (0+ / 0-)

              morally more justifiable position.  Unfortunately I did not understand NN in general to take that position.  In fact, I think Adam B made a comment to the effect that NN will never go to a non-union venue.  So, hopefully, we agree about this.  AZ progressives are hurt that they are excluded from consideration by some people like progressives in other states are excluded.  We all recognize that Kos and others have the same rights as the board of NN to exclude from consideration any state with policies they don't agree with.  Those of us in those states hate it that we will always have to travel to NN but we understand that people are entitled to their opinions and to act on them.  AZ won't have to travel but they may be denied a more "complete" NN experience because of other people's positions about coming to their state.  Frankly I find the institutional "picking and choosing" of issues by the board to be more problematic than Kos' decision.  But I accept that I may see that from my perspective of being a progressive in a non-union state.

              "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

              by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 09:59:32 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Venues are not entire states stellaluna (0+ / 0-)

                Choosing to use a certain facility over another in order to support unionized workers, is very different than refusing to set foot on the land of an entire state and denying the entire population of any state the right to have help and support or to have people coming to fight with them.  

                •  So I wonder why it's never been in the southeast (0+ / 0-)

                  But OK, minimize the concerns of every other progressive in favor of the Arizona progressives. You guys are the only ones having to suffer for living in red states. I'm done here

                  "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

                  by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 11:40:59 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What are you talking about? I didn't minimize (0+ / 0-)

                    anything, and I said I think you deserve to have support there too and if NN comes there I will be 100% supportive, and I hope they do! I honestly don't know what more you want.

                  •  We looked seriously at Atlanta. (0+ / 0-)

                    Went as far as doing a site visit, but the space being offered wasn't quite right for us.  I understand that doing the whole thing at the Hyatt Regency may be feasible.

                    The other SE cities we've considered were Orlando and Miami, which aren't "the South," per se.

              •  And BTW, AZ is "non union state" I think (0+ / 0-)

                I'm actually not sure what you mean by that, but we have "right to work" laws here. And we have a lot of unions too.

                Are you saying there are states that have outlawed unions? If so I'm not aware of them. Nor have I heard of any boycotts of any other states for such laws. In any case, NN is clearly not boycotting states with Right to Work laws, else they would be not have chosen AZ any more than  wherever you live.

    •  This is not about that (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      terrypinder, buddabelly, CenPhx, Fox Ringo

      I am not trying to sway anyone regarding NN15. I understand where both sides are coming from and I respect everyone's personal decisions on the matter.

      It's about painting with a broad brush. I don't need to fight about NN15; it's not my fight.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:20:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You ignore the vitriol aimed (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        democracy inaction

        at those of us who will not go to Arizona.

        That is very offputting to me.

      •  Probably we should all realize that the really (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Armando, BoiseBlue

        bad and off-putting comments from both sides are only from a couple of people on both sides.  There were a few anti-AZ comments and they were bad.  There have also been some really bad comments about Kos and the people who won't go to AZ. On the whole I don't think any of those actually represent most of the people here at DKos.  We might just be fighting proxy battles with a few jerks who have over-inflated the entire issue.

        "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

        by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:37:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I was responding directly (0+ / 0-)

        to a statement that you made.  You make note of "...the vitriol that was directed towards [your] friends in Arizona..." but made no such mention of the vitriol that was coming from those same friends.  Your omission makes it appear that there was unwarranted vitriol directed toward your friends when that's not the case at all.  The vitriol directed toward your friends was most likely a response to the vitriol that they expressed first.  Your friends are not innocent bystanders by were instrumental in instigating the vitriol that you are now denouncing.

        You clearly hold your friends blameless when they are at least as much if not more so to blame than the side that you've singled out and are alluding is at fault.  As such, this strains credulity:

        I understand where both sides are coming from and I respect everyone's personal decisions on the matter.

        Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

        by democracy inaction on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 10:14:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know what was responsive to what (0+ / 0-)

          I am disturbed that simply recognizing the vitriol aimed at those of us who won't go to Arizona and condemning it is o hard for many in this thread, including the diarist.

          For me , it make the call on ending vitriol aimed at Red State Dems quite hollow.

          It is the opposite of the solidarity callled for Red State Dems.

          Very very offputting.

        •  I don't hold anyone blameless because I don't (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          emeraldmaiden

          blame anyone. I am talking about the general attitude on this website when it comes to red states. It happens a lot. Yes, I used Arizona as an example because it's a recent one. I could just as easily pull up other diaries about Idaho or Montana and show the same pattern.

          P.S. I am not a crackpot.

          by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:34:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Complaint is easy; work is hard. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emeraldmaiden, BoiseBlue, shesaid

    And any one of us could have been born into a socially conservative household in a rural area without the evolved social advantages of a city.  Any of us could have been raised & enculturated in the prejudices & bigotry we so freely assign to others.

    There but for the grace of ___ go Us.

    All states are purple.

    Thank you, BB.  You are appreciated today as always.

    It's time to start letting sleeping dinosaurs lie, lest we join them in extinction by our consumption of them.

    by Leftcandid on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:18:24 AM PDT

  •  what makes many states red is that fucking radio (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    manyamile, BoiseBlue, sfinx

    those big state rw radio stations can dominate. that's a big part of the opposition- a few assholes on the radio , supplied with talking points and guests by the GOP, their think tanks, and the COC.

    IMO monitoring what they're doing and responding to it when they lie about blue candidates and issues can be a big difference maker.

    one thing is for sure, NO ONE HAS EVER TRIED IT!

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:50:39 AM PDT

  •  I'm with you. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, Bongobanger

    Anyone complaining should be required to work a phone banking shift before they can comment again.

    North Carolina First in Teacher Flight.

    by NCJim on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 07:05:50 AM PDT

  •  Thank you for reminding everyone just how (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, shesaid, manyamile

    hard it is to live and work in a state that is a lot of work for a progressive.  Living in NC now (which is as red as it can be at the moment) is very difficult if you would rather live in a place that values the things progressives value.  It's even more disheartening to see how few people are even aware of, or care about, the progressive hero, the Rev. William Barber, who is a shining light in a dark hole in NC right now.  The Moral Monday protests have been such a big thing here in NC and it's sad to see that there are so many people here who hadn't heard about them.  That is probably the worst part of living in an all (or mostly) red area.  The fact that the good work that is being done is overlooked by many progressives elsewhere.  I don't really mind people "bashing" my state because, on the whole, we deserve it.  I do hate it when fellow progressives don't pay attention to the good things we are accomplishing and thus don't realize how they can help.

    "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

    by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 07:18:10 AM PDT

    •  No kidding (5+ / 0-)

      The Add the Words campaign in Idaho has been a thing of beauty, but very few people here know about it. Diaries about it sink with very little commentary. I wrote about it a few times and got nothing.

      But if a politician from a red state says something stupid it rockets up the rec list.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:24:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And I'm perfectly OK with the stupid rocketing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BoiseBlue

        up the rec list.  It is the reality of my state.  And it also shows how much we are fighting against.  I just hate it that there is so little interest in the good stuff being done.  I was really shocked at all of the commenters here who had never heard of Rev. Barber until this weekend.  Here in NC he feels like an incredible force.

        "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

        by stellaluna on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:31:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Amen! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emeraldmaiden, BoiseBlue

    You can't win a fight if you don't GET IN the fight!

  •  Vitriol went both ways (0+ / 0-)

    I wish you could condemn all of it.

    •  I do (4+ / 0-)

      Armando, I did not want to write a diary about NN15. I'm sorry that I even mentioned Arizona because this did turn into that. But please focus on the rest of the diary because my point is we in red states need some help. We're doing hard work, we don't need to be denigrated.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 08:41:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You wrote a diary about vitriol (0+ / 0-)

        towards your Arizona friends.

        I guess the vitriol form your Arizona friends to those of us who will not go is just fine.

        •  No, I wrote a diary about the comments (7+ / 0-)

          people make about red states and the work that we're doing here. I wrote a diary about something not related to NN15.

          If you want to call me to the carpet for not condemning the vitriol aimed at you and kos, do it in a diary that's about that and bring proof that I haven't done that.

          I asked someone who was chastising MB to back off and even that wasn't good enough for you.

          You're trying to fight a battle with me that I have no interest in. I've already told you several times across several diaries that I respect your decision. But I'm not here to moderate a fight between you and the citizens of AZ.

          Now, you can continue to spam my diary with straw but I have no intention of addressing this matter any further. Plenty of other people are discussing the meat of the diary, not hung up on one sentence and a strawman. There's a healthy cross-section of those who are boycotting AZ and those who are not that are engaged in the TOPIC and that recommended the diary.

          I'm not going to waste anymore keystrokes on the few who want to see it derailed about a topic that has already been beaten to death.

          P.S. I am not a crackpot.

          by BoiseBlue on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 09:01:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I understand you to mention Arizona (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BoiseBlue, emeraldmaiden

        In the context that we, like Idaho, and so many other states, have common interests and concerns, and also face similar obstacles when it comes to perceptions  about the places we live and vote. I think a lot of us feel a common bond in that regard

  •  Thank you (6+ / 0-)

    for your representation of those of us fighting the uphill battle!  

    I live in Kansas, where sometimes I think we've all been shoved through the looking glass into another world, where it is considered one's Christian duty (tm) to NOT help one's fellow man unless he actually doesn't need the help!

    We're trying to fix it, but as I've said to my Democrat friends, we first have to believe that being a Democrat is NOT a dirty little secret!

    To the left, to the left....

    by CWinebrinner on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 09:30:00 AM PDT

  •  AZ was the first state to kill a (5+ / 0-)

    marriage amendment (defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman).

    That was Kirsten Sinema's campaign back in 2006.  I was the field director.  She's now the first openly bisexual member of congress, from AZ-9.

  •  Boise (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, Fox Ringo, mommyof3, shesaid

    I want to apologize to you personally for my getting involved in all that crap. Your diary, and most of the comments (>50% by the math! ;) ) are wonderful. As a former red state resident, I thank you, and I hope that when I go back to that red state, I can help to turn it blue.

  •  Living in Texas here, and although I hate Rick (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, emeraldmaiden

    Perry and pickup trucks and the stupid outline of the stupid state and the machismo and the Alamo, UT and cows...

    ...nothing irritates me more than to have somebody who doesn't live in Texas write off the whole state.

    I think that it's just the privilege of the insider to criticize his own clique, whatever it is. As soon as an outsider does it, it becomes an attack, and the result, perversely, is solidarity on the part of the attackee.

  •  As a red stater.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BoiseBlue, emeraldmaiden

    I have a lot of thoughts on this.   Frankly, I believe more and more that the idea of Salons or regional workshops are going to end up far more effective in red states.  

    In fact, I believe they will be effective in a way that NN just can't be.    

    Because regional salons are smaller, it allows them to really go to a red state and promote a progressive cause.

    NN brings to town a road show and so it is more diffused.

    Think about it.

    Idaho would never be a target for NN
    Nor would Kansas or most of Missouri.
    Or Kentucky, etc.

    But if you have a smaller group meeting, even 100/200 activists you can setup a salon in a single, Union hotel and facility in the reddest part of the world and know you are making a difference in a place that actually deserves it without the side effect of contributing to places that don't.

    I'll post longer about this later.. but yeah.  

    That's my thoughts right now.

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle
    >Follow @tmservo433

    by Chris Reeves on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 04:35:40 PM PDT

  •  very, very late to this. (4+ / 0-)

    and i'm writing this for myself... to remember.

    i was involved recently with another, private, conversation where i was encourged- and that's putting it more generous than it was put to me- to disclose my bonafides.

    this person has never been overly friendly, lives in a bluestate, and has no idea what it's like to live in a place where disclosing what we do as activists can cost us our jobs, our careers, our savings and tear up the fabric of the community we've carefully woven for ourselves.

    i declined the request to disclose my history of activitism that spans five states and 30+ years.

    it's only been in the last year or two that i've opened up at all on this blog and thanks to that not-so-lovely interaction, i'm backing out even more.   i'll read, as usual, and rec and as i often do.

    but open myself up to judgmental-- and in my opinion-- privileged-- bluestaters so they can tell me whether my work, my sacrifices, are up to their ivy tower standards?   i'd sooner poke myself in the eye with a red hot teabag.

    until that interaction, i was going to leave this subject of redstate/bluestate alone.   it's too difficult to describe.

    i used to think it was a good thing to try and build bridges.   i'm no longer sure its worth my energy.   the collective can be great when we lead with all of our strengths at the same time... but it's fucked beyond belief when we all have to show up in the same designer clothes.

    i will continue to support efforts in my state and neighboring state.  i will continue to support efforts in Michigan, Wisconson and Texas.  i will look for efforts to support in Arizona.  i will keep my eye on district-level races across the nation that might need a nudge.  

    and i will support redstaters time and again over anything or any issue.   that's my line.  i just drew it.   that's my solidarity... it's a natural fit... i've been fighting for the underdog and the outsiders and the 'other' forever.  

    peace.

    "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

    by kj in missouri on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:09:54 PM PDT

    •  Don't quit. You don't know how many people (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kj in missouri, emeraldmaiden

      from whatever "color" state are reading and being informed and affected by what you say. I have learned a lot from this discussion.

      A lot of people who live in "blue" states are underdogs, outsiders, and "others". And a lot of them live in very "red" districts, communities, workplaces, families. Those aren't the people you're talking about, but don't forget them. I've often been one.

      Babylon system is the vampire... ~Bob Marley

      by sfinx on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:39:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i won't forget them... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        emeraldmaiden

        there are underdogs and outsiders and others and castoffs everywhere.
        every neighborhood, every city, every state.

        that's where 95% of my volunteer energy has gone.  and it's enriched my spirit beyond measure.

        i get so frustrated at the single lens way of looking at the world.  but then i realize how lucky i am that i've never bought into that one frame.

        we are all creative souls.  we all have gifts to offer the collective.   i've always thought that was sort of the point of community.

        good chat.   thanks.

        "From single strands of light we build our webs." ~kj

        by kj in missouri on Wed Jul 23, 2014 at 06:57:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  you are absolutely correct (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emeraldmaiden

    sometimes its just fun to be on whether an idiot from Texas, Idaho, Arizona or Mississippi wins the "mike of the day" but its also way too easy, a Ted Nugent cage or helicopter "hunt'. it is important to remember what it must be like to live in their district as they walk to the mike, like a person of color watching the crime report in Detroit or Philly. it is past time we stop this, see every American as valued, important and a needed vote and support their value-especially those tired from the fight against the odds. I apologize, I know better but sometimes the easy is just fun but Mississippi, Mississippi, Mississippi is really not that far from Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi

  •  Not only do liberals in red states (0+ / 0-)

    deserve our respect and gratitude for their thankless labors ... but there are a lot MORE of them than people realize.  

    In a typical strongly red area, maybe 60% of votes cast are for Republicans, and 40% are for Democrats.   A gap that size is not often bridged when it comes to winning elections.   But 40% of the population of, say, Texas, is a helluva lotta humans!  So when someone disses all Texans as hopeless political Neanderthals, they're dissing about 10 MILLION people on their own side.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 03:50:21 PM PDT

  •  WOW! Standing and applauding and cheering! (0+ / 0-)

    I live in the lower right-hand corner of Arizona, in a deeply red county that includes a piece of Tucson in its Congressional district and thus is represented by a rather purple Democrat, Rep. Ron Barber, successor to Gabby Giffords.

    Rep. Barber could be better, but have you looked at Martha McSally? That's why I worked for Ron last time, in the sense of making phone calls and donating what I could as well as voting for him, and I plan to do so again. Just as I did last time, and just as I did for Gabby.

    Meanwhile, I'm not really an activist in any real sense. I do a bit of what I mentioned above, both for local and national races, and I try to keep up. I don't do bumper stickers, though, or other visible signs.  Too many of my fellow SSI recipients lean rather strongly the other way, and I don't handle confrontation very well.

    BUT. I am, in all ways I can,  trying to keep our corner of Arizona purple, until it can turn blue. I am a very active clicktivist (I know that's usually a pejorative, but we all do what we can do), and I call Rep. Barber's office regularly. In fact, if they have any sort of Frequent Caller list in the Tucson office, I'm probably on it. I even write actual pen & ink letters to Congresscritters or assorted Federal and/or state bureaucrats.

    We all know that political offices count each phone call as representing X number of *non-*calling voters. For paper letters, X is raised to at least the power of five, I believe.

    So I may not really be an activist, but I do count myself as Progressive, and it feels good to hear from others such as myself who are living in Deep Purple. : )  You GO,Boise Blue!

     

    One size of anything NEVER fits all.

    by KDfrAZ on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 09:54:57 PM PDT

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