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Thursday July 30, 1914
Chicago, Illinois - Testimony of Elizabeth Maloney before the Walsh Commission, Part II
Miss Elizabeth Maloney appeared before the Commission on Industrial relations (also called the Walsh Commission) on July 22nd and testified regarding the conditions under which waitresses labor in this city. Miss Maloney is the financial secretary of the Waitresses Union which is now conducting strikes of waitresses at Henrici's and Knab's.
During her testimony, Miss Maloney described efforts made by the Waitresses' Union to secure legislation favorable to working women, but also cautioned that labor legislation without labor organization does not do any good for the working woman:
We are presenting the testimony of Miss Maloney in two parts. Today we offer Part II:
Chairman Walsh. Mr. Weinstock would like to ask you a few questions.
Commissioner Weinstock. I understand 10 hours is a maximum number of hours fixed by
the law that women can work in Illinois?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. The law does not fix the minimum wage as yet?
Miss Maloney. No, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. The 10-hour schedule for waitresses was due to the law?
Miss Maloney. We first had it through organization, and in conjunction with the
Women's Trade Union League we introduced the first bill for the 10-hour day. That bill
was just limited to the trades in the first law— laundries, manufactories, and
mechanical establishments—because there was a supreme court decision against the
limitation of women's hours of work in certain lines, and we knew we would have to
face the supreme court and have them reverse that decision, and so we took the
identical Oregon law. Then it was carried to the court in the case of the Ritchie Co.,
and the law was upheld in the supreme court and it reversed its prior decision and
included all trades. The waitresses had it by organization before that.
Commissioner Weinstock. For what period was the agreement of your association with
Mr. Knab?
Miss Maloney. Only from the 1st of January to the 1st of May.
Commissioner Weinstock. Only four months?
Miss Maloney. Yes.
Commissioner Weinstock. Had he violated any agreement?
Miss Maloney. In one house there was a violation. In fact we desire to have all these
things settled in one hearing.
Commissioner Weinstock. The agreement was only signed for four months?
Miss Maloney. Yes ; the agreements all expire the 1st of May each year.
Commissioner Weinstock. The issue at this time is to compel Mr. Knab to renew the
agreement?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. Whether he wishes to or not?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. How many workers went on strike on the 1st of May from
Knab's place?
Miss Maloney. Out of 90 girls, 75 have gone on strike.
Commissioner Weinstock. You say 75 out of 90?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. Are they still out on strike?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir; they haven't gone back there. Some of them are working at
other places.
Commissioner Weinstock. None of the proportional 75 returned to Knab's?
Miss Maloney. Only two.
Commissioner Weinstock. Can you tell the commission how many waitresses there are
in Chicago?
Miss Maloney. I think the last census showed 2,000.
Commissioner Weinstock. What proportion of that number belong to your union?
Miss Maloney. Between 600 and 700.
Commissioner Weinstock. About 30 per cent are organized?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. The remainder are unorganized?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. That is all—in speaking of the minimum wage, do you favor a
minimum wage?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. Does your organization favor the minimum wage?
Miss Maloney. I can't speak for all of the organizations; but I believe the women's do.
Commissioner Weinstock. The women favor it?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. The unions composed of men, have they fought it in any
way?
Miss Maloney. Not in this State.
Commissioner Weinstock. They have not?
Miss Maloney. No, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. In speaking of the minimum wage, you were saying that the
lowest wage ought to be called a living wage?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. Put yourself, for the moment, in the position of the employer.
Suppose you wanted to hire a woman and there were two women before you, two
applicants; one was more efficient than the other, in your judgment, which would you select, the more efficient woman or the less efficient woman?
Miss Maloney. I should think, naturally, I should want the more efficient; but, then,
perhaps, if I could not afford her salary I might choose the less efficient.
Commissioner Weinstock. Suppose both were ready to work for the minimum wage, you
would naturally select the more efficient?
Miss Maloney. I would naturally select the more efficient.
Commissioner Weinstock. Suppose every employer did the same thing, what would
become of the less efficient ones?
Miss Maloney. I will answer that by saying I don't expect in setting a minimum wage—
we are setting it so low, we want to make a standard below which nobody can go.
Anybody, who pretends to be in an industry at all, can get that. We don't expect
when the minimum wage is established, if you show more efficiency you can't go
above it.
Chairman Walsh. At this point we will adjourn until 2 o'clock. Please return to the stand
at 2 o'clock....
(Adjournment was here taken until 2 o'clock p. m. of the same day, Wednesday, July 22, 1914.)
AFTER RECESS.
Now, the hour of 2 o'clock having arrived, the commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, same as before.
Chairman Walsh. You may proceed, Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Miss Maloney, please take the stand again.
Commissioner Weinstock. I think, Mr. Chairman, I was in the midst of the examination.
Chairman Walsh. Yes, Mr. Weinstock.
Commissioner Weinstock. Coming back, Miss Maloney-
Mr. Thompson. One question I desire to ask, Miss Maloney: You state you believe in
the minimum-wage law?
Mr. Thompson. I have this question to propound to you: Would you compel an
employer by law to give employment to the unemployed at the minimum wage?
Miss Maloney. To the unemployed?
Mr. Thompson. Yes.
Miss Maloney. You mean some one who had never been employed by them?
Mr. Thompson. What is that?
Miss Maloney. Do you mean some one that they never had in their employ?
Mr. Thompson. This is the language of the question—I will say frankly—well, the
question is as follows, the question by Mr. Drew: Would you compel an employer by
law to give employment to the unemployed at the minimum wage
Chairman Walsh. Would you compel an employer to hire persons that were unemployed,
at the minimum wage, whether he needed them in that industry or not?
Miss Maloney. Oh, no; certainly not.
Mr. Thompson. If not, how would you take care of the unemployed?
Chairman Walsh. I don't believe I would ask Miss Maloney that question. Ask somebody
else that has a broader knowledge. You don't need to answer that; it is all right.
Miss Maloney. I can answer how they would take care of them in our own organization.
Chairman Walsh. How do you take care of them in your own organization?
Miss Maloney. In union shops in slack seasons—now, this is the summer season; it is
our rush season—you take in the months of February and March, you take a house
that has 40 or 50 employees, in place of putting any of them off the pay roll they will
have each girl leave off one or two meals a week; that is the way we handle that.
Chairman Walsh. Now, Mr. Weinstock.
Commissioner Weinstock. For your information, Miss Maloney, I might explain that in
the British countries—in England, New Zealand, Australia—where the minimum wage
was initiated, the legal minimum wage, they have a graduated scale, beginning with
the boy and the girl that starts in fresh from school. The scale rises year by year until
the maximum minimum is obtained. Now, is that your conception of the minimum
wage? Would you pay what is called the maximum minimum wage right at the very
start without having any graduated scale?
Miss Maloney. Well, 1 think that you would start on the minimum and up toward the
maximum.
Commissioner Weinstock. You would have a graduated scale?
Miss Maloney Yes.
Commissioner Weinstock. That is, you would not pay the boy and girl of 16 the same
as you would the young man and young woman at 20?
Miss Maloney. No, sir.
Commissioner Weinstock. Would you have that scale rise by age, as it is in other
countries, or by experience? In those countries they start in at 16 years, so much a
week; 17 years, so much a week; 18 years, so much a week; 19 years, so much a
week; and 20 years, so much a week, and there is no maximum to that except what
the individual can create for himself.
Miss Maloney. Can obtain through efficiency?
Commissioner Weinstock. By way of efficiency.
Miss Maloney. Yes; I would approve of that plan.
Chairman Walsh. Mr. Lennon would like to ask a few questions.
Commissioner Lennon. Is it or is it not your understanding that the wages of waiters
are to be paid from the tips of the customers? I don't mean that there is an
agreement, but do you believe that that practice of tips is taken advantage of by
employers in order to make the wages less?
Miss Maloney. In some instances; yes, sir. In the recent Henrici strike that was one of
the strong resources they relied upon in paying $7 wage. They said they received
good tips. I wish to say that organizations don't believe that the deficiency in the pay
roll should be made up out of the charity of the patrons. That is the way the
organization feels about it.
Commissioner Lennon. What is the attitude of your union as to the tipping system?
Miss Maloney. We would like to see it eliminated and a decent living wage in its place.
Commissioner Lennon. If a living wage was paid, do you believe that would help to
eliminate the tipping system?
Miss Maloney. I believe it would.
Commissioner Lennon. Now, I want to find out from you something about wages and
conditions in this city. Take, say, a year ago or two years ago, what wages were paid
to waitresses in nonunion houses?
Miss Maloney. In nonunion houses they work seven days for $8 and some houses
seven days for $7, and lunch work from $3.50 to $3.90. You see there was a dollar
difference in the wages there in that respect as far as the union is concerned. Some
houses, for instance, in the Knab House, they work seven days for $7.
Commissioner Lennon. What wages were paid in union houses-
Miss Maloney. For $8, I mean.
Commissioner Lennon. What wages were paid in union houses that long time ago?
Miss Maloney. Six days and $8 in the houses that had closed-shop agreement.
Commissioner Lennon. What rules existed in restaurants and hotels wherever waiters
are used as to their payment for breakage? Suppose they break a tray of dishes, who
has to pay for those?
Miss Maloney. If the waitress or waiter breaks it, he pays for them.
Commissioner Lennon. Is that always the case, or is each case judged on its own
particular merits?
Miss Maloney. In some houses you pay for the breakage irrespective of the merits, but
in contracted union houses they can only charge for breakage in the case of gross
negligence.
Commissioner Lennon. Who determines the question of negligence?
Miss Maloney. If there is a question, it is left to the business agent of the union and
the manager, and if they can not settle it they call on the committee, but it is usually
settled by the business agent and the manager of the restaurant as to the merits or
demerits of the case, and if they can't agree they put it to a committee.
Commissioner Lennon. In the nonunion house who determines it?
Miss Maloney. The management. The waitress has no alternative except to accept the
ultimatum of the manager or head waiter.
Commissioner Lennon. And have no appeal to anyone?
Miss Maloney. The waitress has no appeal to anyone except to quit their job.
Commissioner Lennon. Do you know anything about the fines—any fine system.
Suppose a girl is an hour late in the morning or at noon, are they fined in the house
for being late? What is done?
Miss Maloney. Well, I think, as a general rule, if a girl were to report an hour late she
would lose her job.
Commissioner Lennon. Say 10 or 15 minutes late?
Miss Maloney. In some houses they have a system of fines for that—fine them 1 cent
for every minute they are late.
Commissioner Lennon. Is that anyway general or is that an isolated thing?
Miss Maloney. It is not a general thing. They expect us to be on time, because your
work starts in right away, and if you can't be on time you lose your job.
Commissioner Lennon. What effect has the establishment of your union and contracts
in some of the restaurants had upon nonunion houses as to the raising of the wages
and the limitation of hours?
Miss Maloney. They raise within a few cents of our scale so as to keep the girls from
becoming members of the organization. Our 600 members set the wage scale for the
2,000 girls of this town. They keep within 10 cents of it or maybe make them work a
day longer, but the $8 wage, as a general rule, is paid in this town because it has
been established by the union.
Commissioner Lennon. Does your union take cognizance of women employed like
chambermaids in the hotel?
Miss Maloney. They were organized at one time here in Chicago about 10 years when
we went through quite a struggle and their organization was disrupted at that time,
but we have made investigations of their work and do organize them into our national
union.
Commissioner Lennon. Do you know about the wages they receive?
Miss Maloney. Yes; I had occasion to investigate the case of a chamber maid in one of
the large hotels here. From $14 to $15 a month. I investigated the case of a girl
where they were poisoned on food that was spoiled and I went into quite a thorough
investigation of that and found out from those girls that they received food that was
three or four days old and when they got it it was in a half decomposed state. These
girls were poisoned through eating spoiled roast pork, and in speaking with them I
went to the room of the girls because they were in bed from those attacks of
ptomaine poison and found on their window sills boxes of crackers and bottles of milk
and other eatables. I said, what does this mean, don't you get your board at the
hotel? Yes; but it is not fit to eat half of the time and whatever tips I get I use to get
things to eat. There was an illustration of a regular delecatessen store, you might
say, on the window sill of this girl's bedroom.
Commissioner Lennon. Has the union agitation bettered their condition, if you know, in
this city?
Miss Maloney. I think it has to some extent.
Commissioner Lennon. How many women do you suppose are engaged in
that business in his city; have you any idea at all?
Miss Maloney. Oh, I should judge about 3,000.
Commissioner Lennon. How do the waitresses' wages compare with the girls that are
employed in the cloak and suit industry, do you know that?
Miss Maloney. Well, that I do not know, because they work on a piece system, the
majority of them. I could not answer that question because I have not ever worked in
that trade and could not go into detail on it.
Commissioner Lennon. Speaking of the minimum wage, in expressing your approval of it,
I am not sure whether you have yet indicated whether you believe in a minimum wage
by a statute law of the State or whether you believe in it by the creation of wages
boards?
Miss Maloney. I believe in it by the creation of wages boards. I think that is the only
way to determine it to arrive at what a proper wage would be for each trade.
Commissioner Lennon. Has your organization ever taken any official action on the
question of the minimum wage?
Miss Maloney. They have indorsed it, and part of the people in the Women's Trade
Union League went to Springfield at the last session of the legislature to get a
minimum wage law.
Commissioner Lennon. That is, your local union, you mean?
Miss Maloney. They cooperated in the action of the Women's Trade Union in that sort
of legislation and indorsed it.
Commissioner Lennon. That is, your Chicago local union cooperated?
Miss Maloney. Yes.
Commissioner Lennon. Your international union, has it taken any action?
Miss Maloney. Yes; our waitresses in San Francisco appeared before the legislature
there for the same kind of a law and our girls did also in Washington.
Commissioner Lennon. What age are girls employed as waitresses?
Miss Maloney. From 16 years up.
Commissioner Lennon. About what standard of education are they; are they pretty well
through the eighth grade?
Miss Maloney. Most of them; some of them have been graduates from day schools, and
they are mostly girls who come here from small towns and have come here to start
out in offices and the salary was small and they had to go into the restaurant work
for the sake of getting their meals. They can get along a little better by just having to
pay their room and laundry and get their meals ; but in some of the nonunion houses
they do not get good substantial food such as they get in the union houses.
Commissioner Lennon. Has the city of Chicago in making provision for vocational
education made any provision to teach girls the work of waitresses?
Miss Maloney. Not yet.
Commissioner Lennon. Has your union ever taken up the question at all ?
Miss Maloney. No; not in a specific way, speaking generally.
Commissioner Lennon. As much as you know of this general subject, do you believe in
the State furnishing such education to some extent, to a reasonable extent?
Miss Maloney. I should say so; it is a trade. People are going to eat just the same as
they are going to wear clothes and gloves and anything else. This is a trade that will
be with us all the time. There is no reason why it should not be taught properly.
Commissioner Lennon. I wonder if it is not an art, once in a while, when I see them
carrying a load around. I think that is all.
Chairman Walsh. Mr. Ballard would like to ask you a question or two.
Commissioner Ballard. Please, Miss Maloney, you spoke of the tips—can you give us
some idea about what the tips would amount to in the course of the week with the
average waiter girl?
Miss Maloney. Well, it would depend on the class of house and the girl's Station in the
house.
Commissioner Ballard. Well, the class of house you have been referring to.
Miss Maloney. Well, if you referred to the house where the strike is on, the question of
tips don't arise there to any great extent. The tips don't amount to much in that kind
of house; it is a popular-priced house.
But in the case of Henrici's they made very startling statements, almost
unbelievable; they claimed that the girls in that house made $25 a week. Our
investigation shows that the girl in a good station would average from
90 cents to $1.10 a day, that is getting the girls who work there—their opinion—what
they actually got.
Commissioner Ballard. You say you are the business agent of the waitresses' union. Are
you a waitress yourself?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Ballard. Where have you been working?
Miss Maloney. Well, I have worked in quite a number of restaurants in this town. I
learned the business in the Fair department store; worked in Siegel's, Rothschilds, and
then worked in quite a number of the lunch rooms around town.
Commissioner Ballard. Are you working the last few years since you became business
agent?
Miss Maloney. I haven't worked at the business in two years.
Commissioner Ballard. Is your union a national union or merely a local union?
Miss Maloney. This is a local union affiliated with an international union covering the
United States and Canada.
Commissioner Ballard. When your girls are on strike, do they receive strike benefits?
Miss Maloney. Well, not a stated strike benefit. We have what we call a defense fund.
Commissioner Ballard. Where does that fund come from?
Miss Maloney. Well, it is an international fund.
Commissioner Ballard. The unions in other cities will send the money here to help you?
Miss Maloney. They will send it to the international union and from the international
union to us.
Commissioner Ballard. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Walsh. Mr. Delano would like to ask some questions.
Commissioner Delano. There are a good many employers, I suppose, that employ only
union girls?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Delano. Now, do those employers have any immunity from trouble, do
they get any better character of girls, is there anything done by your union to make it
to their interest to do that?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir. In the first place, they get steadier help, girls whose actions
are responsible to their organization. A girl must give an employer 24 hours' notice if
she wants to leave. She must report at least 15 minutes before the hour called for
work. She does everything that she can to always have a satisfactory substitute in
her place when she leaves his employment. And there are so many advantages from it
that the people who have contracts with us have no hesitancy at all in saying that
they are well satisfied with the help that we send them. You see, they are responsible
to the organization for their actions, and in order to have the protection of an
organization they are anxious to make good when they are on the job.
Commissioner Delano. Are they liable—are those employers liable to sympathetic strikes
or anything of that kind?
Miss Maloney. Well, we haven't had any sympathetic strikes. We provide for that by
way of arbitration.
Commissioner Delano. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Walsh. Miss Maloney, why do you object to the giving of tips; or what evils,
if any, have you found coming from that so far as the girls themselves are concerned,
or the industry, the workers in the industry are concerned?
Miss Maloney. Well, in the first place, where there are tips it always creates a great
deal of dissatisfaction, for one thing, because the girls don't receive them, and yet
their wages would be lowered on account of those who do, and the precedent
established by those who do makes it hurtful on those who do not. And then another
thing. When a girl has to depend on tips for her existence, it is pretty hard for her to
draw the line—where the line of propriety should be. It is very hard for her to
determine. She is likely, while she resents things that are said to her, she don't resent
them in the way that she would when she knows that the man is going to leave her a
dime or a quarter, because she wants the money, and, although she knows that the
thing that he is saying should be resented, she hesitates about it because she wants
the money.
Chairman Walsh. You recognize that as a distinct evil where young girls are concerned
in restaurants?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir.
Chairman Walsh. And that is why you have worked against it?
Miss Maloney. That is why we are trying to standardize the trade and increase the
wages and hours and eliminate the tipping system.
Chairman Walsh. What hours do chambermaids work in hotels generally—in large
hotels?
Miss Maloney. Well, while the 10-hour law was under discussion we had a great deal of
that sort of thing. They usually work from 8 to 9 hours, but then they have what they
call their long-watch days, and, of course, before the 10-hour law went into effect
they used to be on watch 12 and 13 hours, but now, of course, the law protects
them.
Chairman Walsh. Has there been any effort to protect any other industry where there
are large numbers of girls and women employed in Chicago?
Miss Maloney. Yes.
Chairman Walsh. In what industries, for instance—typical ones?
Miss Maloney. Well, they are organized in the garment trades; they are organized in
the glove workers; they are organized in the boot and shoe workers.
Commissioner Weinstock. Laundresses?
Miss Maloney. Well, they have got a very small organization of laundry workers.
Chairman Walsh. Are the telephone girls organized?
Miss Maloney. They are not organized here in Chicago.
Chairman Walsh. What others?
Miss Maloney. I could not name them all offhand.
Chairman Walsh. Is that all that you can think of?
Miss Maloney. Oh, there are more than that.
Chairman Walsh. Miss Nestor will probably have a list of them.
Miss Maloney. She will have a list of those affiliated with the women's trade-union.
Chairman Walsh. Is there any question, Mr. Thompson?
Commissioner Garretson. Mr. Chairman-
Chairman Walsh. Mr. Garretson would like to ask you a question.
Commissioner Garretson. Are the 10 hours under the State law worked consecutively,
or is there a period allowed in between?
Miss Maloney. Yes; there is a period allowed between; they can make you take time
off.
Commissioner Garretson. They can work you five hours and then a recess, and then
work and then a recess and work again?
Miss Maloney. Yes, sir ; and I might say that when we tried to get the nine-hour law
at the last session of the legislature, that Mr. Taylor and the organization that he
represents defeated that sort of legislation, defeated the nine-hour law, defeated the
one day rest in seven, defeated all minimum wage legislation, so that they are
absolutely opposed to remedial legislation for women workers in this State; that is
shown by their actions; and they are equally opposed to organization, because their
entire efforts have been directed to breaking them up, in place of meeting them and
trying to deal with them.
Commissioner Garretson. You mean opposed to organization for others or for
themselves?
Miss Maloney. Well, for others, but not for themselves.
Commissioner Garretson. Oh.
Chairman Walsh. Any other questions? Mr. O'Connell has a question he would like to
ask.
Commissioner O'Connell. Has there been any legislation before the State legislature
introduced in behalf of labor or by labor in a remedial way that that association of
employers have given support to?
Miss Maloney. Not that I know of, except when there were commissions appointed
they come in and agree upon bills; otherwise they always fight.
Commissioner O'Connell. The legislation that has been introduced, they have made
opposition to it. I would like to ask you, Do you believe there should be a union among
domestic servants in the homes?
Miss Maloney. I certainly do.
Commissioner O'Connell. That is all.
Chairman Walsh. Unless you have something else you have thought of you wish to
volunteer, Miss Maloney, that will be all.
Miss Maloney. I wanted to bring out the point that where there is no organization of
the women workers, legislation in their behalf does not do any good, because their
fear of the loss of their position keeps them from having the law enforced. Now, you
take the Polish girls who are working in hotels and restaurants, they report a violation,
and even after they have reported the violation they hesitate to come into court and
appear as a witness because of the loss of their positions, because they must then in
turn give two more dollars to the employment agency to get another position ; so
that no matter what legislation you may have concerning the women workers, you
must have an organization of those workers to make that legislation effective.
Chairman Walsh. Is that all?
Miss Maloney. Yes.
Chairman Walsh. Thank you, Miss Maloney.
[emphasis and paragraph breaks added]
"Frank P. Walsh: The Man Chosen by President Wilson to Lead the Commission of Industrial Relations"
(search with "Frank P. Walsh)
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