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In a careful examination of the video released by the Ferguson PD, it appears that Michael Brown actually paid for the cigars that the police claim he stole.

Crooks and Liars:

Ferguson police's attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag. The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.

While it is difficult to be 100% certain, the video appears to show Brown purchasing some cigars, but lacking the money for the amount he wished to buy. Brown seems to  purchase some cigarillos, pay for them, attempt to buy more, then replace the ones he could not afford.

The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.

C&L does a good job discussing how media jumped on the "thug" bandwagon and attempted to aid the character assassination of Michael Brown.

Anyone attempting to justify this shooting by calling Michael Brown a "thug" or a "criminal" or who says that "he had a rap sheet" as various people have claimed over the past few days is, clearly, a racist.

Even if Brown did commit the petty theft of a $5 pack of cigars, a pack he appears to have paid for, gunning him down in the aftermath is murder. Petty theft is not a capital crime.

The police themselves are never supposed to dispense punishment. Their job is never to punish. That is the job of the courts. Yet when the police in this country act to punish, they are given a pass by people who don't seem to understand the rule of law, or the importance of our laws and rights.

Yet there has been this parade of forces attempting to justify the police action as if it could possibly be justified.

This cannot possibly be justified.

There is no scenario in which the shooting of an unarmed teenager is remotely acceptable.

And the Ferguson PD have proved themselves to be liars, yet again.

Just like the time that they charged a man with four counts of destruction of city property for bleeding on their uniforms while they beat him.

The fact that the Ferguson PD are liars shouldn't surprise anyone. But perhaps this bit of evidence can help us push back against the character assassination they're using against an innocent, murdered, american teenager.

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Comment Preferences

    •  This is precisely why (151+ / 0-)

      the release of that tape was so offensive and slanderous. We don't know the entirety of what it showed and we don't know whether the police were being selective in order to try to exonerate themselves. I am disgusted at people I know — good, leftie people even — who have accepted without question that it defines Michael Brown as a "thug" or a "bully" when in fact, we really can't know that. Bur regardless of what it showed, nothing on it justified the killing.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:10:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

          •  well, there are better comments below (6+ / 0-)

            which I should have read before posting.

            "Tax cuts for the 1% create jobs." -- Republicans, HAHAHA - in China

            by MartyM on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:09:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, a link to the police report ... (5+ / 0-)

              concerning the robbery is provided by Kossack Falconer520.

              The report taken by the officer includes, in detail, the description of the suspect that he was given, then states "I gave out this information over the radio."

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:18:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Which, as I'm sure you know, was not a "robbery" (10+ / 0-)

                at that time. Since we're talking about the broadcast, it's important not to leave the impression that Wilson could have heard that he was looking for a robbery suspect. No one suspected a robbery at that time.

                •  The officer taking the report first called it ... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MartyM

                  a "stealing", then later wrote in considerable detail in the same report about the physical altercation with the clerk.  I know of no official report yet that states what terms were actually broadcast over the police radio.

                  "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                  by Neuroptimalian on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:20:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  We know that the original responding (19+ / 0-)

                    officers described it as "stealing" or "stealing in progress" in the same sentence or paragraph in which they refer to the description broadcast by dispatch.

                    ...at approximately 1158 hours, I, [redacted] responded with [redacted], to a stealing that had just occurred. While en-route, dispatch advised a black male wearing a white shirt. The suspect reportedly stole a box of cigars. [Editor's note: Does not mention "shoved a store employee while doing so."]
                    ...while on a call inthe Park Ridge apartment complex .... I received a call for a stealing in progress .... I responded to that location and was given a description by dispatch of a b/m in a white t-shirt that was walking northbound....
                    We know that after responding, these officers immediately went in search of the big bad perp and only later returned for more in-depth interviews that zoomed all the way up to "pushed [redacted] on his way out."

                    So the 11:58 calls were for stealing, and the descriptions -- with no "oh, really a robbery" added -- followed that. We know that by 12:01, the "disturbance in progress" on Coppercreek/Canfield had already been reported.

                    We know that the statements about the strong-arm allegations have been based on the video review and an interview on 8/11. We know they did not review the video on 8/9. We know that they came for it on 8/10 but could not immediately view it on their system, and that the image captures appear to have been made on 8/11.

                    You're free to wait hopefully for an "official document" to appear that magically inserts an updated "really a strong-arm robbery!!!" call between approximately 11:59 and 12:00 that Wilson heard, processed, and decided that Brown was guilty of before executing him moments later. They'll probably need to do some insertions on the stuff they've already put out, though, including dreaming up another officer or two to have learned about the shoving in about 30 seconds and getting that crucial detail out on the radio. That could prove awkward.

                    •  great info - thanks (3+ / 0-)

                      "Tax cuts for the 1% create jobs." -- Republicans, HAHAHA - in China

                      by MartyM on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:58:11 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't see how it matters, really, ... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      unfangus

                      how the event was characterized.  What matters is whether a BOLO was broadcast over police radio ... which has been claimed had not happened.  The question was whether or not the patrolling officer (Wilson) had any reason to suspect Brown of anything when he was observed walking down the middle of the street.

                      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                      by Neuroptimalian on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:18:52 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It seems that some would like that to be the ? (5+ / 0-)

                        Some people would like the question to be whether or not there was a reason to suspect the kid.  

                        That is a completely irrelevant point, because we are talking about the extrajudicial execution of a possible suspect in a petty theft.  When we view the tape, we see that there may not even have been a theft.

                        The question should have nothing to do with the video, because the video was introduced only to make the kid look like a criminal, thereby giving people the justification for supporting the killing of an unarmed teen by local cops.

                        Streichholzschächtelchen

                        by otto on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:36:35 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  You surprise me. (0+ / 0-)

                        I would have thought you had a better grasp on the meaning of evidence, both legally and psychologically. Unless you've completely misrepresented your expertise, you know quite well the difference between being a person of interest in a five-finger discount and being a person of interest in a violent felony. You know the implications for what the officer would expect, what would be expected of the officer, and the implications for convincing a jury that the officer had a reasonable belief that Brown was [fill in applicable standard for "fleeing felon/escaping dangerous criminal" excuse for deadly force].

                        And you know the point of bumping up the heinous crime to strong-arm robbery after he was already dead was to further the narrative that he "needed killin'" -- and you're playing into it with gusto. (That part doesn't surprise me at all.)

                        TL;DR version: Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

                        •  I mean it differently ... (0+ / 0-)

                          than the way you're interpreting it.  My bad.  

                          To your point of the probable differences in the officer's concerns if he had reason to suspect he was dealing with a person who'd just committed a crime as opposed to someone who was simply walking in the roadway:

                          If there was no BOLO, we'd expect the officer to have one particular mindset about the man (which Brown's height and heft gave him the appearance of being) walking up the middle of the street.  He likely, I can only assume, wouldn't have thought it to be any big deal, requiring only that he direct Brown to get out of the middle of the street to avoid being hit by passing vehicles and/or to not interfere with traffic.  

                          If, however, a BOLO were issued that announced a "stealing" (presumably interpreted as a shoplifting) by a man wearing specific clothing, an officer would be more cautious because he'd have to assume that any suspect could present a problem of some sort in order to avoid arrest after he'd already successfully stolen from a store and escaped without being caught.

                          On the third hand, if an officer were advised that a "strong-arm robbery" had occurred, his concern for his own safety would rise to an even higher level now that he'd been given information which told him that  the suspect was capable of physical violence.  Any officer of average height and weight would have some concerns for his safety if he encountered Brown under these circumstances.  

                          Each of these scenarios would have been handled somewhat differently by any officer.  But notwithstanding the foregoing, I submit that it didn't really matter (in the context of the specific concept being discussed) ... that that was not the concern being expressed here on Dkos ... in that the general meme that I was responding to was that there had been no BOLO whatsoever, that the officer encountered Brown with no knowledge of any prior activity and that he had just (apparently) gone crazy and decided to murder a black man that sunny afternoon for no reason whatsoever other than he was a racist and that he was white while Brown was a minority.

                          Really?  

                          A lot of people would obviously like to believe that, but there needs to be some actual proof of that before anyone should buy into it.  No intelligent person would.  An intelligent person would wait until all the evidence has been disclosed before forming any firm conclusions.  Here, we don't even have the officer's version of events yet (and the Police Chief's statements are not a substitute because he. was. not. there!).  We have the results of a partial autopsy ... luckily by a person with established credibility and experience ... but it was incomplete.  And there are supposedly two more autopsies to come.  We also don't know what the evidence involving the police vehicle will show, what testimony the other eyewitnesses may have to offer, etc.  So to just blindly assume a racist cop murdered an innocent person that day is just premature, to say the least.

                          This comment has already gotten way too long, so I'll leave it at that for now.

                          TL;DR - discussions about different possibilities are fine, but being certain about conclusions before the rest of the evidence is revealed is just a foolhardy exercise for those who really could care less what the actual truth is.

                          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                          by Neuroptimalian on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:30:37 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  Where did you get the date (0+ / 0-)

                      for the video review on 8/11? Because the local Fox news interview with the store owner says the video was given to the police on 8/15.

                      •  Page 8 of 10 of the police report (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Anak, VClib

                        shows they got the disc on 8/10 but could not play it. Pages 9 and 10 show (I think) the dates of the image captures as 8/11. The package was released to the press on 8/15, so the store owner is obviously wrong, if he's talking about the same video. There were multiple cameras, so perhaps he's talking about a different video than the one described in the 19 pages released on 8/15. I believe there are angles we haven't seen, but it wouldn't be the first convenience store to have several of its apparent surveillance cameras either not real or not functioning.

                        •  Thanks. It's very hard for me (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Villanova Rhodes

                          to read those things; not sure how it all works.

                          I had thought the descriptions there were from eye witnesses, not from viewing the video.

                          I'll go look at them again later today, but do you recall if they state the date they included the names of Michael and Dorian?

                          •  I know one answer, (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Anak, VClib

                            but not the other. Yes, the original descriptions were from eyewitnesses -- originally B/M in white T-shirt, shortly thereafter other clothing details were added and broadcast.

                            I do not know exactly when they first included the names of Michael and Dorian -- the report seems to be missing a page on which the date of the supplement would show up -- but the ID sequence for Michael appears to have been (1) officer X responds to stealing call and gets description; (2) officer X later (how much later I don't know) responds to Coppercreek/Canfield scene and sees Michael's body and puts two and two together; (3) officer X eventually views video and IDs Michael on the video. Here's how it was described:

                            After viewing Brown and reviewing this video, I was able to confirm that Brown is the primary suspect in this incident. A second person, also at that scene, identified himself as being with Brown. That person was later identified as Dorian Johnson. After observing Johnson and reviewing the video, I confirmed he is the second suspect in this incident.
                            Obviously, I have no idea what hasn't been produced -- and we know that some things haven't been -- or the truth of any of it.
                      •  Followup... (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Anak, VClib

                        They got the disc of the surveillance video on 8/10. They served a warrant for the store's hard drive on 8/15. That's probably what the owner was talking about.

          •  Well, ya, if the journalist isn't getting (29+ / 0-)

            arrested, or zip tied, or roughed up, one of them might find an answer .... although they'll be risking a lot just by asking a question these days, in the police state that is Ferguson.


            Information is power. But, like all power, there are those who want to keep it for themselves. Aaron Swartz

            by Lisa Lockwood on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:24:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  What about Brown's friend saying, (12+ / 0-)

          via his attorney, that they did commit a robbery?  Or did he just say they were the two guys in the tape?

          •  I'm wondering the same thing. Seems the (11+ / 0-)

            lawyer said he had admitted early on to the FBI that they lifted some. I've also saw where he stated the clerk kept giving them the wrong ones. I've just been assuming they bought some and took some.

            •  We haven't even heard directly FROM the lawyer (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vcmvo2, elwior, sidnora

              so there's a great likelihood of distortion in what we have heard.

              Ever play "telephone"?

              If it's
              Not your body,
              Then it's
              Not your choice
              And it's
              None of your damn business!

              by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:46:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

                  •  That's more than I can say. Link? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    vcmvo2, Jose Bidenio

                    Or has the footage "mysteriously" gone missing?

                    If it's
                    Not your body,
                    Then it's
                    Not your choice
                    And it's
                    None of your damn business!

                    by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:39:37 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  How could anyone ever link to this stuff. (4+ / 0-)

                      I've watched so much footage from so many places, I have no idea of where I saw what anymore. Info overload. I tried bookmarking some of it, but that got out of control too. Just not enough time to take care of it properly and gave up. Sorry, wish I could link it. It was probably a local station or on msnbc as those are most of my sources. It's probably hard to find now. I haven't heard anything from his lawyer since the day after his statement when this tape was released. He made these statements right after it was released and I don't recall the date, that might help you find it. The lawyer's name is Freeman Bosley Jr. He's tight lipped now as it should be. The jury pool is now tainted beyond repair I fear.

                      •  Whoops replied to the wrong comment. Sorry. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Heart of the Rockies, BvueDem
                      •  Most of what we have watched on TV (5+ / 0-)

                        has been on MSNBC, so I likely saw it on Hayes' or Maddow's shows.  I agree that it's impossible to keep a personal data base, so to speak, on all these things you read or see on such a  complex happening.  But I definitely heard the attorney within a day or two of the release of the tape.

                      •  You've been asked more than once to link.. (0+ / 0-)

                        .. and you can't do it.

                        Do you really believe that anyone's lawyer would admit to theft before even being charged? Wouldn't that be straight up legal malpractice? I suppose it wouldn't if Dorian gave permission to his lawyer to admit guilt, but Dorian's action of putting the blunt wrappers (let's face it, that's what they are, there in Ferguson, in Colorado, in Cali, in Washington, and in every other fully legal and medically legal locale, and in every state in between, that's what they are) back on the counter pretty much exonerates him so I doubt he would go around telling his lawyer to tell everyone that he committed a crime that is likely punishable by 5+ years in MO.

                        I saw his lawyer admit that it was him, Johnson, in the video. That's it. I think I also saw Crump admit or stipulate that it looked like Michael in the video. Nobody admitted theft. If you think so, link it, or stfu.

                        I have wondered since first viewing the video how Michael and Dorian thought they could just mosey down the street after stealing from a store with cameras, if that is in fact what happened. Which of course made me think that's not what happened. I heard suggestions that they were carded, which I have witnessed locally angers all ages of people. Me, at my age, I like it and take it as a compliment. But I've seen old people get all unruly with a cashier.

                        “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                        by Jose Bidenio on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:34:42 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Why don't you try doing the Google thing yourself (19+ / 0-)

                          before telling someone to "link it or stfu"?

                          This took me about 30 fucking seconds to locate at MSNBC:

                          In an interview with msnbc shortly after the report was released, Johnson’s lawyer confirmed that Brown had taken cigars from the store.

                          “We see that there’s tape, that they claim they got a tape that shows there was some sort of strong-armed robbery,” said Freeman Bosley, Johnson’s attorney. “We need to see that tape, my client did tell us and told the FBI that they went into the store. He told FBI that [Brown] did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.”

                          In an interview earlier this week, Johnson described the events of the shooting but did not mention that he and Brown had been in a convenience store just before, or that Brown had stolen anything.

                          Inside of me are two dogs. One is mean and evil. The other is gentle and good. The two dogs fight all the time. Which dog wins? The one I feed the most.

                          by bakeneko on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:55:02 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Thank you. Waiting for Jose's apology. nt (5+ / 0-)
                          •  I'm not. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BvueDem

                            But you're welcome.

                            Inside of me are two dogs. One is mean and evil. The other is gentle and good. The two dogs fight all the time. Which dog wins? The one I feed the most.

                            by bakeneko on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:08:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Keep waiting. Take does not equal stole. nt (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            jrooth

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:02:08 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Stolen means stolen, though. (8+ / 0-)
                            A lawyer for Mr. Johnson said that his client was interviewed by the F.B.I. and the St. Louis County police last week for nearly four hours. In that interview, Mr. Johnson admitted that he and Mr. Brown had stolen cigarillos from the store, said the lawyer, Freeman R. Bosley Jr.
                            NYT
                          •  Hearsay, how does it work? That article is like (0+ / 0-)

                            your pathetic display here. You can't link Dorian or his lawyer admitting to theft, nor can the author of that article.

                            Viewing the video, Dorian pretty clearly did not commit theft, nor was he charged, so why would he admit to stealing, which is what that NYT article claims, that they both stole? Perhaps the NYT's writers confuse took and stole too.

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:43:40 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Run, Forrest, Run...come back when you have (0+ / 0-)

                            evidence and learn the difference between took, take-out and stole.

                            Perhaps Brown did steal, but there is no beyond a reasonable doubt evidence yet, unless you think that take means stole. But you and your clan are all too ready to believe it. Now why is that?

                            And there is zero evidence that Dorian stole, so why would he or his lawyer admit to it?

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:59:35 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Okay, this is grasping at straws (5+ / 0-)

                            I would strongly advise quitting while you're ahead.

                            This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

                            by Ellid on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:55:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  My advice? (0+ / 0-)

                            Quit before getting farther behind.

                          •  wow dude. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BvueDem, bakeneko, Villanova Rhodes

                            Stop. re-read.

                            “The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all or cannot do so well for themselves”- Lincoln

                            by commonscribe on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:22:04 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The source is Freeman R. Bosley- Johnson's Lawyer (6+ / 0-)

                            Enough. There are so many injustices playing out in Ferguson, it is admittedly hard to keep track... but let's please focus on the factual ones.

                            This question has been settled. Most recently in today's New York Times

                            A lawyer for Mr. Johnson said that his client was interviewed by the F.B.I. and the St. Louis County police last week for nearly four hours. In that interview, Mr. Johnson admitted that he and Mr. Brown had stolen cigarillos from the store, said the lawyer, Freeman R. Bosley Jr.

                            “The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all or cannot do so well for themselves”- Lincoln

                            by commonscribe on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:31:17 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Let's focus on the RELEVANT facts. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            commonscribe

                            Whether the kids stole cigars or not, whether the cop knew anything about a theft or not, whether the kids admitted to theft or not, PETTY THEFT DOES NOT WARRANT EXECUTION OF AN UNARMED KID, ESPECIALLY WITHOUT DUE PROCESS.

                            I expect the feds to bring charges of violation of civil rights under color of the law, regardless of whatever state prosecutors do.

                          •  I don't care what the times said. The tape of (0+ / 0-)

                            Bosley clearly states that Bosley said stole. Lawrence ripped that NYT article to shreds, the day after I called it and your group here "pathetic".

                            Dorian nor his lawyer would ever admit to a crime that would expose Dorian to a felony murder charge. And Dorian  is certainly not going to admit to theft when he clearly put the cigars back on the counter and left the store with nothing. Again, a strong-arm robbery charge or any felony would expose Dorian to a felony murder charge. I don't even need a video or an NYT article to tell me that Dorian nor his lawyer is admitting to a felony here with the statute of limitations running.

                            But there is a video. The one everyone with a confirmation bias, including most of you in here and including the NYT misheard, clearly shows Bosley stating that they admitted to taking cigars, not stealing.

                            Again, I don't want an apology, and I'm not about to apology for your mistake, and this site is way too apology happy, but you could try to get your facts straight in the future before you willingly believe sloppy reporting and mistakenly see and hear what you want to hear, or what your confirmation bias causes you to hear, before smearing another person shot dead by a hail of bullets from a police officer or anyone else.

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:08:53 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ok Jose (4+ / 0-)

                            I hate it when the GOP does this sort of thing but I loathe it in ways that make my skin crawl when people on my own side do it.

                            The gentle person directly quoted from the news story on MSNBC what the lawyer said - which YES is a direct admissible statement regarding what his client has told authorities including that they in fact did steal.  No questions, no quibbles no dodges no ducks.  He said it - now, you do owe an apology.  Act like an adult.  Offer it.  Reality may or may not differ from the admission given, but you can and always should act like a real person, which among other things includes admitting when you are wrong, and you were.

                            That of course does not change the fact that the young man was murdered.  BUT it does mean that in the particular discussion you were having, the other gentleman was right and you were wrong.  Live with it and move forward.

                            Regards.

                          •  I'm not owed an apology from anyone (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BvueDem

                            as I made no claims of any kind. All I did was link and quote what Freeman Bosley said on TV.

                            I certainly do think Bosley ought to clarify his statement, but as the FBI have told him that Dorian is not going to be charged with anything (and yes, there is video of that on CNN - interview with Don Lemon), he probably feels it best at this point not to say anything further, at least until Wilson is arrested and charged.

                            Interestingly, Bosley actually uses the word "robbed" and then walks it back to "took" during the interview. Given that sort of clumsiness ( or incompetence?) in an interview with the media, for his client's sake, he is probably best off staying away from the camera for a while.

                            Inside of me are two dogs. One is mean and evil. The other is gentle and good. The two dogs fight all the time. Which dog wins? The one I feed the most.

                            by bakeneko on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:50:26 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's not interesting, it's proof that Bosley (0+ / 0-)

                            did not say Dorian and Brown stole anything. It's also proof that you and the rest of the above orangenecks are dead wrong. And so is the NYT, or should I say the NYT is no angel. That was from the same NYT article Lawrence lit up over 2 days, beginning the day after I called that article pathetic.

                          •  He did not say steal as the post below makes (0+ / 0-)

                            clear with linked video confirms.

                            Lemon mentions robbery, the police called it a strong-armed robbery, so Bosley begins by saying the officer knew nothing about a robbery, and then he immediately corrects himself and said they took cigars.

                            Bosley and certainly not Dorian is going to admit to a potential felony that would expose Dorian to a felony murder charge.

                          •  Keep waiting. My name isn't Earl claimed that (0+ / 0-)

                            Dorian and others admitted to theft which is false. He can't link that, nor can you. You found someone claiming that Brown took cigars, which is not theft and which you would do after paying, you'd take them with you. Ever heard of Take-Out?

                            God, this site has become so fucking dumb and overrun with Orangenecks.

                            Yeah, I'm out. Troll on, Orangenecks.

                            Just funny. I'll never forget how the most famous, most popular person on here, Slinkerwink called the POTUS an Affirmative Action Prez and then deleted it. Yeah, she's a Proud Texan. lol Supports the death penalty too.

                            Whatever, my brothers and sisters should seriously consider voting for Rand Paul because these Orangenecks are not the answer. Fuck, Nixon is a Dem. Manchin, Reid too. Forget about any Dems from Louisiana. Obama has figured it out. And Black Kos should too. I know I have.

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:18:22 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  This (9+ / 0-)
                            Whatever, my brothers and sisters should seriously consider voting for Rand Paul
                            tells me all I need to know about you.

                            "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

                            by sidnora on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 05:04:22 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Rand Paul would have been fine with it (6+ / 0-)

                            Rand Paul has already said that he doesn't care if a drone or a cop shoots a suspect leaving a liquor store with fifty bucks and a weapon.

                            Take Rand Paul and his vote against civil rights legislation and put it in a place where it is dark.  It should never see the sun again.

                            Please never support Rand Paul's ministry again.

                            Streichholzschächtelchen

                            by otto on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:41:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Google skillz. I lacks dem. (0+ / 0-)

                            Inside of me are two dogs. One is mean and evil. The other is gentle and good. The two dogs fight all the time. Which dog wins? The one I feed the most.

                            by bakeneko on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:40:40 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What the heck? I never called him a (0+ / 0-)

                            Affirmative Action Prez. That's an outright lie. Back it up.

                          •  Take does not equal stole as I note below. nt (0+ / 0-)

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:57:53 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm not trying to rationalize (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            bakeneko, Dr Swig Mcjigger

                            I think  we'll next be finding out what he meant by "take."

                            Streichholzschächtelchen

                            by otto on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:38:31 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Didn't see this before. You do see that your own (0+ / 0-)

                            quote says "taken" and "take", and it doesn't say stolen, right?

                            Oh, it does say stolen, but in the negative:

                            In an interview earlier this week, Johnson described the events of the shooting but did not mention that he and Brown had been in a convenience store just before, or that Brown had stolen anything.
                            Nice detective work, Columbo.

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:20:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Oh, give it a rest. (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          bakeneko, Demeter Rising, gramofsam1

                          Lots of us saw versions of it.

                          “We see that there’s tape, that they claim they got a tape that shows there was some sort of strong-armed robbery,” said Freeman Bosley, Johnson’s attorney. “We need to see that tape, my client did tell us and told the FBI that they went into the store. He told FBI that [Brown] did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.”
                          MSNBC

                          In the original version from the horse's mouth, I heard DJ use the word "we" in describing the store incident but that's ambiguous enough. As I said elsewhere, I think he was smart enough to put back the ones Brown tried to hand him, and there's nothing on the video to indicate that the much smaller DJ did anything to warrant a robbery charge. He's in no grave danger of any prosecution, and the authorities have as much as said so.

                          •  None of you saw versions wherein Dorian or (0+ / 0-)

                            his lawyer or Crump admitted to theft or robbery, which is what is claimed above and to which I objected.

                            Like I said in a post months ago, Orangenecks are far too common on this site.

                            BvueDem is an obviously a right-wing troll throwing up his looting and shooting post, because we need to know that those people are more dangerous than you know.

                            And MeteorBlades, the gun fetish guy who has better aim than cops, according to his own posts, when did he buy his first gun? I'm thinking '95.

                            I remember MeteroBlades once banned me for stating that Dr. Laura should break a leg (common theater expression) after she went on her nigger, nigger, nigger rant. But he marched, yo.

                            Lots of people march for animal rights too, but they would never believe that their pets should become their leader.

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:09:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes. I saw exactly that. (5+ / 0-)

                            You said:

                            Nobody admitted theft. If you think so, link it, or stfu.
                            THEY DID. Theft, not robbery. I've been all over the place objecting to "robbery" but yes, both Dorian and his lawyer have been admitting to the theft. I've suggested elsewhere this is a GOOD idea, to make him seem more honest and believable when he has to describe the killing should this ever come to trial.

                            I don't even want to know what the rest of your comment means. I think we're done. Knock yourself out rewriting comments you can't delete. You acted like a jerk and got caught out. It's a big club, not a fatal offense.

                            But if you had any honesty, you'd admit your mistake and move on.
                            Have a good night/morning/whatever.
                          •  Admitting to a felony does not make you more (0+ / 0-)

                            believable, especially when you were not guilty of a felony.

                            There is no way in hell that Dorian would admit to a felony there. He clearly put the cigars back on the counter. He does not appear to have anything in his hands leaving the store. You'd have to be a total idiot to admit to a felony there, especially without immunity and with Statute of Limitations still running.

                            You keep repeating that they admitted theft, as if that will make it true. You can't link it, nor can the times, My name isn't Earl, or BvueDem. Just repeat, repeat the same unsupported nonsense. Prolly learned that at Fox, which is where I think most of you usually hang out.
                            Yeah, the rest of the comment was not for you, and it stands as written. This site is overrun with

                            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:55:14 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  In this interview with Sharpton, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ellid

                            the attorney says it was more like shoplifting than robbery:

                            http://www.msnbc.com/...

                          •  You are splitting hairs (0+ / 0-)

                            And incidentally coming across as belligerent and somewhat obnoxious.  

                            Take your shot, drop this, and move on.

                            This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

                            by Ellid on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:57:21 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  And those videos of Dorian and his lawyer and .. (1+ / 2-)
                        Recommended by:
                        cville townie
                        Hidden by:
                        BvueDem, falconer520

                        Crump are all over the net. You could link it if you could or if you wanted to. I think you are FOS and you know it. Or you just misremembered. But if you had any honesty, you'd admit your mistake and move on.

                        “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                        by Jose Bidenio on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:46:55 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  From the New York Times (4+ / 0-)
                A lawyer for Mr. Johnson said that his client was interviewed by the F.B.I. and the St. Louis County police last week for nearly four hours. In that interview, Mr. Johnson admitted that he and Mr. Brown had stolen cigarillos from the store, said the lawyer, Freeman R. Bosley Jr.

                NYTimes

          •  Not robbery, but that they took the items (9+ / 0-)

            (though, frankly, I think DJ was smart enough to put his back and let Michael be the actual thief).

            It was NOT reported as a robbery and it was NOT broadcast as a robbery. The initial call was "stealing in progress" and it did not get re-classified as a strong-arm robbery (and thus a felony) until the day after it happened. Two reasons: (1) there was an opportunity to look at the video surveillance and observe the physical contact, and (2) ... well, I'll leave it to everyone to figure out their own reason for wanting to make a misdemeanor into a felony and depict a victim as a violent guy towering over a tiny shopkeeper.

      •  Most people probably bever took the time... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior

        to watch the whole video, but millions saw the 4 photos released by the PD. Hardly tells the whole story. And without audio who knows what was really happening.

      •  apparently the customer who called was reporting (0+ / 0-)

        him for being uppity.

    •  Johnson admits he and Brown stole the cigars (3+ / 0-)

      "A lawyer for Mr. Johnson said that his client was interviewed by the F.B.I. and the St. Louis County police last week for nearly four hours. In that interview, Mr. Johnson admitted that he and Mr. Brown had stolen cigarillos from the store, said the lawyer, Freeman R. Bosley Jr." NYT - 8/19/14

    •  We have already seen (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      StrayCat, juanitaf13659

      slander as the justification for racist murder in the case of Treyvon.  I'm not a lawyer, but Faux Spews seems quite ripe for a civil slander suit.  

      Warren/Grayson 2016! Yes We Can!

      by BenFranklin99 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:49:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is it only me, or (59+ / 0-)

    shouldn't we put all the cops in jail for use of excessive force?

    If I were related to Michael Brown, I'd be suing everyone in charge in the stupid state of MO.

    English usage is sometimes more than mere taste, judgment and education - sometimes it's sheer luck, like getting across the street. E. B. White

    by Youffraita on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:41:05 PM PDT

  •  To the right, this doesn't matter. (32+ / 0-)

    He was buying cigarillos.  And everybody knows that the only reason that people buy those is to smoke marijuana.

    30, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:44:03 PM PDT

  •  Has the actual store owner/clerk… (37+ / 0-)

    …confirmed whether or not they were paid for?

    I only see statements denying that they were the ones who called 911.

    Am I missing something?




    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ Garcia

    by DeadHead on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:48:53 PM PDT

    •  Denying that they called 911 (24+ / 0-)

      is practically an admission that there was no robbery (because, really, why would you NOT call 911 if you were robbed?)

      30, white male, TX-07 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

      by TDDVandy on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:03:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think it's time that the witnesses (21+ / 0-)

      shut up. Let the lawyers who are on our side gather the evidence.  We saw it with the Zimmerman case, did us NO GOOD to pre-play the damning evidence.  I'm thinking there are tons of witnesses and the fewer of them who go public in this moment the better for when this case is tried.  We need justice more than we need the convenience store owner and employees to satisfy our curiosity.

      On the other hand... where the FUCK is the incident report??

      If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

      by nancyjones on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:39:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Via NY Times... (6+ / 0-)

        A mind like a book, has to be open to function properly.

        by falconer520 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:46:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'd say "fuck you!" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kharma

          but I'm a stranger to you so you might take it the wrong way and get all offended.  I do not wish to offend anyone. So instead, I'll simply say that this was not the incident report to which I was referring.

          If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

          by nancyjones on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:52:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This was said in all good humor (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BvueDem, elwior, kharma, NoBlueSkies

            Please forgive me if it did not come across that way :)

            If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

            by nancyjones on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:55:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Wow... (8+ / 0-)

            In a diary about the alleged store "robbery" you asked for the incident report...

            We need justice more than we need the convenience store owner and employees to satisfy our curiosity.

            On the other hand... where the FUCK is the incident report??

            I was attempting to be helpful and answer your question.

            A mind like a book, has to be open to function properly.

            by falconer520 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:02:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Am not dissing you (6+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Chi, indie17, FogCityJohn, elwior, kharma, otto

              sorry, my focus is on the injustice of a teenager being murdered and the power structure's attempt to divert everyone's attention from the fact that a teenager was murdered.  Feel that the murder of the teenager is WAY MORE IMPORTANT than whatever happened at the 7-11 that the owner and employees didn't feel was important.

              The incident report I'm interested in is that little incident that involved a teenager being shot 6 times in broad daylight by a uniformed cop.

              If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

              by nancyjones on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:40:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  and then he died (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mkor7, kharma, drmah

                on the street, blood and brains scattered everywhere. Meanwhile, the murderer drove off in the car that contained EVIDENCE. But we'll never know the real EVIDENCE, now will we? I almost said "sorry" again but you know what? I'm NOT sorry. I'm pissed, MAJOR LEAGUE pissed, and I'm not gonna shut up, cuz it's true.

                No justice, No peace.

                If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

                by nancyjones on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:57:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Actually, the store event is relevant (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                winkk, BvueDem, peregrinus

                A big part of the Ferguson PD story is that Michael Brown was trying to grab the gun from the officer who subsequently fired the lethal shots. If Brown had stolen goods from the store, the narrative goes that he would have been in a antagonistic mind set owing to fears of being arrested.

                Yes, this narrative does not make much sense under any circumstances but if Mr. Brown had not stolen anything, then his presumed state of mind would not be an issue.

                •  OH MY FUCKING GOD (5+ / 0-)

                  An eighteen year old got murdered and people are obsessing on the child's state of mind and NO-FUCKING-BODY is obsessing on the adult cop who murdered the child.  This makes me sick.

                  If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

                  by nancyjones on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:18:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree but (4+ / 0-)

                    my point was not obsessing about anything.

                    I was talking about the emerging rationales that the Ferguson PD is likely to use as a means to justify the shooting.

                    It is not a random coincidence that they released the truncated video, floated the term strong armed robbery and statements about Brown attacking and charging the officer.

                    It appears that they want to make a case that Brown was in some "on the run" after the alleged robbery and panicked when approached by the police officer.

                    If there was no robbery, a major component of the official cover story falls apart

                    As we learned in the Trayvon Martin case, the legal rationales matter quite a bit because they frame how juries see the evidence.

                    •  I'm WAY emotional about this at the mo (0+ / 0-)

                      and I'm not sure that's a bad thing. And I want it fixed. And I don't see a path to fixedness being laid. Am not sure there's a cool head in the bunch. The only thing I know for sure is that it is WRONG that our children are being killed by the people we spend our tax dollars pay to ensure our safety.  

                      If you don't like it, attack the message, not the messenger. The former may convince me that I am wrong, but the latter will always convince that I am right.

                      by nancyjones on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:46:01 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Does it follow that someone in a "panic" would (0+ / 0-)

                      just walk out of the store they just stole something from, then stroll on down the street, in the middle of that street, and then just told the officer he was almost home?  I highly doubt that.  That would take some serious guts, self-control, and confidence   from both of these young men.  Something not too common for anyone let alone these two.  And then, to top if off, they go all aggressive and try to take the cops gun.  

                      All this based on a video tape that doesn't actually show anything.

                      America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, uh...um...and if you can't swim? SHAME ON YOU!

                      by Back In Blue on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:04:29 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  18 year old = adult (0+ / 0-)

                    Regardless of any other factors, Michael Brown wasn't a child.

                •  NO (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  EastcoastChick

                  It's not relevant at all. It's completely beside the point.

                  The point is that we should be able to rely on police officers to make the more thoughtful choice when it comes deciding when to use force.

                  The idea that we can sit here and pretend that this has some bearing on this case is ludicrous.  

                  He shot at the kid in the street AS BROWN RAN AWAY. The kid turned around. The officer started shooting again until the gun was empty.  

                  If you cannot hire and train competent police officers, then you have no business running a police department.  

                  It is far better to let the suspect run than to shoot an unarmed person, regardless of whether the poorly trained police officer feels threatened or not.

                  Feeling threatened by criminals is part of the job.  You take a risk.  That  means you may be the one who gets hurt sometimes, but by being able to restrain yourself from using deadly force, you preserve the entire legal system.

                  Streichholzschächtelchen

                  by otto on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:15:45 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Remember the Trayvon Martin trial (0+ / 0-)

                    Evidence and testimony are never presented in a vacuum.

                    The Ferguson PD are floating a justifying story that is intended to muddy up the eye witness testimony and create doubt that the shooting may have been justified.

                    You may have the case settled in your mind but what  matters in terms of due process happens in the court room proceedings.

                    Saying that the arguments the Ferguson PD will use to justify are irrelevant is letting emotion trump prior knowledge of how police departments have historically rallied to defend officers under suspicion of using undue force. Do a little research and you will see that officers have been cleared off wrong doing when a preponderance would have suggested a very different outcome.

            •  Tks. Was incident report based on call from Afr-Am (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Demeter Rising, gramofsam1

              woman? It's not clear. The description of the incident uses the female pronoun to describe the person who called in to report the theft. In the video above, only one woman is visible, although I assume the store is big enough there could have been other women present. (She enters at 0:30, may have a cell-phone in her right hand, seems to have a small child with her, Brown looks at her closely).

              I can only imagine how horrible she (or whoever called in) feels, if she thinks that in any way she contributed to Michael's death.

              The incident report (p. 6 of 18 in the PDF) states (I've added the witness/clerk, to fill in the gaps):

              [Witness] had just come out of the restroom and returned to the counter where she observed Brown tell [store clerk] that he (Brown) wanted several boxes of cigars. As [clerk] was placing the boxes on the counter, Brown grabbed a box of Swisher Sweet cigars and handed them to Johnson who was standing behind Brown. [Witness] witnessed [clerk] tell Brown that he had to pay for those cigars first. That is when Brown reached across the counter and grabbed numerous packs of Swisher Sweets and turned to leave the store. [Witness] then calls '911'. Meanwhile, [clerk] comes out from behind the counter and attempts to stop Brown from leaving. According to [witness], [clerk] was trying to lock the door until Brown returned the merchandise to him. That is when Brown grabbed [clerk] by the shirt and forcefully pushed him back in to a dispaly rack. [Clerk] backed away and Brown and Johnson exited the store with the cigars.
              Obviously, this in no way diminishes let alone justifies the horrible murder of Mike Brown, that Darren Wilson appears to have committed.

              And it does not diminish the broader contexts of racism, poverty, discrimination, poor public education, unemployment, wealth inequalities, income inequalities, family challenges, police abuse, militarization of police, lack of community control over 'their' police force, etc etc etc. If anything, it highlights them. :-(

      •  There is no justice, no peace (12+ / 0-)

        if people back off and let the case proceed it will end in McCulloch's grand jury which is being convened. From Democracy Now! Over and over young black men are killed across this country because there is no accountability in a police state. That's what this country has become. The gloves are off and the victims of this inhumanity globally and here are now the criminals who are unworthy of living.    

        http://www.democracynow.org/...

        JAMALA ROGERS: Bob McCulloch has a very ugly history in terms of the prosecution of African Americans in the St. Louis County. Some of those cases have also come back to haunt him in terms of wrongful conviction. So there’s no confidence in his ability to bring justice to the family of Mike Brown or to the Ferguson community. And so that’s why the growing voices are getting stronger and stronger in terms of him stepping back and a special prosecutor being appointed.

        The problem with a grand jury is that anybody who has an understanding of how that works knows that most of the time grand juries are an appendage of the prosecutor. So, when he decided to convene a grand jury, that also escalated people’s anger and outrage that justice was not going to be served.  

        No justice, no peace.
      •  Actually (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        travelerxxx, sidnora, drmah

        I think interviewing the witnesses may be very helpful in getting this to trial. It has to go through a grand jury first, and they get all their info from the police. It is apparently not an adversarial trial-like situation. This is simply to determine whether it should go to trial. So, the police are the only game in town in determining whether or not there is a prosecution. Anything that throws their narrative into doubt, such as eyewitnesses who contradict the police account, should be shown far and wide so the members of the grand jury know there is more to it than what the police may present.

        And, I think it may be protective of the witnesses.

        Good thing the Justice Dept and the FBI are there. It might not be so easy for Ferguson police to do this as per the usual.

        "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." —John Kenneth Galbraith

        by eyeswideopen on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:23:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  here's my opinion on why this video (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gramofsam1

      really isn't worth the conjecture and assumptions made by both sides:

      1. it's immaterial to Michael Brown's death. Even if it shows stealing, last I heard that was not a death penalty offense in the U.S.

      2. It's unclear what it shows. It was produced as a deflection by the police and it's sort of useless to guess what it shows now. It's unclear.

  •  Has anyone asked the store owner exactly what (33+ / 0-)

    happened? I know the attorney for the store said they never called 911, but I haven't heard them say anything else.

    A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. - Greek proverb

    by marleycat on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:48:57 PM PDT

    •  I watched someone show a decent debunking analysis (16+ / 0-)

      of the so-called strong-arm robbery on the TeeVee machine early this morning. Can't seem to find it anywhere online now. But that's not necessary. You can watch the video yourself.

      Nothing was taken from the store. Period.

      Michael Brown and his friend went there to pick up some flavored mini-cigars. They definitely aren't cigar afficionados. I assume that thie video is of them.

      They walked into the convenience store at a moment when nobody was behind the counter and the manager (or owner) might have been elsewhere, too. That's not important.

      Michael Brown spots a whole box of what I assume is the brand they like. He hands the box to his friend.

      A coule of frames later, the counter person appears (the analysis says she was probably exiting the bathroom) and says something to Michael. Michael asks for a small package of cigars, probably the same brand. While it looks like Michael is about to pay for the small package (he seems to hve reaching in a pocket), another person, the store manager / owner, appears in the video and begins speaking with Michael's friend who is still holding the box of cigars, plainly visible with no hint of trying to hide anything.

      I strongly believe that his friend was asked if he was going to pay for that (It's a whole $50 box, not something usually sold to 18 year olds). Michael's whole demeanor changes. Body langwage and facial expression changes from pleasant to what I read as upset.

      The video isn't very clear at this point, but his friend doesn't show much of a reaction to the manager's words and soom steps closer to to counter where he placed the box of cigars. Michael seems to have decided that he wasn't going to buy the small package of cigars.  He never opens it and leaves it on the counter. He appears to be removing his money which he had placed on the counter, reaches down to pick up something he dropped, perhaps money or maybe a cigar or two that he had in his pocket when he entered the store. That's not clear.

      He turns to leave and the manager /owner steps in front of the door blocking Michael's way. The manager didn't see Michael's interaction at the counter. Michael said something to the guy and pushed him to the side so he could exit. Michael is huge, 6 feet+, 300 lbs. And he's 18 and doesn't know his own strength. The manager guy looks very small, perhaps 150 lbs. The guy is surprised, loses his balance for a moment s he stubles into a display rack near the door. He recovers immediately and looks like he gestures and says something to Michael. The dorr hasn't yet closed. Michael turns around, definitely has words directed to the guy as he walks toward the guy in an imposing manner. I would never say that this was threatening behavior at all. He never touches the guy but the guy backs off in a hurry. Anybody would. Michael is a very large young man. He would be imposing if he just stood there.

      Michael and his friend leave the store. They don't look happy. Their hands appear to be empty. The cigar box and the cigar package were left on the counter.

      The owner (through a lawyer - that speak volumes) denies that he called 911. It's been reporte3d that the counter person didn't call. Maybe a customer called. Maybe somebody else robbed the place. But there were no 911 calls made by the owner that day.

      When the "police chief" said they might have seen the stolen box of cigars or even a package of cigars. he was lying. Where might he have gotten that idea? Ya think Michael's killer might have lied?

      Michael's friend was interrogated about the so-called strong-arm robbery.

      No charges were filed. We know why. There was no robbery.

      "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it"

      by GrumpyOldGeek on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:19:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mr. Johnson has admitted they lifted some (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GrumpyOldGeek, drmah

        according to his lawyer's statement right after this tape was made public. The chief released the tape to show the jury pool just what you stated. He's a big imposing guy. He was aggressive to the clerk as he towered over him just prior to the cop having to shoot the big guy in self defense. Mr. Johnson wasn't charged because he didn't commit any crime according to the chief. They already tried, convicted and executed Mr. Brown for jaywalking according to the chief so he can't be charged for lifting a few cigelleros.

        •  Mr. Johnson is in a very vulnerable position (5+ / 0-)

          right now.

          Not to say he's to believed or not believed, but just to point that fact out.

          The UN should give Iraq a restraining order against the US.

          by JesseCW on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:29:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  His lawyer did the right thing, for sure. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gramofsam1

          Eliminating all doubt about shoplifting those damn cigars takes this off the table for the defense. Better to get to the "so what?" discussion without any questions about the "what". The victim lifted a couple of cigars. So what?

          The analysis I watched on the TeeVee concuded that nothing was taken. Others have concluded that this couldn't be determined due to the crappy low res images. I've read about one analyst who was convinced that cigars were lifted.

          But that question has been answered.

          Thank you, Mr Johnson. You and Michael will always be friends. I am so sorry for your loss.

          "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it"

          by GrumpyOldGeek on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:54:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Police Intimidation is real possibility for friend (0+ / 0-)

          What know of plea deal did he get to not be charged with same crime?

      •  i couldn't see where the hands were empty, (0+ / 0-)

        but the video does contradict some of what the report says the 9/11 caller said she saw.  They certainly look like they are going to pay for it, and there is no confrontation until after Brown finishes tying his shoe or whatever.  (I'm not an expert in shoplifting, but i imagine, if you're going to go, you go with untied shoes, or you just shoplift what you have in your hand, not pick up one or two more items.)  

        The report also makes abundantly clear that the incident could not have been the basis for the stop of Brown because of all sorts of "suspect not identified."  This fact alone makes the leak of (some) of the video totally outrageous.  

        My working hypothesis is the shop manager said something humiliating to Brown, which set him off, and then when Wilson stopped him, Brown was in a bad mood and said something else intemperate, with Wilson fatally overreacting.    

        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

        by Loge on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:36:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Were any Cigars (0+ / 0-)

        found on Michael's body or did his friend have any?

  •  The police messed up badly in their use (23+ / 0-)

    of this video. It's only served to backfire on them.
       The Chief of Police in Ferguson really has to go and the Department needs cleaning up badly.

    "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

    by elwior on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:51:09 PM PDT

  •  The register angle would show it, where's that? (37+ / 0-)

    Watch the video closely, his friend does put back a box of something, which was probably the cigars the dispute was about in the first place.  The clerk came out from behind the counter so quickly I don't know if he even saw that a box was put back on the counter.  

    Two things that strike me as odd (well, it all does but in particular):

    1) any convenience store with multiple camera angles will have one above all: the view of the register.  The one that would clarify this whole event.  Where's that tape?

    2) aren't tobacco products supposed to be out of arm's reach in any store?  Even at 6'4" the angle to reach and grab a pack of cigarettes from the overhead display would be practically impossible.  I imagine the clerk had to get the cigars in question from the opposite wall and put them on the counter for the customer.  

    Actually, a third thing: it's been reported that nobody employed by the store called 911, a bystander did.  Who was the clerk, and why haven't we heard anything from him?  

    This whole thing reeks, trying to portray Mike Brown as a "thug".  And it won't work.

    •  I too am curious what the camera view over the (6+ / 0-)

      register shows...

      And since I believe this video was released at the time it was to specifically incite a riot... I have to be suspicious that that angle doesn't support the PD narrative...

      But as to your 3rd point... Only an idiot would come forward and self identify as the clerk. Look what happened to the store after it was identified.

      A mind like a book, has to be open to function properly.

      by falconer520 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:57:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sadly it will for those who only listen to (0+ / 0-)

      hate radio and tv.  I'm sure at this time there is no doubt in their minds that Michael Brown was a "thug."  

      I hate that with all we have to deal with we also have to deal with liars posing as news men and women.  Millions of us know these lies to be true.  Very frustrating.

      The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

      by AnnieR on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:39:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not seeing it.... (22+ / 0-)

    There was an earlier diary that made the same claim with the same footage, which for some reason was deleted.

    Nothing has changed for me, I'm not seeing anything that looks like a normal transaction there to me. The real issue here is does the store say he paid for it, cause I don't think this portion of the video can be used to prove he did pay.

    As far as the store not calling 911, if for example the store owner turns and is told by the customer "I called 911" he may have just assumed it wasn't needed and the police were already en route.

    I wouldn't invest much in the store not dialing 911....yet

    All of this speculation can be resolved....one of the persons there admitted at least something was stolen, does the store owner refute that something was stolen?

    the video is not even remotely convincing to me, and I'm surprised anyone would think it conclusive.

    Religion is like a blind man, in a pitch black room, searching for a black cat that isn't there.....and finding it.

    by fauxrs on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:55:55 PM PDT

    •  It was my diary. (13+ / 0-)

      And I issued an apology and deleted it after commenters made a convincing argument that nothing shows that the cigars were paid for, and that it looks like Brown was trying to grab the smokes and take off.

      I wish I was right the first time, but it's not looking that way.

      You can't simultaneously fire teachers and cruise missiles!-Jon Stewart

      by djtyg on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:58:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      myboo, worldlotus, gramofsam1

      I think what's important, though, is that the police only went to retrieve the video on Friday. And, afaik, they had never mentioned the cigarillos before Friday. The narrative had always been "stopped for jaywalking."

      In other words, surely if Wilson had suspected Michael and Dorian as the cigar thieves, Dorian would have been taken in, the info would have been mentioned at the start, and the video would have been obtained earlier.

      Indeed, Dorian had been talking about having cigarillos from the beginning, at least as early as his interview on Tuesday with Al Sharpton.

    •  I'm not seeing it either, at all. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gramofsam1

      I'd love to see what I'm supposed to be seeing, but I just don't see it.

    •  Riddle me this... why would a kid (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      figbash

      attempting to steal anything d!ck around at the counter that long?  Obviously a transaction at least was attempted.  Maybe he was short of the $$.  It appears he puts back the items.  If this was an intended "robbery" attempt it sure was a clumsy one.  Fergy ain't that big a town.  I suspect the clerk or owner knew the kids.  Why does a customer call the coppers instead of the clerk, owner?  there something fishy in Fergy.

      Follow Connect! Unite! Act! MeetUp events! For live podcasting of your Event contact winkk to schedule.

      by winkk on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:05:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Riddle me this....why would the proprietor (0+ / 0-)

        come out from behind the counter and confront the kid if nothing happened?

        Why does the customer call? because he can call during the event when the shop owner is otherwise engaged. I don't know that's the case but it is certainly a possibility.

        Ultimately we will find out if he stole something, that he stole something, should it prove to be the case, has nothing to do with the shooting. It does have some bearing on the character of the victim, however the character of the victim, doesn't really have any bearing on the shooting either if you ask me.

        Religion is like a blind man, in a pitch black room, searching for a black cat that isn't there.....and finding it.

        by fauxrs on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:15:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sigh (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bryduck, Ellid
          why would the proprietor come out from behind the counter and confront the kid if nothing happened?
          You've never shopped in a hood store have you?

          Those store owners often follow you around, aggressively ask questions like "are you going to buy that?" "Do have enough for that?"

          It is not uncommon for a store owner to be very rude to you, even as you are handing over your money.

          So I don't know if Brown paid, or didn't pay.  But it does not strike me at all as unusual for a store owner to start a confrontation with a customer.  Not at all.

          •  Sigh (0+ / 0-)

            No, I must admit I have very little experience with "Hood stores".

            I take it then that it is not at all uncommon in such places for store owners to harass customers who have fully paid even as they are leaving the store?

            Its not at all uncommon to attempt to block a paid customer from leaving the store, this is what you are telling me?

            The claim being made by Crooks & Liars is that no theft occurred, and that money exchanged hands. I find it hard to fathom why the proprietor would continue to harass a paid customer trying to depart the store, even a rude proprietor.

            I still don't see it.

            I also still don't see why it matters one bit if he stole the cigs or not, I understand and agree that the police released bits of the video to deflect criticism from the officer and to smear Browns character. Stealing cigars shouldn't carry a death sentence. That Brown might not actually be an angel or "gentle giant" is of supreme unimportance to me what happened to him is a crime.

            Religion is like a blind man, in a pitch black room, searching for a black cat that isn't there.....and finding it.

            by fauxrs on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:31:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  The thing is of course that what, if anything (37+ / 0-)

    happened at that store is purely academic as it had nothing whatever to do with what happened out on the street.

    "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

    by elwior on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:02:14 PM PDT

  •  Part of me wants to feel even worse (28+ / 0-)

    that Michael wasn't stealing — but honestly, it just doesn't make it more tragic. He received the death penalty for walking in a road, or maybe for taking a few cigars, or maybe for nothing at all... Faux News fans are trying to find a reason to justify what happened, but it can't be done. Stoned or not; petty theft or not; leaving a sidewalk; having an attitude towards the policeman. None of it comes close to explaining drawing a weapon, let alone using it. Over and over and over and over and over and over again.

    And I see lots of mentions about the man charged with destruction of property, but only once have I read the backstory. He missed his exit on the highway. He missed his exit and turned around and was stopped by the police. His name matches someone else  — and he said it wasn't him, but he was arrested anyway. And beaten. And charged on the only ridiculous thing they could come up with. He missed his fucking exit...

    “Poverty doesn’t only consist of being hungry for bread, but rather it is a tremendous hunger for human dignity.” Mother Teresa

    by theKgirls on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:04:57 PM PDT

  •  He still shoved the clerk. (7+ / 0-)

    Which is what will make up people's minds about Michael Brown, unfortunately.  

    This argument is a dead end.  Bush league.  Let  it lie.

    "Fighting for us, good. Winning, better. Talking about fighting? Not so good."--Atrios

    by andrewj54 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:11:11 PM PDT

  •  You think Crump and the family (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anak, gramofsam1

    just rolled over on this?

    Come on.

    "Fighting for us, good. Winning, better. Talking about fighting? Not so good."--Atrios

    by andrewj54 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:12:19 PM PDT

  •  Too late, the damage is done. (9+ / 0-)

    The Court of (white peoples') Opinion has already accepted the "strong arm robbery" by "a thug" who was "high on pot" and "berserk".
    You can show the actual coins he used to buy the cigars and the register slip, won't matter, case closed.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:15:31 PM PDT

  •  Diary last night on this video was deleted (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Homers24, 88kathy, gramofsam1

    Not sure why, but curious if anyone knows.

    Voting straight party D 'til there's no GOP...
    Oh and the name is Jim, not Tim, the user name is a typo

    by jusjtim35 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:23:29 PM PDT

  •  So he "stole" cigars that it turns out he bought (9+ / 0-)

    And was supposed to have been high on pot even though he just bought some cigars. Is it common in Ferguson, MO, for a young black man to smoke pot after having stolen cigars that he just paid for? What's the rabbit hole situation there, and has Alice been spotted recently?

    What next, it turns out that he was munching on some Skittles and talking to his girlfriend while high on store-bought stolen pot cigars?

    This is surreal. And tragic.

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:24:06 PM PDT

  •  shifting stories as now now the winger (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluezen, sethtriggs, Kingsmeg, mkor7

    Wurlitzer has seized upon the possible presence of THC in Brown's body and run amok with speculation that the presence of this could herald the presence of other drugs or that weed is usually consumed with other drugs that would make people react violently (why not just say PCP? It is where you want to go) or the weed could have been laced with other drugs or weed could mask greater addictions to more dangerous drugs and so on.

    Not since Reefer Madness premiered has the Demon Weed been so excoriated

  •  and more to the point (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sethtriggs, OllieGarkey, vcmvo2
    Petty theft is not a capital crime.
    --- Police are not the entity that tries, convicts, or punishes a suspect.

    But, as it happens, murder can be a capital crime in Missouri if "a murder was "part of a pattern of criminal street gang activity."  http://statelaws.findlaw.com/...

    I don't know what else you can call law enforcement in Ferguson, if you can not call it a pattern of criminal street gang activity.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

  •  So? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    andrewj54

    you think this is going to change anyone's opinion on the matter?

  •  I posted this yesterday... (8+ / 0-)

    and then issued a correction and deleted the diary because I was wrong about it.

    The video doesn't show Brown paying for the cigars. It shows him reaching behind the counter and taking them.

    I really wish that wasn't the case, as it would destroy the right wing's attempts to demonize the man, but the video only backs up him stealing the cigars.

    There's also the fact that the store owner has never said that the cigars weren't stolen.

    You can't simultaneously fire teachers and cruise missiles!-Jon Stewart

    by djtyg on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:54:15 PM PDT

    •  Only thing wrong was you were too affirmative (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PeterHug, worldlotus, OllieGarkey

      A "Maybe" would have made it a valid opinion diary. Or a question - "DID he really steal those cigars?"

      I can't tell whether he paid (intended to pay) for them or not. It's rather too brazen for shoplifting, though - that's generally more furtive.

      The way it reads to me is that there was intent to purchase, and then something went wrong. Maybe Mr Brown didn't have enough money with him, maybe he didn't have his ID with him, maybe the store person just thought he was "acting suspicious" (like we haven't known THAT to happen!). Anyway, store person starts hassling him, the transaction is aborted, store person tries to stop him leaving and gets shoved aside.

      I can't be sure Mr Brown didn't boost a handful of cigars during the altercation, out of spite - it would be a very "dumb kid" thing to do, but at 18 most people still ARE "dumb kids".

      We're missing the most crucial angle - the over-the-register one. If that ever sees the light of day, it might settle the question one way or the other - or not.

      If it's
      Not your body,
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      And it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:20:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mr. Johnson stated that the clerk kept getting (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        worldlotus, Explorer8939

        the wrong brand or flavor and that they did indeed lift some.

      •  I agree... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OrganicChemist, gramofsam1

        with you in that maybe Mr. Brown pulled a "dumb kid" thing.

        It certainly did not excuse the cop's actions.

        I'm just saying that it did look like Mr. Brown did shoplift.

        It does NOT, in any way, justify the behavior of the police officer that shot him.

        I'm just saying that the video does not show that the cigars were paid for.

        You can't simultaneously fire teachers and cruise missiles!-Jon Stewart

        by djtyg on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:00:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  At this point, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Villanova Rhodes

          neither Michael Brown's family nor his attorneys are denying that he shoplifted the cigars. The friend who was with him has testified to the FBI that they took the cigars. All of this has been public for days and there are links in these comments to the interviews on msnbc and statements in the NYT. There are links to the statement of the witness who called 911.

          IMO diarist should either delete this or at least include an edit/update. Otherwise, this place could turn into an endless pie war about cigars when it's not about the goddamn cigars, it's not about shoplifting- it's about an unarmed kid who was shot dead by a cop for no apparent reason.

          Focus.

  •  What Is Most Significant To Me (6+ / 0-)

    Are a couple things that really show just how corrupt the Ferguson PD really is. The video they released is so selectively edited it is obvious they were simply trying to assassinate the character of Mike Brown. And second, the vagueness and conflicting stories are also very damning because it proves the Ferguson PD is completely disorganized and dysfunctional at best or trying to cover up a cold blooded murder on the part of one of their officers at worst.

    Collect Different Days

    by Homers24 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:00:33 PM PDT

  •  Autopsy Confirm Witnesses: Shot To The Top Of Head (8+ / 0-)

    Witnesses said the last shot was when the victim was in a kneeling position after being shot in the face.  This is entirely possible - a shot to the head often drops someone straight down like a puppet with its strings cut. He could have come to rest in a kneeling position with his head slumped forward, and the cop could have lined up for the final coup de grace.  This is consistent with the autopsy and this is what the witnesses report.

    The cops version is presumably going to go something like this: that the victim was rushing back towards the cop, got shot in the face, and the cop shot him in the top of the head as he fell.  This would be a one in a thousand shot, since the cop would have only a fraction of a second between shooting him in the face and shooting him again as he fell face down, and the cop would have to recover from the recoil of the shot to the face and lower his weapon to track the victim falling to the ground.  I guess we could make the case that he just closed his eyes and got lucky with the final shot.  But the witnesses version is a lot more believa

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:02:32 PM PDT

    •  a friend of his girlfriend (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      My Name Isnt Earl

      told the media that his girlfriend said he first jumped into the car and wrestled with the cop over his gun, then later, charged the cop.

      •  A friend of THE COP'S girlfriend (10+ / 0-)

        Let's make that explicitly clear.

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:07:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The girlfriend is a cop too. And that woman's (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Chi, vcmvo2, 417els, gramofsam1

        statement sounded very scripted to me. The girlfriend would know just what to say being a cop as well. I don't see a fair criminal trial at this point, so much contamination of the jury pool. And it pains me greatly to say that.

      •  In Videos At The Scene Both Things Are Heard (0+ / 0-)

        Bystanders can be heard saying that he turned back towards the cop and was advancing, but the last shot was fired with him in a kneeling position.  The cops version would still be the miraculous double tap.

        It's not clear (and probably not that important) if he was kneeling in seated position or if he was kneeling on his hands and knees.  Either one is possible.  Whether he was conscious or not would depend on the nature of the face wound and whether he was shot with a 9 mm or a much more powerful .40.  I'm guessing it was a 9 mm since I have not heard much about exit wounds.  

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:35:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  An unknown caller to a RW radio show. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sweatyb, drmah

        Let's make that clear.  Not a witness.  A 3rd party on a call in radio show.

        Yeah that's reliable testimony.  

        • "But such is the irresistable nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing." Thomas Paine
        • "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." Stephen King

        by Tommymac on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:01:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Contradicts the Friend of the Cop's Girlfriend (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      According to her story, the Cop's last shot was in the forehead (face). If this is the cop's story, it's not credible because if the second to the last shot was to the top of Michael's head, he would have dropped dead right there.

      It's also hard to see Michael continuing a bull rush after being shot in the forehead after being shot previously four additional times.

      •  Autopsy Diagram - Wound To Face Then Top Of Head (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Edward Song

        The face wound seems to have one of those complicated trajectories from the collarbone to the eye, and this sort of thing is quite common, especially with a 9mm and hardball ammo.  It would stop someone and might or might not kill someone (but not instantly) and might or might not knock them out cold.  It would probably stop someone in their tracks and make them collapse.

        Then getting shot in the top of the head would render someone unconscious and potentially dead pretty fast (Gabby Giffords was a bit of a lucky fluke).   Witnesses at the scene were taped describing him as very very dead, so apparently it hit at an angle and removed a chunk of skull.

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:31:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  According to the independent autopsy... (3+ / 0-)

          the last head shot was the fatal one.  Without it the others were survivable, probably with proper medical attention.

          And we know the EMT's were promptly called and arrived quickly, and that a nurse on the scene was allowed to give CPR in the meantime....NOT.

          • "But such is the irresistable nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing." Thomas Paine
          • "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." Stephen King

          by Tommymac on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:04:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Having Watched Combat Videos From Syria...... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tommymac, Edward Song

            (warning, graphic language ahead)

            ... when someone gets a fatal head wound they go down like a bag of sand and don't move.  It's also possible to get a head wound and die later, but that is often accompanied by a good bit of twitching and kicking as the brain swells.   But the instantly fatal head wound is something where bystanders can say "Oh yeah, that's a corpse right there."

            Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

            by bernardpliers on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:17:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Ok so I'm not sure about this today... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah

    http://countercurrentnews.com/...
    Store owner doesn't believe it was Mike Brown in his store.  Hires his own attorney?  

    Change is a process, not an event. ~ Joellen Killion

    by sabathiel on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:17:51 PM PDT

    •  now that's weird.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Explorer8939

      but I thought he was identified by his parents as the person in the video? I'd probably believe damn near anything at this point.

      •  No, parents just said it "looked like" him, (0+ / 0-)

        not actually committing themselves to a positive identification. They wouldn't have a lot to go on other than size and what the person in the video was wearing - the angles are horrid.

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:24:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  And the friend (3+ / 0-)

      lied about Brown taking the cigars?

      "Fighting for us, good. Winning, better. Talking about fighting? Not so good."--Atrios

      by andrewj54 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:11:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and within two? minutes, left behind (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Explorer8939, gramofsam1, falconer520

        this unidentified but totally not Michael Brown friend who handed him the Swisher Sweets ... and magically met up with the same-sized Michael Brown.

        That article sounds like the Onion. Sadly, no.

        •  Um...we don't know exactly *what* Johnson (0+ / 0-)

          admitted to - it's another game of "telephone". The media say that the police say that his lawyer says that he said.... Even if you can remove one of those links, that's still a long way from "the horse's mouth".

          If it's
          Not your body,
          Then it's
          Not your choice
          And it's
          None of your damn business!

          by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:29:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I saw the lawyer say it live on tv. I personally (7+ / 0-)

            know the lawyer, he used to be the mayor of St. Louis. He's telling the truth. He says Johnson admitted early on to the FBI they lifted some. The chief says Johnson won't be charged because he didn't commit a crime.

          •  I heard it out of HIS OWN mouth. (6+ / 0-)

            Did he mean something else? OK. If he did, there's been a week+ to clean it up.

            Instead, the next person in the chain -- the lawyer -- acknowledged it as well, and that DJ had reported the same to the FBI from the get-go. They're not dancing around it. They're using it to underscore his honesty so maybe he'll be believed in his account of the killing. Why would we want to undercut that?

            Really, there's a lot to wonder about in this case, but it doesn't include (a) whether that was Michael Brown on the video, or (b) whether the store employee(s?) on that date and time -- not later when they wanted to align themselves with the community, or feared being burned to the ground or worse -- considered the merchandise to have been taken without payment. They did.

            Now, I'm fully prepared to believe that it was trivial enough that they would not have called the cops on their own, and there's probably documentary evidence that could be brought to bear on the issue. Small shopowners have to make those judgment calls all the time, and even if Brown was menacing (not the only possible interpretation), I'd bet the owner sees much worse in the course of business. But that doesn't mean he didn't take the stuff without paying. The police reports indicate willingness to prosecute and a value for the item. They didn't say, "no harm, no foul, customer misunderstood, nothing to see here, officer." They just didn't, even if they wish now that they had.

            This is all a diversion from the scene of the real crime, the extrajudicial execution of Michael Brown.  

            •  They never said the cigars were taken without (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              drmah

              payment. Link it. You can't. So why do you keep repeating that? And the report were all written after Brown was dead.

              “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

              by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:32:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I have linked it. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                falconer520

                "Taken without payment" is pretty much the definition of "stolen." I linked it in a response to you, so surely you're aware that you're not telling the truth here.

                Why are you not telling the truth? Why do you want to distract from the more serious potential crime of murder? Have you even read the parts of the police report that have been released and that you discovered several days after they'd been posted on this site, and some hours after they'd been posted in this very diary?

                Your comments are getting pretty embarrassing.

      •  Well one thing you have to remember (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        worldlotus

        the friend had just seen his friend's head get shot off. So who knows what he said or didn't say. He was a little upset.

        Protest that works comment by nomandates Registration Table Change the culture 100% registration.

        by 88kathy on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:29:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The store owner wasn't there (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OrganicChemist

      and the news story suggests that the store owner doesn't want any trouble, so they are downplaying their role in the events.

      "The Obama Administration has been an unmitigated disaster" - Osama Bin Laden

      by Explorer8939 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:06:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We can't be surprised at this. The entire event so (5+ / 0-)

    ...far has done nothing but instill suspicion in any fair minded observer. We should also realize that the folks who would justify the homicide based on their impression of that video are already too far gone to be reached by the truth.

    You will never see progress if you aren't willing to choose the better choice on the ballot in each and every cycle.

    by sebastianguy99 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:22:15 PM PDT

  •  So the theft of cigarello's (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    myboo, Choco8, Tommymac, donaurora

    in the court of the public opinion led by whacko nasty RWer's  who wouldn't know democracy or our system of justice if it bit them,  trumps real law and justice?  What has happened in this society that allows this lawless violence and killing to even be considered justified by trashing the victim's of our institutionalized racism and violence towards anyone who they decide is a threat.

    A threat to what? The brutal viscous global and domestic  power that runs our country and that thrives by killing looting and oppressing 'the other'. I got news for you,  unless your rich and  powerful your up for it also. If you step out of line your fair game to be killed, jailed, beaten and billed for blooding the cops shirts. Even if your white and privileged you better watch your step cause the real thieves and killers can't have any unrest or resistance to this fucked up version of law and order American style.

     

    •  Actually, it's his skin color (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shaharazade, Steven D, myboo

      that trumps everything for those 'nasty RWers', but they can't say that, so the theft of cigarellos will have to do instead.  I'm sure they're disappointed they haven't been able to dig up anything else, and they're anxiously awaiting reports on THC or anything else the good folks on the Ferguson PD will see fit to 'leak'.

      But there was never any question about how all of this would play out, from the second that racist fuck shot him in the head.  The playbook was written, only the minor details remained to be filled in. And how many more bodies fall on Ferguson streets before the residents of Ferguson accept that nothing is going to change.

      190 milliseconds....

      by Kingsmeg on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:53:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sad but true (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pitbullgirl65, pollbuster, myboo, Kingsmeg

        I know that it's his skin color but I'm so sick of even here on dkos having to hear the trashing of African American  people for bs,  skittles/hoodies and cigarillos and not being properly obsequious. I like your comments throughout this latest outbreak of racist nastiness defended by the lovers of law and order. Thanks.

      •  They have already said they found pot in his (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kingsmeg

        system. But they won't release their autopsy report so we just have to take their word for it.

        •  They've hired a PR firm (0+ / 0-)

          and they're banking on the ADD nature of USA media, so they figure if they do as much character assassination as they can, NOW, while they're in the spotlight, no one will ever give a damn if it turns out they were lying because by the time it comes out the TV trucks will be gone.

          Again, SOP.  I wouldn't be surprised if police have conferences where they discuss this.  "How to defend your racist officer who's just gunned down (another) innocent black man: The Basics - Character Assassination"

          190 milliseconds....

          by Kingsmeg on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:35:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Bet we don't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Steven D

    See this on CNN.

  •  if a 300 pound man was charging (0+ / 0-)

    me, and I had a loaded gun . . . I'd take the high road and  let him bash the snot out me.
    Why did you eliminate the part where he shoved the staffer who was clearly being bullied?

    •  Store person STARTED it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mkor7, Forward is D not R

      He got in "Brown's" face first, he put his hand(s) on "Brown" first, he tried to stop "Brown" from leaving the store. Very not-smart behavior, and not just because it's a little guy getting in a big guy's face.

      "Brown" in quotation marks because there's little to go by but what the big guy was wearing.

      If it's
      Not your body,
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      And it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:35:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  if a 300 pound man ... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tommymac, icemilkcoffee, figbash

      who had already been shot two or three times was charging me, I'd take a step or two to the side so that he would sail right past me. It's not rocket science.

      Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people’s masters. -- President Grover Cleveland, 1888

      by edg on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:55:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Then you wouldn't be a murderer like Darren Wilson (0+ / 0-)

      Good for you hamm.

      • "But such is the irresistable nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing." Thomas Paine
      • "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." Stephen King

      by Tommymac on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:07:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The staffer that put hands on him? That staffer? (0+ / 0-)

      Sorry, grabbing me gets you shoved. If you're a lot smaller than me, I might accidentally send you farther than I planned, but don't put fucking hands on me.

      And I'd like to see how you get the wound pattern the autopsy shows if someone is sprinting at you. What was he doing, holding his arms straight down to his sides? Otherwise, somehow every one of Wilson's shots just happened to hit a moving arm (bent at the elbow and presumably pumping, in a sprint) at just the right time so that they all had roughly the same angle of entry. Sure.

      And how did Wilson get off that many shots in the time an 18-year old can sprint 30-odd feet? You're talking about 2-3 seconds. Maybe.

      Oh, and somehow the last one flipped a 300-lb kid moving at speed - and bent forward - so that his head was laying away from the car. That's "movie physics", friend.

      "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

      by Jaxpagan on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:29:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What's the origin of that story? (0+ / 0-)

      This "he was charging at the officer" narrative has been appearing all over the place, but has any witness actually given that narrative publicly?  Does it seem remotely plausible that Brown would run away from the officer and THEN turn around and run at him while being fired upon? Why latch onto that incredibly unbelievable version of the story and ignore the account that multiple eye witnesses have given in public?  

      I just don't get it.

      "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

      by Triscula on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:03:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  when you have (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    icemilkcoffee, drmah, hayden

    a gun, every poor colored person looks like a nail.

    A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

    by onionjim on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:14:04 PM PDT

  •  I've been around long enough to take an educated (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    catwho, mkor7

    guess ..... the clerk asked for ID (you have to be 18+) and Mr Brown either didn't have it on him or just didn't feel like complying for what ever reason. A tussle ensued. Not enough of one for the store owner/clerk to be bothered pursuing further than the door.

    Just a guess, but it is what most likely fits the observed footage, you do not see Mr Wilson pulling out any ID to make the purchase.

    •  He had bought cigs there before. Might (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Jester

      explain why he wasn't asked for his id. His friend stated the clerk kept giving him the wrong ones.

      •  Link to any evidence that he bought cigars there (0+ / 0-)

        before. Perhaps he did, but I doubt you have any evidence of that.

        In my state, it is now a law that anyone who buys tobacco products must provide an ID, every time they purchase, regardless of age or appearance of age.

        You just seem to be straight making stuff up. Why?

        “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

        by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:25:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  yeah, thought so. Here's just one of your few (0+ / 0-)

        posts here since returning in force over Ferguson and your lie that Dorian or his lawyer admitted to theft:

        "  Redneck is bigotry or fat? (1+ / 0-)

        I'm confused. Most of the rednecks I know are proud of it. And if you are fat, you are fat. It's just a description. Not bigotry. I see the pc police are still alive and well on dk. No idea about the "bigotry"."

        Like I said, Orangenecks, rednecks, all the same.

        “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

        by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:44:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Faux newsies also seem to believe smoking (8+ / 0-)

    marijuana makes people violent. Huh. Never, ever saw a violent toker in my life. Why do they think this?

  •  It really doesn't matter if he stole things or not (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, myboo, JesseCW, fauxrs, Tommymac, mkor7

    He didn't deserve to be executed and the police are 100% wrong for handling it like they did.

    But arguing about whether Brown was a "good guy" or a "bad guy" is the argument the right wing media and the police wants to have. The racists have already decided he's a "bad guy." If we're making the argument that only "good kids" deserve to not be executed by police we're going to lose because the right wingers think that every young black male is a dangerous criminal . . . full stop.

    I hesitate to use this analogy but young black males that are killed are basically treated similar to how rape victims are treated. The cops/killer/right wing media try to drag up any dirt on them that they can to try to show that they're not "good people" and therefore either were asking for it or if they weren't that the crime maybe isn't so bad because the victim is a "bad person."

    It doesn't matter if he stole the cigars or not. It doesn't matter if he was a "good kid" or a "bad kid." He shouldn't have been executed by the police. Who he was

    I think the correct response is "why are you trying to change the subject to Mike Brown? The issue here is that it's not ok to kill an unarmed suspect."

    When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

    by PhillyJeff on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:22:47 PM PDT

  •  How about a FOIA request for the 911 call? (0+ / 0-)

    In the Friday morning news dump that named the cop, the police chief released the video because "he just had to" because of FOIA requests. Lets see the FOIA request and lets hear the 911 call.

    I would not be surprised if they don't exist because this police chief has a recent history of lying to cover his tracks. For example:

    Police chief, "we are not using tear gas"
    Jake Tapper, "you shot tear gas at us"
    Police chief, "ok, we used tear gas"

    Lets call his bluff.


    There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

    by bobinson on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:27:28 PM PDT

    •  Not in Missouri (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Demeter Rising, falconer520
      "911" telephone reports inaccessible, exceptions.

      610.150. Except as provided by this section, any information acquired by a law enforcement agency or a first responder agency by way of a complaint or report of a crime made by telephone contact using the emergency number, "911", shall be inaccessible to the general public. However, information consisting of the date, time, specific location and immediate facts and circumstances surrounding the initial report of the crime or incident shall be considered to be an incident report and subject to section 610.100. Any closed records pursuant to this section shall be available upon request by law enforcement agencies or the division of workers' compensation or pursuant to a valid court order authorizing disclosure upon motion and good cause shown.

      Mo statutes

      You can see what's gettable, when, and by whom,  
      here but I don't have time to wade through it.

      •  Yes, the police chief knew very well what was (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BvueDem

        FOIA-able and what wasn't, and he made it clear in his doc release.

        I'd like to see a FOIA of the FOIA requests, because I don't understand how anyone knew to FOIA the liquor store tapes, unless someone just requested all docs related to that shooting incident/day, but I thought FOIAs needed to be more specific than that.

        “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

        by Jose Bidenio on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:51:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You owe people an apology upthread. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          falconer520

          And you know it. A gracious person would bite the bullet.

          •  That's a disgusting retort in light of events, but (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not surprised you went there.

            There is no evidence that Dorian or his lawyer admitted to theft, which is what you claimed and you are wrong. And you want me to apologize for your mistake? You even stated this:

            "I heard it out of HIS OWN mouth. "

            Which is false, either intentionally, as in you are lying, or you made a mistake. You did not hear that. You have now posted an NYT article wherein reporters state that Dorian's lawyer said that Dorian stated in an FBI interview that he stole cigars with Brown. lol. That's not just hearsay, that's hearsay hearsay. lol Try again.

            That you are willing to go to great lengths to state facts not in evidence is telling.

            Bite the ass, and apologize to yourself, if to no one else. And don't apologize to me, apologize to Michael Brown's parents, and to Michael.

            “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

            by Jose Bidenio on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 02:24:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  This statute needs to be judged Unconstitutional. (0+ / 0-)

        Hope someone takes it to court.

        • "But such is the irresistable nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing." Thomas Paine
        • "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." Stephen King

        by Tommymac on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:11:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Fact check... (0+ / 0-)

      That was not the police chief who made that statement about teargas. He has his own problems, but not that one...

  •  This version leaves out what happens next. (0+ / 0-)

    The clerk comes from behind the counter and passes right next to Brown in the narrow aisle, as Brown picks up his purchase from the floor.

    Each man knew the other was there and neither reacted adversely to the other.

    However there still had to have been something happen to cause the clerk to try to stop Brown as he was going out the door and for Brown to have grabbed and shoved the clerk.

    I'm not nearly so concerned about FOX being biased as I am about the Ferguson police chief who deliberately released misleading information to protect his cop.

    Was that possibly and act of desperation because the chief knows his cop committed murder.

  •  T&R (That "blood on their uniforms" story...) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Forward is D not R
    Just like the time that they [mistakenl] charged a [innocent] man with four counts of destruction of city property for bleeding on their uniforms while they beat him.
    Worth repeating that the man the Ferguson police beat was a case of mistaken identity -- he had the same first and last name, but a different middle name. Not the same guy they were looking for. Not that it should make any difference for the ridiculousness of the charge against him (even if he had been guilty of something else). They beat him. Then they charged him with "destruction" (blood-stains) of "city property" (their uniforms) when his blood got on them.

    This, alone, strikes me as worthy of a civil lawsuit against the officers involved (and any superior officer who read the report and took no action).

    Makes me wonder how many other cases worthy of litigation are sitting in their files.

  •  How does someone with no criminal record.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tommymac

    just decide one day to walk into a local store in his own neighborhood and rob the place on camera and then just walk out the door with a ton of witnesses?

    That never made any sense at all to me.

    Even someone with a criminal record. Who robs or steals from a store like that?

    That never made any sense at all to me.

    And a recent high school graduate? One headed to additional training, college or w/e?

    That never made any sense at all to me.

    Ok, upon reading the police report of the alleged stealing, it should be noted that the report and supplements were written after Michael was dead. The report narrative starts off stating that clerk and patron "who advised that suspect took cigars". Took, not stole. Seems an important distinction. But later in the report, in supplements, the narrative changes to "stealing" and "stole", 3 days later on the 12th.

    That's my initial reading. I will have to re-read as police reports are often disconnected gibberish, which is no accident, imo.

    police report:  

    “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

    by Jose Bidenio on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:17:31 PM PDT

    •  police report (.pdf) would not post, try again... (0+ / 0-)

      “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

      by Jose Bidenio on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:18:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wondering if it's this scenario: (0+ / 0-)

      The clerk sold Michael the cigars, but the manager/owner confronted Michael at the door about being old enough after the clerk had already completed the sale. The cigars would have then been bought, but perhaps not legally.

      We won't know until someone puts the store employees on the stand and/or we get the video from the camera that should have been actually pointing at the register.

      "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

      by Jaxpagan on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:31:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Regardless of other factors... (0+ / 0-)

      ...there are plenty of crimes committed by nice boys and girls, those going to college, those who are promising, etc. It never makes sense, it may be less common, but it can happen.

      Doesn't mean it happened here, just saying it isn't a sure impediment.

      That aside, "took" also doesn't imply "purchased" or "bought".

  •  sad to see this bullshit on the rec list (13+ / 0-)

    The amount of desperate reality denial going on is kind of amazing.

    The surveillance videos don't show anything even remotely interpretable as Michael Brown paying for the cigars. They just don't.

    The store didn't call 911 because a customer did it first.

    Once the police offer responding to the 911 call arrived, the store employees did not say "oh, I'm sorry, Officer, this was just a misunderstanding, that young man actually did pay for his merchandise." Instead, they told the officer they had been robbed and described the suspects.

    It's all in the police report, which people should f'ing read. Also in the police report is the fact the store owners intended to press charges.

    It serves no good purpose to deny simple facts.

    And none of this has anything to do with whether it was justified for the police to gun down an unarmed teenager in the street.

    .

  •  Starting At About :19 On The Video, Money Is (0+ / 0-)

    being thrown at Brown from behind the counter.  Notice the bills that float by Brown's body, near his T shirt, one then another.  Brown then bends over to pick them off the floor.

    So money was being exchanged in the transaction, so much so that the cashier was giving him his change by throwing it toward him.

    "I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman.” - Arnold Schwarzenegger 2003

    by kerplunk on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:23:41 PM PDT

    •  That's not money (3+ / 0-)

      Those are packs of cigars which he is grabbing.  

      There is no money exchanged there, and he never goes to his pockets. He leans way over the counter to grab a bunch of cigar packs, pulls them toward him, drops some on the floor, sets the others on the counter, picks up the ones that are on the floor, and then heads towards the door.

      The woman who witnessed this stated that Brown grabbed a box of Swisher Sweet cigars and handed them to Dorian Johnson, and that the store employee then told Brown he had to pay first, and then Brown reached over the counter to grab more packs of cigars and turned to leave the store. The clerk then tried to lock the door and stop Brown from leaving the store, and Brown grabbed him and pushed him into a display rack.

      That matches exactly what I see on the video.

  •  Don't believe anything coming out of Ferguson PD. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, appledown

    When I saw the Chief Jackson lie to the press when asked about Darren Wilson on Thursday - 12 hours before he "announced" the shooter's name on Friday - I knew then he was capable of lying about anything.  Seeing nameless, sometimes faceless police officers without badges call the residents of Ferguson animals and hurling expletives at women while allegedly keeping the peace and maintaining order makes me think this police department is reminiscent of something out of 1920s Mississippi.  If there ever was any trust it is gone now as is respect and common decency and that's true for the folks of Ferguson exercising their First Amendment rights.  My god what do they do when there are no cameras?  I now understand why the people of Ferguson said on the first night to record everything because no one outside of the town will believe them.

    So whatever Ferguson PD presents has to be looked at skeptically.  Ask yourself is the information complete (the full videotape), is it accurate (other footage shows Mike may have paid for the cigarellos) and is it relevant (hell no).

  •  well, ok... I call bullshit on this one statement: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Choco8, andrewj54, falconer520
    Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee...
    Gee, ya think?  "Perhaps"???

    It is likely that Brown was wrongfully gunned down by police. And the subsequent police response is illegal and disgraceful.  But let's not make a hero out of Brown in general. When you enter another person's place of business, you keep your fucking hands off them.  There is no excuse for Brown's behavior in that store; NONE.  Let's not lose our fucking minds here. The discussion should be is his wrongful death at the hands of a trigger happy cop, not his disgraceful bully act in the store.

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

    by bigtimecynic on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:47:30 AM PDT

  •  This would change my take on tape and the cop-stop (0+ / 0-)

    A couple of days ago, I wrote that the video -- and the events it depicted were certainly "relevant" -- contrary to what leading liberal lights were saying.

    Despite what people were trying to twist my comments into, all I was saying was that if someone had just robbed a bunch of cigars (I"d read it was $50, not $5 -- are there really $5 packages of cigars?) and forced his way into the store, he was probably scared and/or highly agitated when he was stopped by the police -- and that we should try to understand the events in that context, rather than just assume that the cop just bizarrely and horribly shot a black youth for jaywalking.

    I have no idea what we're witnessing here -- which points up the problem in making judgments about the situation without any input from witnesses. It's possible my initial take isn't wrong -- but this video does raise the possibility that this was not a robbery. It would be important to know what happened, but without statements from the clerk, we have no idea. And, again, I say it would be important to know not because it's an indictment of Brown, but because it might provide some context for understanding the interaction between Wilson and Brown. Right now, we know almost nothing about that interaction other than the headline bit about an unarmed black man being shot by a cop.

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

    by FischFry on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 06:15:40 AM PDT

  •  Ferguson Police successfully changed conversation (0+ / 0-)

    among Their supporters to Michael Brown, the menace, instead of Michael Brown the unarmed person who was shot 6 times by a police officer. Meanwhile, they are still stonewalling and probably lying, if you believe the eyewitnesses I have seen. The Right Wing has numerous never-heard-of-before websites easily accessed from prominent RW sites, which have headlines stating the officer had severe injuries caused by Michael Brown.
    How any of that is more important than a cop executing an unarmed person, then leaving his body on the street for hours, in broad daylight, is beyond me.
    People have their priorities.
    The Right Wing thrives on Red Herrings.

    The US ranks 138th out of all 169 voting countries in actual voting. Since 1974, mid-term % of eligible voters who vote avgs. 37%. Democrats would dominate if they did one thing- GOTV. They never do. Curious.

    by Incredulousinusa on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:44:21 AM PDT

  •  Glad the police report is being posted (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    falconer520

    In the comments.  

    The willingness of some people on this site to deceive and delude themselves is breathtaking.

    "Fighting for us, good. Winning, better. Talking about fighting? Not so good."--Atrios

    by andrewj54 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:45:52 AM PDT

  •  Please read the police report and then delete this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    falconer520

    Crap

    "Fighting for us, good. Winning, better. Talking about fighting? Not so good."--Atrios

    by andrewj54 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:51:30 AM PDT

  •  un-fucking-believable (0+ / 0-)

    the ghost of Breitbart past

    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame/Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name/Mother of Exiles.

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:17:43 AM PDT

  •  You don't know what is said (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    appledown

    in that video, and half of what happens can't be seen.
      He doesn't even act like he stole something.

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:28:15 AM PDT

    •  SO, He and the store clerk were hugging? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      falconer520

      NO ONE DENIES HE TOOK THE CHEAP CIGARS! Even his friend who was with him says they took them. THE FACT THAT HE TOOK THEM DOES NOT MATTER! Only the fact he was unjustly assassinated matters. US MAKING STUFF UP HURTS OUR CASE!

      You usually get what you paid for.

      by IowaMike on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:14:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This diary makes us seem crazy. (5+ / 0-)

    The video shows him possibly paying for something. Then it shows that he reached behind the counter and grabbed something else. Then it shows the clerk appearing to try and stop him, and then Mr. Brown shoving him and then physically threatening him. NO ONE DENIES that he took them, not even his friend that was with him. The store doesn't deny that he stole the cheap cigars, just that they made the report which would make sense if they knew someone already called, or they didn't think the cheap cigarettes were worth the bother of working with their crappy police department.

    The facts of the shooting itself are what are important. None of these actions justify him being gunned down. Making crap up ourselves doesn't help our case.

    Please remove this post.

    You usually get what you paid for.

    by IowaMike on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:31:16 AM PDT

  •  what kinda blunts (0+ / 0-)

    cost $50 damn dollars!

  •  Storte videos (0+ / 0-)

    Unless I'm reading it wrong, the police incident report indicates there were a total of 7 cameras in the store.  At least one outside. It looks as though the video is from two cameras.  Where are the other 5?  

  •  I think everyone is missing something. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    appledown, IowaMike

    The only conversatin I see happening in the media about this tragedy is whether or not police were trying to smear Brown by releasing this tape and whether or not the tape is relevant.

    Personally, I don't care if Brown is shown on tape stealing every single thing from the store, punching the clerk in the face and kicking a puppy on the way out...it is NOT appropriate use of force to shoot an unarmed person, let alone 6 times.   I don't care if the cop knew Brown did single one of those things in the store...he had no right to shoot and kill Brown.  

    The issue as I see it is the increasing problem of police in the country thinking they can just beat, shoot, taze anyone they want whenever they want.  Police shouldn't be shooting first and asking questions later.  They SHOULD be using force solely as a last resort and even then, only to defend themselves or the public.  An unarmed person running away - I don't care if it was bloody Hitler - should not be shot at all...let alone to death.   If you have reason to suspec them of criminal activity, you pursue or put the info out on the wire, etc.  

    To often police are turning to deliberate aggression against people simply as a way to exert themselves and their will on the people.  Don't like protests or protestors?  Pepper spray them.  Don't like reporters?  Tear gas them and arrest them.   Don't like citizens calling you an asshole?  Taze them 50 times and if they don't die...throw them in jail.   Bulls***!  Your job is to serve and protect, not attack and aggressively beat the public into submission because you have a hard on over your sense of power and authority.

    And this is happeneing everywhere, everyday, all the time.  Even for very minor instances?  Some poor homeless guy is drunk and being beligerint when police try to sweep him under the proverbial social rug?  May as well severely beat and taze him!   That'll teach him to ever do anything other than blindly follow the orders of authoritarian police who feel people have no rights and laws other than to STFU and do what the police tell them to do.

    This whole thing is sickening and now this horrible situation in Ferguson is the result.  And instead of the people in power standing up and telling the police that this is nowhere near legal or appropriate behaviour for police....even President Obama tried to play the "well, both sides have done some inappropriate things so both sides should stop it."  

    Really?  So you have one side who is peacefully protesting police brutality, and another side brutally assaulting anyone who even looks at or acknowledges the protests, and even the President is refusing to take sides?   Seriously?!?!  Seems to me that telling the protestors to stop is essentially telling them to stop questioning the police and then the police will stop acting as brutal dictators.   Hardly the same thing as condemning the police in Ferguson for causing this whole embarassing situation solely themselves.

    Clearly police brutality and aggression is not only considered acceptable by our political leaders (probably because it is useful when they need to kick the people into line), but it seems to be condoned and therefore encouraged.

    •  In addition (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      livingthedream

      I wish Dkos had an edit option.  I wanted to add one more thing related to my comments.  It reminded me of a story from a couple years ago of a michigan cop in Calgary who wrote an angry editorial to the paper about Canada's gun laws.  The cop was in the park with his wife during the day and two young men came up to him asking if they'd been to the Stampede yet.  The cop felt threatened and was angry he wasn't allowed to carry his gun because to him, this amounted to a life and death situation and he should have the right to protect himself and his wife by shooting those two young men on the spot.  

      http://news.nationalpost.com/...

      It is funny, until you realize how sad and dangeroud and commonplace this way of thinking is among the police.

  •  Video Time/Date Stamp Missing? (0+ / 0-)

    Has anyone else noticed that the time/date stamp on the above video is missing?  Of the videos that I have seen at various news outlets I have noticed it missing on most copies except one.  Also, where is the audio tape of the 911 call from the store reporting a robbery?  Hmmmm?

  •  guess not so much liars as you think (0+ / 0-)

    http://eaglerising.com/...

    The Officer has injuries consistent with being hit in the eye as well as Brown having been hit in the front by the bullets and not from the back. This from 2 autopsies and one was done for the Brown family.  Also the video on here does not show Brown with his hands around that clerks neck. Which I have seen that Video and post it here for you too.  They seem to have cut that out of the video

    https://www.youtube.com/...

    enjoy

    •  Your first sentence makes no grammatical sense, (0+ / 0-)

      and, sorry to break it to you, everything you've posted has been discussed here for days. Try not to get too excited about piles of doo-doo that we stopped sniffing at some time ago. It's amusing for us to watch you pee yourself showin' dem' libruls a thang or two, but you'll find it's rather a waste of energy.

      And no, the video and pictures released so far don't show his hands around the guy's neck, any more than they show him paying for the cigars. We aim for reality here, which is why better and more coherent commenters than you have repeatedly pushed back on the story this diary is based on. All without your super duper help, too!

      Back under the bridge with you.

  •  another link you might like (0+ / 0-)

    http://heavy.com/...

    Here is another link... please dont let the facts get in the way of your bashing the police.

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