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I'll be frank and to the point, I'm no Liberal I'm a Leftist.  My largest concern is our horrific American Labor market, which has purposely be inflated to keep wages down.  This has all been done with excited Democratic Party support, and everytime they use legitimate social injustices to force us to swallow their poison.  

Recently Immigration reform has been heavily promoted by mainstream politicians, and this usually means it has horrific economic consequences for working people.  To get any bi-partisan support from the GOP, it usually means the policy must seriously cater to their economic concerns, since they will likely take heat for whatever social policy the Democrats demand.

We have multiple problems with our immigration system, as we know, but my issue is not with granting a path to citizenship or supporting dreamers.  How could it be, that's the part that they use to sell us a destructive heap of corporatist garbage?

The true reason to oppose this disturbing reform package is what's attached along for the ride.

Increased H1 Visas! For which jobs you may ask?  STEM Jobs! That;s right, I guess that fancy computer science degree really wasn't that important?

Rather than incentivising workers to learn additional skills, using the old method of higher wages and benefits, capitalists would much rather import workers and maintain a large pool of unemployed American workers.

Isn't it interesting that Democrats, who claim to support workers, wouldn't advocate this aspect?

This is horrific, and using the legitimate concern of supporting dreamers, against the American IT workers makes me enraged.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Good article at your link (6+ / 0-)

    Tech and STEM workers need to keep educating the public while pressuring the WH and Congress to protect high skilled workers.

    Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United.

    by Betty Pinson on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 10:42:46 AM PDT

  •  Try using "Truthout" , techzilla (10+ / 0-)
    Bernie Sanders Introduces Amendments to Immigration Reform Bill to Protect Workers

    Friday, 13 September 2013 00:00 By Heather Gautney, Truthout | Report


    This year's bill did not deviate significantly from the United States’ historical practice of shaping immigration policy according to the demands of economic development. But from Sanders' perspective, it made no sense to expand guest worker programs at a time when so many Americans were beset by unemployment and foreclosure. Unless, of course, you were trying to exert downward pressure on wages - which is exactly what many of the corporate-led guest worker programs in Senate Bill 744 are designed to do.

    Backed by the AFL-CIO, UAW and others, Sanders attempted to thwart Senate Bill 744's race to the bottom by introducing three amendments - all of which lent voice to the millions of workers who stood to lose big if guest worker programs were expanded. To read his agenda as protectionist would miss the point - by defending domestic labor markets from saturation and unfair competition, he was indeed insisting on fair wages and working conditions for all workers, in and outside the United States.

    Number one among his amendments was a Youth Jobs Program, which would provide states with $1.5 billion of federal funding to support a two-year jobs program for economically disadvantaged youths. The program also made provisions to help participants get to work, since the problem of unemployment for many young people is exacerbated by the

    The immigration bill is a wall st sell out , dems should be shamed for putting their names to it , being door mats for the GOP does not GOTV

    Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

    by Patango on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:04:11 PM PDT

  •  Immigration is good (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't understand why someone would be aghast at increasing H1B visas with safeguards but then turn around and support amnesty for illegal immigrants. Why is illegal immigration good, but legal immigration bad? Should green cards be used instead of H1Bs?

    •  You've missed the point. Immigration is neither (7+ / 0-)

      good nor bad, it simply is. What is good or bad is how those immigration laws are used and for whose benefit.

      Is it a chance for people to improve their lives by coming to the U.S., or is it simply a way to exploit people who dare not complain in order to suppress wages, benefits, and conditions for everyone?

      In every wave in our history, the legislators have created a system heavily skewed toward the latter.

      "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

      by Greyhound on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:41:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It should be the first (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        limpidglass, jbsoul

        And people on H1Bs should have the right to switch jobs, report abuses etc.

        •  There shouldn't even be such a thing, the (8+ / 0-)

          H-1(b) was a good idea that was perverted into a scheme to create billionaires at the expense of the American worker and economy. The "shortage of technical workers" in the '90s was never more than a short-term, very temporary blip in a few geographical regions, that was deliberately overstated in order to get wages down.

          This board is chock-full of seasoned IT workers that can and have documented the whole sordid mess.

          "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

          by Greyhound on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:29:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  H1Bs are not only for technical workers (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            qofdisks, IT Professional

            But also for any other high-skill occupation.

            Although I do admit they are over-used by the tech industry:

            •  And in all cases they are an abuse (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pigpaste, Greyhound, IT Professional

              H-1bs are used for marketing managers, teachers, STEM workers, etc.

              There are 900,000 in the US now.

              Then there are 500,000 J-1s (used to hire workers at MacDonalds, Hershey in PA, lifeguards and many other jobs). The kick with J-1 is that THEY PAY NO TAXES for the workers. The J-1 is used to evade and totally circumvent the laws on wages.

              Of course, there are the L-1s, F-1, B-1 visas. These are used to supplement teh H-1B.

              Add to these the OPT program which is like the H-1b.

              Add them all up, you have 2,000,000-3,000,000 per year.

              •  Given how byzantine US immigration laws are (0+ / 0-)

                These temporary programs get over-used. Immigration reform could fix it, by increasing permanent green cards.

                That said, J-1, H-1B, OPT all have strict time limits, so their usage is limited.

                •  Your analysis is incomplete (0+ / 0-)

                  Once a job is designated for a temporary visa, it does not come back to US candidates. The point is that there is a huge, effectively infinite, supply of cheap labor. It doesn't matter for a SPECIFIC H-1B worker. That worker will come here, be exploited, and returned to COO, to be replaced by ANOTHER H-1B. The programs are for temporary workers, but the use of temporary workers is permanent.

                  Once an organization gets a taste of cheap labor, they don't go back to more expensive labor. Cheap labor is an absorbing state.

          •  Yea i'm one of them! (0+ / 0-)

            I work in IT, there is no actual shortage, just the normal corporate interest in profit.  Most my co-workers have been temps and H1's, love the guys themselves.... but with our huge unemployment, and large pool of available applicants, it's clearly simply used to undercut our labor market.

    •  H-1B and green cards are DISASTERS for (4+ / 0-)

      American workers.

      We do not need them, we do not want them.

      We need jobs for American STEM workers.

  •  Yeah, you have to learn which sources are (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jbsoul, Betty Pinson

    acceptable. It's not hard to do, but makes a difference in how it's received.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

    by Greyhound on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 12:44:33 PM PDT

    •  Yea, definitly (0+ / 0-)

      I should have searched up Sander's position first, it would have put me in a better direction.  I can't believe the wingnuts are so xenophobic that they're willing to oppose such a fine corporate interest!

  •  Census: 74% of STEM grads don't get STEM jobs (9+ / 0-)

    If there really WAS a shortage, as CEO's who demand more H-1B visas claim, wages would be going up, and these people would be getting STEM jobs. Instead, Microsoft is laying off people and demanding more visas.

    •  There are local shortages, especially in (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Silicon Valley. Wages there are going up.

    •  it depends on the job and the skill (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      codairem, Betty Pinson

      People who get a STEM degree may not end up working in STEM jobs, so they might not be available to be hired by these STEM companies.

      The question is not: "how many STEM grads don't get STEM jobs," but "how many STEM grads looking for a STEM job can't find one."

      Many programmers have still not understood that they are the steelworkers of the 21st century. Programmers are more or less blue-collar these days. But there is a huge resistance to labor organizing among techies, whose politics are often highly libertarian. The steelworkers figured out they had to organize long ago. Programmers are ostensibly better educated, but apparently they aren't nearly as smart as the steelworkers.

      The exclusive focus on restricting immigration, rather than organizing against the 1%, is a serf mentality. It's far easier to piss on the head of someone less fortunate than you than to challenge the powerful.

      If the people who always complain about H1Bs worked on unionizing and strengthening foreign labor with half the fervor with which they bitched about foreign workers, I might take them more seriously. As it is, I'm forced to conclude that a great deal of it is simply racial resentment seeking a respectable guise.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:19:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obviously you know nothing about STEM workers (0+ / 0-)

        So why bother commenting? You are not in STEM. You know nothing about the area.

        Me, I'd be kind of reluctant to show the total lack of comprehension that you seem to have, but I guess YMMV.

      •  US workers can't organize overseas labor markets (3+ / 0-)

        No offense, but thats a crazy idea. They cant even win rights or decent wages in the US, how the hell can they accomplish that in some third world dictatorship.

        Tech an STEM workers in the US need to orgsnize here and pressure Congress and the WH to stop abusing the  H1B visa program.

        Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United.

        by Betty Pinson on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 05:03:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sounds like blaming the victim to me. n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

        by Rich in PA on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 05:57:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Please I'd love to know how we can organize this? (0+ / 0-)

        I'm all ears buster, once main point of these programs is to make us unable to organize.   I'm no xenophobe, or racist, have much more than that "one friend".  I think your a corporate shill, and are using our legitimate concerns against our economic interests.

  •  IT professionals are covered by STEM (0+ / 0-)

    Rep. Lamar Smith introduced a bill in late 2012 that would have allowed for 55,000 more green cards each year for foreign STEM graduates of U.S. universities.

    •  The American worker has few friends on Cap Hill (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Betty Pinson, IT Professional

      Few Democrats attempt to help the American worker. Schumer, Reid, on and on and on - all attempt to increase H-1Bs (disaster for American workers) and green cards (disaster again). Most republicans also are trying to increase.

      Hillary WAS the Senator from Bengali, as correctly noted by Obama. Clintonism and the work rules of NAFTA, as well as the H-1B bill itself (signed in 1992) and other disasters of work rules, has been an unmitigated, unmistakeable disaster from Day 1 for the American worker.

      There are 3-4 Senators who help American workers. These include Sessions (R), Sanders (IS), Grassley (R), Durbin occasionally (D), and sometimes Brown (D).

      The main problem is that the American worker has no central organization but the corporate push for cheap labor is funded by many many organizations.

  •  Tipped and Rec'd for all those unemployed IT folks (4+ / 0-)

    that are still very useful and just waiting to get a chance to get back into their profession once more without having to compete with low wage H1-B visa "sweepstake winners".   Trouble is, as each day goes by, the politicians, both Democratic and Republican, and the corporate greedy can compound their mantra of "there aren't enough skilled American technical workers to hire" BS, as if they all didn't have a hand in creating the labor issue due to the fact that technology marches on, and insufficient training is the enemy of those that are losing their skill set as it relates to the ever changing technical world.

    Worse thing about that is that those that want America to be able to compete with other third world countries in the labor market can wait out the long term unemployed.  They simply don't care about anything other than their bottom line, and their very own fat bank accounts.

    “My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there." - Rumi

    by LamontCranston on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 01:50:36 PM PDT

  •  We don't owe anyone access to our country. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IT Professional, WorkerInUSA

    We should permit exactly as much immigration as suits us, defined as what suits the worse-off among us because that's the progressive definition of "us" on every other issue.  H1B visas flunk that test and I'm afraid immigration in general doesn't score out too well on that test either.

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 05:56:59 PM PDT

    •  It's amazing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA

      This perfectly reasonable position, that immigration to this country is a policy which can and should be debated, has now become considered "racism" by a lot of folks. Organizations which have been formed to make policy suggestions on this issue are in some cases listed as "hate speech" groups by certain "objective" groups.

      Political speech is used to discuss policy. Policy can be for "more immigration" or for "less immigration". Both are political and policy positions which need discussion, not reflexive castigation and hysterical chanting.

      •  Unfortunately there are many immigration... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ...skeptics who are, in a word, racists.  They are something of a godsend to pro-immigration people, because they put a horrible taint on all immigration skeptics.  

        It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

        by Rich in PA on Tue Sep 02, 2014 at 09:59:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Endless pursuit of the cheapest possible labor (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IT Professional, WorkerInUSA

    has been the goal for the last few decades.

    'Free Trade' - supported by BOTH political parties - has led to massive offshoring of US manufacturing jobs - And all those manufacturing jobs that have left also took higher end support jobs with them - design nd engineering are now being done overseas along with manufacturing.   We're now seeing white collar jobs go as well.  Accounting jobs are following programming and systems jobs.

    The strategy is simple - ship jobs (whole factories) overseas where labor is cheaper and laws on safety, pollution and everything else are looser or nonexistent.  If you can't ship the jobs overseas, you bring cheap labor in - legally with H1B's for high end jobs or illegally for low end jobs.

    Immigration helped GROW the US when we had an EXPANDING economy - though it still helped suppress wages.  You had an empty country that could accommodate thousands of new farmers and factory workers and miners.  But note that the worst paid jobs with the worst conditions  - coal mining, steel mills and such- were filled with low paid immigrant labor.  'Americans' were in higher end supervisory positions in such places.

    With a CONTRACTING economy immigration adds to the pool of potential employees.  Supply larger with fixed or reduced demand and wages go lower and that is exactly what's happened.

    Construction used to be union and a decent way to make a good living.  Now you're likely to see a crew chief on salary with a lot of pick up daily labor.    

    All the blue collar family kids I went to school with in the 60's found they were pushed out of the job market by cheaper and harder working immigrants.  The second gen Italians that thought they'd be fine running their father's landscaping or lawn care business all got put out of business by newer arrivals from Central America.

    Life isn't fair but you should try to leave it fairer than you found it.

    by xrepub on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 06:18:15 PM PDT

  •  I had a long comment which I deleted (0+ / 0-)

    But suffice it to say that this diary and its corresponding comments disappoint me very greatly.

    Being xenophobic and smearing all non-Americans for the acts of a few is also great way to gain support for your cause. As well as making green card holders, who can typically become US citizens in 5 years and can then vote, be much less likely to support Democrats or liberals.

    For my humble servant, who has served me faithfully these many years, without complaint, I leave... a boot to the head.

    by basket on Mon Sep 01, 2014 at 06:27:42 PM PDT

    •  You're Purposely lying about my intentions (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      As the author or diary I'm also disappointed in "some" of the commentary .  I don't appreciate the "few" xenophobic posters. I also wish I grabbed a different source,  but you're putting our concerns about immigrants against our own economic interests.  This isn't about the users of H1's, this is about purposely avoiding the higher prices of american labor.  AND when i say "american"  I mean ALL those who hold green cards and citizenship regardless of ethnicity.

    •  BTW i support dreamers, (0+ / 0-)

      I never said anything about green card holders, so I don't think you even care about actual worker concerns.  You'd rather paint us as "xenophobic" wingnuts, while we all hang out employed at home.

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