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EDIT:  IF you are reading this for the first time, I should make clear at the outset that I am 100% FOR A FEMALE PRESIDENT; my diary is only a precaution about the fights we will face in the wake of that female presidency. I used the headline to catch your attention, and then warn about the brewing storm; unfortunately, some readers took the headline to heart and thought that meant I oppose the idea. Far from it. I didn't  write this to suggest that these reasons should discourage us from voting for a woman, I wrote it to prepare us for the inevitable onslaught of propaganda and lies that a female president will face, using Obama's experiences as a primer. (End edit)

I've read many times now that our next president will be a woman, likely Hillary Clinton, but a woman in any case. Whether it’s a case of the GOP not having a better candidate (such as their current cast of unelectable candidates), whether they'll surprise us all and nominate an electable female in opposition to Clinton (i.e., not Palin, Bachmann et al.), or whether it’s a case of “We can't win the White House, so let's break down the last wall and finally be done with -isms,” I’ve read several accounts that predict we will have a female president in 2017.

While that should be a good thing, it worries me. Why? Because Obama. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist.) But seriously, I worry because of what has happened during Obama’s presidency, when his election supposedly broke down the wall of racism. It hasn’t been pretty. Not because of anything he has done, but because of the virulent reaction against him.  

To be honest, I was amazed when Obama was elected. It seemed unreal, because we haven’t yet had that much-needed national dialogue about racism in America, and as Ferguson has shown us, we need it more now than ever. I didn’t think America was ready for a black president.

Well, many Americans weren’t ready, because racism has worsened since his election. The thinking appears to be, “Since we have a black president, we’ve reached a post-racial America, so we don’t have to be politically correct anymore.”

Personal anectdote:  I overheard the following at my gym about the Ferguson tragedy, only he didn’t see it as a tragedy, he saw it as uppity blacks acting out:  “What do they [blacks] want? They’re only 12% of the population, yet we’ve got a black president. What more do they want? Racism is over.”

Racism is over! Wow! Where was I? Did you all get the memo? I sure didn’t, but there it is. We have a black president, which means that racism is over … so … yay?

Since we passed the Civil Rights Act, some things for black America have certainly gotten better (while much has gotten worse):  segregation has been outlawed (although white flight created a new kind of segregation); interracial marriage is legal and relatively accepted (if still abhorred by some in our society); and blacks are eligible to become anything any other person can become (although they don’t have anything close to the same opportunities to do so). Of course, some things flew under the radar for most of America:  the Rockefeller drug laws/War on Drugs were systemically racist, the broken windows policies/profiling was undeniably racist, and the mass incarceration of blacks ( have shown us that racism just took a different but nonetheless legally-sanctioned route. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss....  

We are far, FAR from a post-racial society. The ugly treatment Obama has received from Congress, the media, and our populace has been unprecedented in its undeniable hatred (“Liar!”,“he hates America,” “he’s not MY president,” art with him hanging by a noose and lynching references, etc.). The record growth of hate groups, of gun and ammunition sales, the insane stand-your-ground/open carry laws, etc. have shown that racism hasn’t gotten better, it's gotten worse, setting us back years. Plus, as bad as it’s been, I daresay the recent reactions to Ferguson have set us back even further. I can summarize its ugliness in five words:  It was a good kill.” Vulgar beyond belief.

Yet every time Obama even dares to discuss incidents that are clearly race-driven, he's called out for "using the race card." The most insulting Ferguson commentary is the RW's incessant "They're trying to make this about race!" They shut down any chance of a national dialogue about race by redefining the dialogue as racist! With that kind of logic, how long will it be until the RW says we're trying to make climate change about the environment?

And so Obama has rarely spoken out in defense of blacks, because the media makes it a no-win situation. It’s as if electing Obama gave racists a free pass to be as goddamn racist as they want to be, and there's nothing he can do about it.

There was an old saying, “Blacks have to be twice as good to get half as much.” When Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in baseball, he had to be the paragon of virtue on and off the field (back when the hijinks of “Ball Four” was reality). Robinson had to be unimpeachable in the face of great adversity. Anything less, and the racists would’ve pummeled him and the Dodgers for it. (They tried to pummel both, anyway.)

To date, Obama has been the paragon of a president on the job and off. Imagine if he had had George Bush’s alcohol or cocaine problems in his past – he wouldn’t have even made it to the White House, let alone survived two terms. Imagine if he had had Bill Clinton’s sexual history (do I really need to provide links for that one?), Obama might not have survived, period.

Instead, Obama has accomplished all he has (and yes, he has accomplished a great deal, even if many of us progressives see too many broken promises) with the most obstructionist Congress in history, a frightful Tea Party bent on undoing anything he's able to get done despite them, and a not insignificant part of the media and the general populace that promotes the various Kenyan/fascist/socialist/communist/atheist/Muslim/homo/space alien myths.

Which leads me to my headline, Why I Fear a Female President. Racism and sexism often go hand in hand. I believe sexism will get much worse under a female president, and there won't be a damn thing she can do about it.

Writer Fannie Hurst said something with a familiar ring to it: “A woman has to be twice as good as a man to go half as far.” Like Obama, a female president will have to be a paragon of virtue, civic duty, etc., and still she will be battled from the get-go (or, like Obama, before she even takes office); she will be belittled, pilloried, and — if the clowns in Congress gets their way — possibly face made-up impeachment charges to prove she's not up to the job.  

For better or worse, we will enter the “post-feminism era.” (Well, let’s state the obvious — it’ll be for worse.) I can practically hear the man at the gym saying, “They have a female president. What more do they want? Feminism is over.” The Hobby Lobby decision is only a taste of the anti-women attacks I think we'll see under a female president. All legal rights and protections for women will be reviewed. In the same vein that the Supreme Court ruled affirmative action as unfair, I can see many current women’s rights laws be labeled “unfair,” and I can see the clowns in Congress try to rescind them. Not just federal laws, either — state laws and local laws will likely be challenged and gutted whenever and wherever possible, especially with mostly GOP-controlled local legislatures.

The growth of fundamental Christianity, Mormonism and Islam have already created an anti-feminism backlash, trying to get women back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. The TP et al. will use those religions’ support to attack the modern, independent woman and undo any and every women’s right and protection they can, under the guise of "religious freedom." Hobby Lobby was just the first volley. A battle will follow.

Remember those crazy GOP Rape Advisory Charts? Well, some of those crazy things will be said openly, basically daring the new president to "try to make it about gender!"

You surely have seen the many “Obama is a [insert insane idea here]” theories. Presidents are often targets of the weirdest crap, but Obama has faced more than most. Too, Michelle has faced more crazed theories than any first lady in our history. First ladies are usually treated with some deference, unless they get political; then, the gloves come off. With Michelle, however, she didn’t even have to get political — the gloves came off early on and stayed off.

Have you seen the “Michelle is the first tranny” theory? The RWNJs go beyond the pale time and time again, but this meme is beyond anything I’ve ever seen before. Well, imagine if Michelle was president — it'll get uglier than tranny theories. It'll get uglier than any of us can imagine, because we cannot think like these crazed lunatics.

We have reason to expect the opposition to behave within certain boundaries, but ever since Reagan gutted the FCC and media responsibility, journalism has left the building, and there is no legitimate Fourth Estate (as good as it is, Comedy Central doesn't qualify as legitimate journalism) to report the truth about the crazies on Capital Hill and on the air.  

We have reason to expect the opposition to behave with a certain sense of decorum, but ever since Gingrich and company changed the language of politics, civil discourse is out the window.

We have reason to expect a bit of give-and-take and diplomatic compromise in a two-party system, but ever since the Tea Party took us all on a suicidal right turn with its take-no-prisoners, "We will never surren- I mean compromise!" approach, even old-fashioned conservatism is too liberal for these folks. As many, many people have pointed out, their litmus tests are so extreme that their favorite president Ronald Reagan wouldn't survive the primaries today. (Which also shows a complete misunderstanding of American history, knowing what Reagan actually stood for, much like their utter fabrications of our founding fathers' beliefs, intents, etc., but I digress....)

The Far Right's extremism has increased to the point where they often out-Onion the Onion. For example, they argue that providing social services is somehow "fascism." (o.O) And no, that's not hyperbole. When providing health care is compared to sending people to gas chambers, how can one have civil discourse with such irrational conversation? There's no reasonable dialogue possible, let alone diplomatic give-and-take.

They keep lowering the bar until it’s somehow lower than the floor. I don’t put anything past any political person, supporter or agency anymore, and I expect we'll witness new, sordid lows if and when we elect our first female president. I’d love to be wrong about this, but, unfortunately, I think I’m hitting this nail squarely on its head.

If Hilary Clinton or any woman gets elected in 2016, in the words of Margo Channing, “Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night.”

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Comment Preferences

  •  We will never get passed racism and sexism (29+ / 0-)

    by trying to hide from it and telling people not to talk about it. I have no doubt that if Hillary Clinton had been elected president in 2008, which was certainly within the realm of possibility, that the right wing nuts would have been making the same noise about gender as they have been about race. Putting straight white men in charge is not the solution to the problem. It is just perpetuating it.

    •  Agreed. They'll still be sexist, racist (7+ / 0-)

      wastes of flesh no matter if the president is black, white, male, female, gay, straight, or whatever else. To me, it simply proves the point that most of us stand against them. The bigots have, thankfully, become a minority. A very powerful, very large minority, but a minority. They need to be reminded of that. They need to know that never again will their hatred be the deciding factor in an election, and they need to know the party supporting their ideals (Republican) is being crushed.

    •  Agreed nt (4+ / 0-)

      I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

      by a2nite on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:09:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  To be completely clear... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kathy Scheidel

      ...I will gladly, proudly and strongly support a female candidate for president. I think we are long overdue.

      BUT the point of my diary was and is, as Obama's presidency has shown us, prepare for the shitstorm of sexism that a presidency will unleash. One of the things the right does so well is create so much noise coming from so many different directions that you can't even address the first few lies before the next few lies are being told.

      Everything we witnessed happen to civil rights/racism under Obama will happen to women's rights/sexism under a female president.

      •  sometimes you just have to puke it out. (4+ / 0-)

        If you've eaten bad food, it's going to make you sick one way or another.

        You can puke it out now and get it out of your system, or you can wait and get much sicker tomorrow.

        Racism is making America sick right now, and we have an opportunity to puke it out.  

        We should not back down from electing HRC on the basis that sexism will make us sick: instead we should face it and puke it out.  

        Right now we should be painting Boehner and McConnell as "racist bastards" and forcing them to cooperate with Obama as a simple matter of demonstrating that they are "not" racist bastards.

        If/when HRC is in office, we should be painting her opposite numbers as "sexist pricks" and forcing them to cooperate on the same basis.  

        We're falling short because we are not doing that, and we are not fighting it everywhere possible at the grassroots level where the dog-whistles from above elicit the expected barking and baying from below.  

        What we need to do at the grassroots level is make it socially unacceptable.  Show up everywhere the racists hang out, and when we hear them spout their shit, call them on it in the kind of language that will embarrass them in front of their peers.  Ditto for sexists during the HRC administration.  

        All the energy we waste around here on meta and pie fights (the current one being religion/atheism), could instead be spent going on attack mode in the kinds of places where racists spew their shit unchallenged.  Each of us has local media where we are, with comment boards that are usually infested with troglodytes: at minimum we can go there and face them down.  

        It has to be done in simple, unequivocal terms that anyone with a 6th grade education can understand, and it has to start by asserting the assumption that the troglodytes are losers who are losing and who have lost and are bad losers.  

        For example when you see racist crap directed against Obama, there should be a flood of comments following it, to the effect that "You're just jealous because a black guy is smarter than you are and so's his wife.  Get over it and stop being a sore loser."  Notice the embedded assumptions: racists are stupid, jealous, and sore losers.  Nobody wants to be identified as stupid, jealous, and a sore loser.  And while that tactic may not convert the overt racists, it will discourage the vast middle from siding with them.  The goal is to whittle away at the potential support base for racism until it dwindles into insignificance.

        One more thing about a female President: she will drive the Middle Eastern terrorist groups batshit crazy, and they will say things that will sound like caricatures of what the Republicans are saying, thereby painting the Republicans as being sympathetic to the terrorists.  

        GOTV as if your life depends on it, because somebody's life does.

        by G2geek on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:22:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Well, sure (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vita Brevis

        But the only good argument you have for delay is that you/we are truly exhausted from the racial fighting about Obama.

        These are not psychological wars for truth- the opponent doesn't care about truth.  It's about psychological attrition of the resentments and idiotic imagination from which the racial and sexist assholery comes.  

    •  Hear, hear! nt (0+ / 0-)

      "Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come." --Rumi

      by karmsy on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:43:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Haters gonna hate (14+ / 0-)

    You're not going to change their behavior no matter what you do, so we might as well just go ahead and start electing female presidents.

    It's a police riot. You know what a police riot is? It's when the police riot.

    by thenekkidtruth on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 05:56:21 AM PDT

  •  Best reasons ever (19+ / 0-)

    for not allowing a woman to be the first [fill in the blank] because the mouth foamers will say something mean about her.

    Not sure if you are old enough to remember Shirley Chisholm -- African American AND a woman who campaigned for president in 1972 -- calling for a bloodless revolution during a volatile time in our history.  Many laughed at her "folly" but sane people admired her courage.

    If you think it is best to live in a country controlled by hatred, that is very sad indeed.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 05:58:12 AM PDT

    •  I don't think that is what the diarist is saying. (7+ / 0-)

      We can't ignore that hatred for Obama runs so deep that its adherents are willing to literally destroy America if it means hurting him.

      I don't read the diarist as saying he doesn't want a female president - but that he fears how much farther the right wing will sink when we do.

      I personally don't know how much more of the downward spiral this country can handle.

      I've got three tools in my arsenal: my voice, my wallet and my vote.

      by ExpatGirl on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:19:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Invoking fear seems to imply (3+ / 0-)

        that the risk are such that it should be avoided. It most definitely doesn't sound like a call to stand up and fight for it.

        •  Looking at a pattern and expressing concern (3+ / 0-)

          is not the same thing as "invoking fear".

          To spite Obama, millions of vulnerable people have been pushed to the edge of the knife. If they get pushed any further, having a woman in the White House will be a Pyrrhic victory at best.

          My fears will be greatly assuaged if we can get control of the House and keep control of the Senate.

          I've got three tools in my arsenal: my voice, my wallet and my vote.

          by ExpatGirl on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:09:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Fair enough (0+ / 0-)

          I didn't mean my "fear" headline to be read as I don't want a female president, I thought it would grab your attention, and then my writing would make clear what I foresee, and for what we should prepare. I'm sorry I didn't do better.

          I campaigned for Mondale and Ferraro 30 years ago (Chisolm was slightly before my time), so I've been ready for a national female candidate for a long, long, looong time. I just think we progressives should learn from Obama's experiences what we're going to face in the next presidency.

      •  Exactly. You got what I was trying to say. (3+ / 0-)

        And I, too, don't know how much more we can take.

        •  We take it ALL (5+ / 0-)

          and continue to fight it.

          We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

          by Vita Brevis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:16:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I can't speak for you (4+ / 0-)

            but I am not a single mother trying to feed her children on dwindling SNAP assistance. I am not pregnant and desperate. I don't have a child at risk of being funneled from the school-to-prison pipeline. I have excellent health insurance. I don't live near a possibly deadly corporate environmental hazard. I am not facing deportation from the only country I have ever known.

            I often use the term "we" knowing full well it doesn't always include "me".

            I've got three tools in my arsenal: my voice, my wallet and my vote.

            by ExpatGirl on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:27:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I understand (5+ / 0-)

              And I didn't mean it to sound like a statement made from the comfort of my comfortable existence (a precarious perch), nor am I naive enough not to recognize that principles themselves can be a luxury. I'm not advocating purity or pretending that people don't have to make real pragmatic choices in their lives and won't criticize them for choices I don't have to make.

              My intended point was that any of us who can keep fighting do so and that we don't give up because it's hard or because the regressives in this country keep flinging crap. That's all.

              I had discussions w/ people before the 2008 election that electing the first black President would be bad, difficult, challenging, fill in the blank. I believed then and believe now that we fight for the best person for the job and it's up to all of us to have that person's back.

              We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

              by Vita Brevis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:57:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  It is our great strength (0+ / 0-)

              that we support each other, and I am not so silly as to demand that nobody can be on my side but those just like me. Unlike the forces of ideological purity on the Right who demand nothing more furiously than to cast all of the RINOs into the outer darkness.

              Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

              by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 05:22:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  oh, concern! I should have seen it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          how did I miss that?
          concern is absolutely perilous.
          I have to stay indoors for 8 years.
          gotta plan for that, in case she wins. progress isn't worth discomfort. we saw it.
          maybe I'll start selling sand for people to put their heads in, since the struggle to overcome bigotry and stereotypes is too too horrid, gasp. oh, misery!
          oh, fear!
          oh, dear.
          get your sand here.
          $20 a bucket, $175 for a bargain barrel. take the sand challenge.
          best idea, heads down.

          for the love of humanity please protect the light in all that may glow and try not to make anyone else's path more cruel than it would be on its own.

          by renzo capetti on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:30:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Feel better now? (0+ / 0-)

            I've got three tools in my arsenal: my voice, my wallet and my vote.

            by ExpatGirl on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:31:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, you missed it completely, although... (0+ / 0-)

            ...I take some of the blame because you're not the only one, so apparently my writing wasn't as clear as I thought it was. With apologies, but also with some rebuke, I must ask, did you really read that as you wrote? Or did you just read the headline and skip the diary?

            •  there'll be alotta diaries attempting (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Kenny Herbert

              to play on the distracting vulnerabilities to make progress more difficult.
              so, when they appear, kogs will question to ascertain the motive for publishing.
              a diarist may feign naivete and pick  a comment out to say, oh, that's what I meant!
              and people who have no suspicion they are being played will add some dialogue and perhaps some recommendations.
              but some may not go along so guilelessly. they may respond in satirical acid irony to focus the intent. we'll see how it goes; the concerns, and, eventually, the returns..

              for the love of humanity please protect the light in all that may glow and try not to make anyone else's path more cruel than it would be on its own.

              by renzo capetti on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 09:42:11 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I've read this site for a few months now... (0+ / 0-)

                ...and I like to write, so I thought I'd start participating. Occasionally, my writing style takes over when I'm trying to communicate some rather straightforward points, and apparently it twisted my intent to some people.

                Honestly, I didn't foresee people reading my heading, jumping to the conclusion, "Well, that must mean..." and then completely miss my intent. That's my bad for not being clearer, although I suspect there are a few other guilty parties here as well who either didn't read the diary or misconstrued it entirely. I thought it was much more interesting than, say, "The Challenges That Await for Our First Female Prez," but it was interesting in all the wrong ways. I'll try to be a bit more direct in my writings here to be sure I'm communicating my point better, because I clearly didn't.

                Thanks for your feedback. :)

                •  Speaking of jumping (eg to conclusions) (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  renzo capetti

                  don't assume that commenters (like me) only read the headline.

                  We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

                  by Vita Brevis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 12:30:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  It was difficult to tell where you were going (0+ / 0-)

                  first because of the headline, and then because you wrote so much about racist opposition to Obama before coming to Hillary at all. This is called burying the lede.

                  Let me see. How would I write a Diary like this?

                  My Fears for President Hillary

                  The Vast Right-wing Conspiracy is visibly gathering its forces again for the 2016 election and (we hope) for the first Hillary administration in 2017. We cannot yet tell whether the misogyny of the Right against her will be worse than the current racism of the Right against President Obama, but we do know that it will not be for lack of trying.

                  Racists against Obama

                  Cut it down from what you wrote. This is Daily Kos. We have heard about it. Use links to provide lots of content in a little space. It comes down to
                  OMG, he's Blaaaaaaack!

                  Uppity [link] Kenyan [link] Socialist [link] Muslim [link] terrorist [link] blah [link]

                  Then come to the point.
                  Misogynists against Clinton
                  What are the worst things they can say or do? Specifically. What is the worst they have said or done, in fact?



                  Vince Foster?



                  None of that has stuck. What else can they come at her with?

                  What are the likely consequences?

                  What can we do about it?

                  Well, if we win the House and Senate when we elect her, it may not matter what they think. At least if we are willing to pass a new Voting Rights Act, nuke the filibuster on legislation, and have some Supreme Court picks lined up. Then we can go back to Speaker Pelosi, who knows how to manage her own peanut gallery when she has the gavel, and to the 200+ bills passed the last time she was Speaker that died in the Senate. And a few more.

                  Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                  by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:22:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  One other question: (0+ / 0-)

                Is "kogs" an actual nickname for people here? I haven't seen that yet?

      •  I think it's the logical inference (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Kathy Scheidel, renzo capetti

        But even if it's illogical, that's how I read it :)

        Only way forward is through...the hate, ignorance etc.

        We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

        by Vita Brevis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:15:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I don't know either. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        renzo capetti

        However, the USA has a better chance of improving by getting all the dirtly laundry out in the sunlight.

        All the ugliness has been hidden behind generations of the propoganda of "American Exceptionalism."

        If you let go of the notion that your consciousness is something more than fleeting will you disregard your empathy?

        by DerAmi on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 08:00:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So true and worth repeating (0+ / 0-)

          "All the ugliness has been hidden behind generations of the propoganda of "American Exceptionalism.""

          And I do agree we have a better chance of improving by airing our dirty laundry. I love the quote, "My country, right or wrong," but only when it's told in its complete form:   "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. (Carl Schurz)

    •  I thought I was clearer in my diary, but... (4+ / 0-)

      ...I'm not against a female president in any way. I think we are long overdue. I thought we were long overdue for a black president, but if Obama's presidency taught us anything, it's that there is a large segment of this country and a powerful controlling force in our Congress and media that were NOT ready, and were willing to do anything and everything, including shutting down the government, in an attempt to destroy him. I believe those same forces will react just as recklessly with a female president. IMHO.

  •  Please... (13+ / 0-)

    The only way to combat racism and sexism is to bring it out into the open.

    Yes, it's going to be a bumpy ride, so you better get ready.

    Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them - Thomas Jefferson 30 July, 1816

    by Roiling Snake Ball on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:00:36 AM PDT

  •  it may... (8+ / 0-)

    well be ugly, but not doing something because of how some of the worse of society might react to it is a lousy reason , perhaps the lousiest of all, not to do something. Obama's election exposed the level of racism of country that was just under the surface and forced it to surface like the kraken. If that's to happen with a female presidency then let's have it. You know what they say about sunlight.

    "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

    by JackND on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:03:12 AM PDT

  •  I do not think it means what you think it means... (5+ / 0-)
    Robinson had to be impeachable in the face of great adversity.

    I will donate, GOTV and vote for an Elizabeth Warren candidacy for president but I will just vote for Hillary Clinton.

    by IQof20 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:03:28 AM PDT

  •  We would still have slavery (11+ / 0-)

    if we feared the reaction of the  angry slave owners.

    Enough is enough.

    Coddling Republicans is the disease of our time.
    Each fearful hesitation brings us further to the right.

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:06:46 AM PDT

  •  You know, I think every aware woman (16+ / 0-)

    knows full well what will happen if and when a Woman is elected to the Presidency.

    We have seen it all before. Every time we make progress in claiming rights as full human beings, the backlash hits.

    It is the same damn thing that happens to people of color.

    That does not mean that we throw up our hands and hide.

    That does not mean that we let the racist, sexist, idiots have full rein.

    No, we keep fighting back with every thing we have.

    Giving up the fight for justice is not an option.

    There is something in us that refuses to be regarded as less than human. We are created for freedom - Archbishop Desmond Tutu

    by Onomastic on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:09:39 AM PDT

  •  Not convincing. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VPofKarma, renzo capetti, Radiowalla
    Which leads me to my headline, Why I Fear a Female President. Racism and sexism often go hand in hand. I believe sexism will get much worse under a female president, and there won't be a damn thing she can do about it.
    I see it as an opportunity for a woman to show what she do.  It will likely provide a striking contrast to some of the prior buffoons that have resided in the White House.  (Obama not included in that group.)

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:11:58 AM PDT

  •  Bring it on nt (6+ / 0-)

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:12:45 AM PDT

  •  No It's Only Reason Not to Elect DEM Woman (7+ / 0-)

    Whatever cultural hatreds people have, and they are certainly prodigious, they're being mercilessly fanned against African-American President Barack Obama by global ownership and its global and domestic RW forces because he's a Democrat.

    They "hated" Bill Clinton for being a hick yet they "loved" GW Bush for being a good ol' boy.

    Their hatred of Latinos is obviously quite strong yet they've got Latino candidates in the mix for President and other offices.

    A Republican woman President would experience heaps of praise from the global media and global conservative leadership, as would a Republican Black, or Latino, or even atheist.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:19:16 AM PDT

    •  I wonder if (4+ / 0-)

      instead of Thatcher, the UK's first female PM had been from the Labour Party, would she have been nearly as popular as Maggie was with the press? I'm guessing not .. instead of admiringly being called "the Iron Lady", she would have been called a "shrill b----".  Also, compare the press coverage of Geraldine Ferraro in 1984 to that of Sarah Palin in 2008.  Palin got much more positive press.

      "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

      by TLS66 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:38:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It may be because he is a Democrat, but that is (0+ / 0-)

      because the Democratic party supports the rights of women, gays, the poor, and people of color.  So it still comes back to racism, etc and the right wing drive to put "others" back in their "rightful" place serving the rich and powerful. Republican blacks, women, Latinos, or even atheists know their place, do their job, and get rewarded handsomely for playing along.

      “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

      by ahumbleopinion on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:57:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  females would not even be voting (6+ / 0-)

    now if we had the same attitude.  We have been enduring sexism  and the violence that sometimes accompanies it continuously for hundreds of years.  This is not something that started with Obama.  Did you just start noticing?  That is a good thing, IMHO.

    PRESENT Shock When everything happens NOW

    by Portia Elm on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:24:36 AM PDT

    •  The protests began wth Euripides (0+ / 0-)

      In The Trojan Women the women and children of the Trojan royal family are awaiting their fates after the fall of Troy, expecting it to be either slavery or death, and stating some very reasonable objections.

      Sherry Tepper mixed that into her feminist science fiction novel, The Gate to Women's Country, in which, well, [spoilers]. Almost all of her fiction is feminist in some degree, even her murder mysteries and horror tales. She ran Planned Parenthood in Colorado.

      Although the Hebrew scriptures said in perhaps the fifth century BCE to plead for the widow at least, and Buddhist scriptures from the fourth century BCE give women equal spiritual rights, but not equal social rights even within the Buddhist Order.

      Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

      by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 09:11:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't think sexism... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kathy Scheidel

    ...has ever risen to the level of racism in public life.  Take voting for example.  Even though (male) African Americans constitutionally got the vote before women did there had to be a Voting Rights Act almost 100 years later to enforce the 15th amendment and to this day we have issues with surpressing the black vote.  By contrast, while there was certainly a fight over the 19th amendment once it did pass I am not aware of concerted efforts to undo its effects and surpress the women's vote.  There has not needed to be a Voting Rights Act for women.  I do agree with those on this thread who say we can't worry about it or let it stop us from electing a woman.

    •  vadem, that will be next (4+ / 0-)

      When the RWNJs have succeeded in making abortion and contraception illegal, the next thing will be depriving women of the vote. And then of the right to hold a job, have a bank account, drive a car.

      The Republic of Gilead is only a couple of elections away. Unless we get the Dems to turn out big tiime in '14 and '16.

      "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

      by Diana in NoVa on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:35:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Women are more at risk of having their voting (4+ / 0-)

      rights impaired by strict voter laws - for example, they change their names, making the voter ID laws harder to comply with.  They are more likely to be college students, more likely to be poor, more likely to have a hard time getting to the polls during restricted voting times.

      “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

      by ahumbleopinion on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:01:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  On the other hand, Phyllis Schlafly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vita Brevis

      organized the forces of misogyny to derail the Equal Rights Amendment, and we have had just as hard and bitter a struggle over Roe v. Wade and Griswold v. Connecticut as over undoing Jim Crow, including murders of doctors.

      However, it is not a numeric question of which had it worse for longer. Black women win that one hands down.

      Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

      by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 09:20:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It WILL be ugly, and that's why we've got to do it (13+ / 0-)

    Bill Clinton was the first president with any ties - however tenuous - to the sixties counterculture, and his election blew the lid off 30 years of simmering resentment. Barack Obama is the first black president, and his election has blown the lid off the depressingly substantial racism that was somewhat papered over before 2009, but still very much present. There is a good chance Hillary Clinton will be the first female president, and yes, that's going to have the same effect with respect to misogyny that Obama's election has had with respect to racism.

    Which is exactly why the sooner we go through that trauma, the better.

    You see, it isn't going to just gradually die down if we wait a few more years or decades. If anything, it will only get worse. People are getting more tolerant all the time, as Obama's two wins in the face of all the ugliness have shown, but that will only make the true haters out there dig in their heels all the more. The thing is, the louder the haters are, the harder it is for the rest of us to close our eyes to them, and ultimately the harder it will be for them to just blend in. Which is a good thing: in the clear light of day, hate looks like exactly what it is, and that makes it a lot harder to rationalize away. Which in turn makes more people reject it.

    Call me a cockeyed optimist if you want, but I honestly believe the way so many racists have shown their true colors since 2009 is a net positive in the long term: it has made it a lot harder for the Republicans to run on code words like "welfare queen" and have anyone to the left of John McCain fool themselves into thinking it ain't racist. It has opened the eyes of a lot of white Americans who assumed racism was dead - or at least a lot farther along the way there than it really is - because they themselves were not racist. I think a female president and the accompanying fallout from the loony right will have the same effect on men who currently don't appreciate how much sexism there still is out there. It's easy to think we're all equal now if you're a man and you want to believe we are. If we are bombarded day in and day out with jokes about a nuclear holocaust every 28 days and the like, "I want to believe sexism is dead" will lose an awful lot of its currency.

    Certaines personnes disent qu'il y a une femme à blâmer, Mais je sais que c'est ma faute sacrément.

    by RamblinDave on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:24:59 AM PDT

  •  Scares me, too. I notice that you didn't say not (8+ / 0-)

    to try for it, though. But yeah, seats and tray tables in the upright position, and seatbelts firmly fastened, because if it happens, we'll run into severe turbulence.

    There is one possible factor that might mitigate the level of crap Hillary gets tossed at her, of course, and that's the strong belief on the parts of most older white men that it's really Bill playing puppetmaster, and never mind what she's accomplished over the last 20 years.

    Either way the downside will be infuriating, and either way, it has to happen eventually - if not with Hillary, then with another strong woman candidate.

    mouseover the bar (I'm practicing for DK5)

    by serendipityisabitch on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:26:59 AM PDT

    •  Some of you get me better than others (4+ / 0-)

      We definitely need to move beyond this white-male-only political culture, and I will gladly and proudly support a female candidate. The point of my diary is to stress that we need to gird ourselves (very punny, no?) for a huge backlash. I don't think many progressives really understood the amount of unspoken racism that persists throughout our country. As Ferguson is showing us, many people refuse to accept that it's as deep-seated as it is.

      Well, I've witnessed the same amount of sexism everywhere I've been, and a female presidency will unleash that hatred as surely as Obama's unleashed that unspoken racism.

      I think these discussions are important to have now, because the Far Right completely blindsided Obama and neutered his mandate – and yes, winning by 10 million votes is a f---ing mandate – and made governing almost impossible. We need to be prepared for the same BS in 2016/2017. They can’t stop a competent progressive female president with logic or facts, so they will try to do it with distraction caused by sexism. Let us prepare now to shut them down then.

      •  I think what you're hearing (4+ / 0-)

        from me and others is that we're not surprised like you appear to be.

        As a black person in America I knew full well what would happen if Barack Obama won. When posters here ( mostly but not all black) would comment as such, we were oft dismissed, told it would happen to any Democrat, don't bring race into everything etc.

        As a woman in America, I know full well what will happen when a woman wins. I hope people will have had their ears opened at that point.

        I'll only speak for myself (but I'll hazard a guess that others well understand) but to this non-white female, concerns like this are "water's wet, no shit".

        That sounds harsh and maybe it is, but it's not meant maliciously just honestly .

        We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

        by Vita Brevis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 08:42:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I just joined, so (0+ / 0-)

          I can't comment on 2008 DK posts, but I can say I did read may a time that people expected BO wouldn't last one term (that he would be assassinated). I fully expected him to get grief beyond anything we'd seen, but I didn't figure the powers that be would hold the country hostage (e.g., the govt' shutdown, etc.) to oppose him. While one could argue that that's simply GOP vs. Dems politics, there were no Tea Party candidates until Obama got elected.

          I think I know full well what will happen when a woman wins, but I know most other men don't, and I even know many women don't. It may be "water's wet" to you, but it's not so to many people, including people here, so I thought it would be a worthwhile discussion for us.

        •  I just had a crazy thought... (0+ / 0-)

          ...can you imagine - just like the Tea Party grew in 2009, can you imagine a new party forming in 2017. It might be under the guise of smaller government, or getting back to "true" conservatism, or some other false front, but it's actually a men's rights party? As I wrote above, there's no limit to the extreme reactions people have anymore.

          •  No need (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Vita Brevis

            The Republicans are already a men's party. Well, older White men, preferably rich. And straight. And Christian. With lots of guns. Because if you want to be in the GOP, and you aren't all of that, or don't at least rabidly support all of that, you're just a RINO.

            Did I mention crazy?

            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

            by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 09:32:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Choosing weapons is the first thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kenny Herbert

    in the rules...and the first rule to be broken.

  •  Rec'd for discussion, thanks, nt (5+ / 0-)

    Do you live in SoCal? Connect! Unite! Act! Join Los Angeles Kossacks. I'm in CA-35. What's your district?

    by benamery21 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:32:16 AM PDT

  •  Women are 51% of the population (3+ / 0-)

    So, when the ass-wipe at the gym tries to use that logic, the women next to him will punch him in his barbells.
    You are correct about the hatred for Pres Obama.  I had such hope for our country when he was elected.  But, the haters shit on that hope and it's heartbreaking.

    I belong to the Honey Badger Wing of the Democratic Party. We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore. Have you seen our videos?

    by Cassandra77 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:34:32 AM PDT

    •  When Bill Clinton called for a discussion on race (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vita Brevis

      as President, he was completely ignored on the Left and Right both. We are actually having that conversation now. Republicans freak out about it, but that means that even in the echo chamber there is an awareness that the question exists.

      We are also having conversations about women, immigration, marriage equality, war, guns, and income inequality in ways that we could not under W. Marriage equality is actually moving along quite well, and then we can get down to ENDA and so on.

      Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

      by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 09:38:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Cockroaches scurry away when the lights come on (4+ / 0-)

    But that's not an argument for staying in the dark.

  •  whether black, white, female, or green (8+ / 0-)

    if the next President is a Democrat, the hate machine will hate.  They'll manufacture something, it just doesn't matter to them.  But if the next President is a Republican, the country is done.

    sometimes the dragon wins

    by kathy in ga on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:35:41 AM PDT

  •  The "first anything" always has (8+ / 0-)

    something to deal with and try to overcome. The first black man POTUS has brought about the amount of racism that still exists in America.  The first woman POTUS will bring out whatever "isms" (sexism, womanism, etc.) are hiding out there. The first atheist POTUS (loving those diaries) will have obstacles to navigate through. The first Jewish POTUS, the first Muslim POTUS, shall I go on?

    There will always be a first "something" that needs to lead the way. It is in our DNA as humans.

    If you acknowledge it, you can change it.

    by Raggedy Ann on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:35:51 AM PDT

  •  Racism has not "gotten worse"...its gotten.... (11+ / 0-)

    more visible. The Obama presidency put a spotlight on the cockroaches that have been allowed to gather unfettered for over two kids, the insanity you read about in your history books is not a relic of another age. Its still with us, but it will get better through natural attrition of the bigots and several generations of young people that are sick of the crap that has been used to divide us.

    •  I hope you're right, but... (0+ / 0-)

      ...racism is learned, and many parents today still teach it. I keep thinking we'll grow beyond it, but I keep being disappointed time and time again.

      So, too, with sexism. I wish I were wrong, but the proof is in the pudding. The growth of fundamental Christianity, Mormonism and Islam are all counter to women's rights and protections. Sadly, women are often made to feel worthless by their parents, spouses, kids, whoever, and so they welcome the acceptance of a religious community even at great cost to their own freedoms, because they don't feel worthless, even as they are worth less as a person.

      •  Pew Research is the best source for polling (0+ / 0-)

        on racism and other social issues over time, and the associated Pew Forum on religion. We are making an astonishing 3% progress per year on marriage equality,  and about 1% on most other social issues and Evangelical/Fundamentalist/Religious Right membership. The rate at which people drop any religious affiliation has been steady at 0.5% for decades.

        Millennials in Adulthood

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 09:59:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Women account for 52% of the nation's population (4+ / 0-)

    Its easy for bigoted people to rail on blacks who are a distinct minority and usually live far away from their neighborhoods, not so easy to talk do the same when there are usually 2 women living under the same roof.

    Electorally, I would WELCOME the GOP's anti-woman rhetoric so we can finally drive them into whig status where they belong. Bring it on.

    •  This is an interesting approach (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic, serendipityisabitch

      "Electorally, I would WELCOME the GOP's anti-woman rhetoric so we can finally drive them into whig status where they belong. Bring it on."

      The only negative I see is I can hear the opposition saying all the right things before the election, and then unleashing their fury after the election. The GOP has basically done nothing useful or meaningful under Obama except to fight him on everything, and yet they still control Congress. Unless and until we can change that, we can't "drive them into whig status."

      And to be honest, I'd appreciate if we could drive the TP into whig status and see a new, more moderate GOP develop, so the Dems can move back to the true left, and we can have a functional two-party system again.

      •  If they still had their old message discipline (0+ / 0-)

        that would be a real worry. But that is long gone. The RNC and College RNC tried to talk to the party about its attitudes to women, minorities, immigrants, LGBTs, and more, and the response was to refuse to moderate the message in any way and to double down on the hate, including hatred for the supposed RINOs.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 10:03:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  This is precisely how I feel about it. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kenny Herbert, Dillonfence

      Women constitute an electoral majority, AND every man has a momma. The Republicans can launch sexist attacks at President Hillary at their own risk.

      Battling psychiatric myths with sensible skepticism at

      by candid psychiatrist on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 08:46:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They were pretty anti-women in 2012... (0+ / 0-)

        ...on the negative side, they still got 44% of the female vote, which is a sizable percentage of people voting against their interests; on the positive side, that the 55% that voted the other way cost the GOP the election.

        The problem, however, isn't just the White House, but Congress, and I haven't seen ANY forecasts predicting the Dems win the house and a supermajority in the Senate, so will we move forward, or will we have another four or eight years of a do-nothing Congress? Time will tell.

        •  Pat Roberts in Kansas looks set to lose (0+ / 0-)

          his Senate seat, which has flipped predictions on who holds the Senate. The Democrat dropped out, leaving the field to the Independent, who polled ten points ahead of Roberts. If he caucuses with the Democrats, then instead of a 55% or so chance for Republicans to take the Senate, Rachel Maddow quoted a prediction that it is about 85% likely that Democrats will hold the majority.

          The case will be different in 2016, when Hillary will have the chance to energize the base to take the House, and the Senate can then take up nuking the filibuster on legislation. Also various long-term Democratic GOTV projects, mostly in Southern states, are predicted to flip a few in each cycle for the next decade or so, because there are so many unregistered potential voters to go after, especially so many Blacks, Latinos, and Asians. Bannock Street Project, Moral Mondays, Battleground Texas…

          Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

          by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 10:09:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Best protect the little gals (4+ / 0-)

    from such a humiliation.  Indeed it will be better for all girls if no female exposes herself and any of them to more sexism than already exists.  Poor dears deserve better.

    A female presidency!!!  Yikes!!!  

    (But your argument is original, I'll give it that.)

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:47:06 AM PDT

    •  You do understand... (0+ / 0-)

      ...that I want a female president, don't you? At no point did I ever argue against it, I wrote about my fear of the increase in sexism that seems sure to follow. If the hateful reactions to Obama's presidency can be of any lesson, let's apply them to a female candidate and what she'll likely face, and let's discuss it NOW rather than be blindsided by a tsunami of hatred disguised as politics.

  •  When a party rails against a candidate, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kathy Scheidel, Onomastic

    regardless of whom that may be, because she is female, that slaps 52% of the population in the face.

    Despite the GOP's hatred of HRC, if she is hated BECAUSE she is female, that won't sit well with most women (except those that adhere to the male 'head of the household' types which is a religion problem).

    I don't like HRC, but mention one word about her being "female" in regard to her abilities etc., and one will get a serious rise out of me and I become a defender.

    Will it be brought up? Absolutely it will and you can bet it will be mauled by men and women alike. Gender disparity has NO place anyplace.

    The only hawk I like is the kind that has feathers. My birding blogs: and

    by cany on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:53:07 AM PDT

  •  She knows what's coming as it has never stopped (3+ / 0-)

    since it started when Bill became President.

    I totally agree with you though but that should not stop her

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:55:01 AM PDT

    •  It started BEFORE Bill became president (3+ / 0-)

      Even before Bill had clenched the '92 nomination, there were "I guess I could have stayed home and baked cookies" (raising the ire of an awful lot of folks who thought that was just what she should have been doing) and "I'm not standing by my man like Tammy Wynette" (infuriating any number of the Beltway crowd who more than likely had never even heard that song). My mother, who is if anything to my left and has always identified as feminist, has hated her ever since the cookies comment, actually, probably because she was an unwilling stay at home mom herself.

      Certaines personnes disent qu'il y a une femme à blâmer, Mais je sais que c'est ma faute sacrément.

      by RamblinDave on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:09:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't want to stop her (3+ / 0-)

      I want to prepare for the insane, sexist arguments we're going to face over the next four or eight years (if all goes well).

  •  It doesn't matter about (6+ / 0-)

    Gender, race, etc. If it is a Democrat, then the RW won't CARE about qualifications or skills. They will hit the chord which will sow the most dissent.

    The RW will criticize ANYTHING THEY CAN, simply because it is a Dem.

    Don't let that slow you/us down.

    - MM

    The difference for me is consent. Are you receiving a gift or taking a prize?

    by MightyMoose on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:55:11 AM PDT

    •  My thoughts exactly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kathy Scheidel, Sylv

      Just look at Laura Bush and the way the right wing howled in outrage when they even thought someone might criticize her. They might as well have spent eight years screaming "How DARE you treat her the way we treated Hillary!" (I must admit, though, that would indeed have been totally unacceptable had we ever done any such thing. But we didn't.)

      Certaines personnes disent qu'il y a une femme à blâmer, Mais je sais que c'est ma faute sacrément.

      by RamblinDave on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:10:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You could've just left it at... (0+ / 0-)

      ...The RW will criticize ANYTHING THEY CAN, simply because...

      But seriously, they're awfully good at framing the discussion, with the emphasis on "awful." For example, "You know who talks about racism? Racists!" Racists can jump on that bandwagon because it excludes them and it puts the accusation squarely on their opponents' shoulders, even though the statement makes no sense. It appeals to them because it flatters them rather than call them out for their dark underbelly of hatred.

      We have to acknowledge that and learn to frame the conversation (or call them on their BS framing).  

  •  odd fear when places far more (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RamblinDave, Vita Brevis

    conservative than the US have had women presidents (India, Pakistan...)

    Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. Russia Today=FoxNews, Seralini=Wakefield. yadda yadda.

    by terrypinder on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 06:59:28 AM PDT

    •  Did you read the diary, or just the headline? (0+ / 0-)

      Because I think I explained my concerns repeatedly. I'll gladly welcome a woman president, but there is a strong and powerful minority that will make her presidency a living hell because of the threat she represents to their status quo.

      •  I read both. (0+ / 0-)

        They will react badly to anyone the Democratic Party nominates. Their presidency, should they win, will absolutely be a living hell.

        Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility. Russia Today=FoxNews, Seralini=Wakefield. yadda yadda.

        by terrypinder on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 10:56:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Flawed starting point (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, renzo capetti
    I worry because of what has happened during Obama’s presidency, when his election supposedly broke down the wall of racism
    Who ever said President Obama's election did or was supposed to do this?

    By this logic, there should never be a "first" .

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:10:42 AM PDT

    •  I worry because (0+ / 0-)

      I'd bet many blacks hoped for change in 2008, but ask those same people today and some will say things have gotten worse.

      In the same way, I'd like a better world for my daughters and granddaughters, but I see things getting worse. Yes, we need to move forward, and yes, I will rejoice if and when we elect a female president, but if there's anything to take from our nation's experience with Obama, it's that moving forward sometimes creates a wicked backlash. I'd like to think we've gone two steps forward and maybe a step back, but we might've done the reverse:  his election was a great (but single) step forward, but it caused two steps back.

      If as others have suggested it will benefit us in the long run by airing our dirty laundry, then we're in the midst of a very important transition. A woman president would be yet another very important transition, and I can easily see the Far Right going completely apoplectic, unable to comprehend the majority's utter rejection of their arch-conservative ways. If they continue to hold the House of Representatives, I see a very self-destructive Congress - yes, even worse than now - in the near future.

      It's not illogical that there should be a first, it's only likely that the first will cause turmoil because it challenges the status quo.

      •  Well no one appointed me spokesperson (3+ / 0-)

        for the all black people everywhere club, but all of the black people I know in real life and others in the virtual realm saw this coming. None of  this was unexpected. Doesn't mean it's not painful to get through, just "is".   Judging from many of the comments here, women's (and many men's) eyes are wide open in re: first woman.

        Is this largely a worry of white male progressives? Just a question.

        We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

        by Vita Brevis on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 09:34:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you have the time, (0+ / 0-)

          read the comments to my "Why I am a Feminist" diary. I acknowledge upfront that I'm only a tourist in the feminist world; just as I'll never know what it's like to be black, I'll never know what it's like to be a woman. Well, I can make an effort to understand better, or I can assume lots and think I know better.

          As the responses to my diary showed, some men, some of whom even identified themselves as progressive/feminist, chose the second approach (assume lots and think they know better).

          Also, as I wrote to another above, blacks were pretty united (93%) behind Obama; women have never been that united behind a candidate; polls about Clinton show her getting about 60% of the female vote. That's a landslide election-wise, but that's still two-out-of-five against, so there are a lot of women who will be on the wrong side of women's issues, who will be voting against their own interests, and who will be on the other side of the fence when we are battling the propaganda machine.

          IOW, there are a lot of women who see this much differently than you and I do. But here, on DK, I'd think most see it better than the average person. Even the men, although as my prior diary showed, they may not all get it as well as we hope.

        •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

          A number of us Hillary supporter have been saying for a long time that we are in for a misogyny fest of biblical proportions. probably for the next 10 years.

          But I guess it takes a man to get the message through on DK. And I predict it will become an acceptable reason here to oppose Hillary. She's a troublemaker now, as well as a status-quo Wall St shill. She's a Hitleresque warmonger. She's your mother scolding you, and somebody who just makes you want to cross your legs...

          American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

          by atana on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 11:45:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  never allow the worst people to dictate the tone (4+ / 0-)

    Yeah, a female president will upset a lot of old-school sexists, just as a black president upset a lot of racists.

    Too bad for them.   They have stupid ideas, so it'll be good for them to see them destroyed.  Yep, it'll make for a rough time for everybody, but sometimes that's what it takes to have progress.  No birth comes without pain... including the birth of a better society.  

    All real change comes generationally.  So even while the old guard is upset at the status quo changing, the younger ones, who'll make the future, see that the most important person in the world can be black, or female.  That's a good thing.  

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:27:50 AM PDT

  •  Bush was last straight white male President. N/T (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kenny Herbert

    I voted with my feet. Good Bye and Good Luck America!!

    by shann on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:43:44 AM PDT

  •  To me, this diary is a bit odd, or "off." (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    renzo capetti, Kenny Herbert

    This diarist, on the face of it, seems to advocate keeping white men in charge, because bigots have to be appeased--don'cha know.

    "Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come." --Rumi

    by karmsy on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:46:02 AM PDT

    •  I don't advocate that at all (0+ / 0-)

      I only fear that things are going to get very ugly, only in a sexist way rather than a racist way, and I think it's worth discussing now. Vita Brevis wrote above, "As a black person in America I knew full well what would happen if Barack Obama won." Well, I didn't know that.

      Having seen it for six years now, I know it very well. And hearing that we will have a woman president, I want to prepare for the propaganda and the lies and the out-and-out misogyny that we're certain to face then. The racism arguments have grown so ridiculous today that I'm still having arguments with people that Ferguson isn't proof of anything. Ferguson.

      Here's another fly in the ointment:  with Obama, 93% of blacks voted for Obama; only 55% of women voted for him. That's still a landslide in election terms, but it's not nearly as one-sided as blacks for Obama. Can you name one female issue - abortion, contraceptives, ERA, etc. - that wins 93% of women's support? I can't. We can't expect the same near-unanimity among women that Dems got with blacks.

      •  So not as high a percentage of women (3+ / 0-)

        will vote for Hillary, vs. the % of AAs who voted for Obama, is that your concern? It doesn't matter, Hillary will not need anywhere close to as big a percentage of female voters to win.

        I suspect (if nominated, which I expect she will be) she will take a percentage of female independents and maybe even a small number of moderate Republican women, which will be good I suppose as she is likely also going to lose some small percentage of Democratic voters who don't feel she represents their interests.

        •  I'm not so worried about the national election... (0+ / 0-)

          ...which the GOP will probably concede as much as I am concerned about the national dialogue, which we will have difficulty having, let alone winning.

          Look at the national dialogue on race. "What dialogue?" you ask, which is exactly my point. We're not even having a dialogue, because Obama. Rather than have a female leader who can stand up for women's rights, the powers that be will try to shut that dialogue down before she can even have it.

          Several commenters have said women will speak out, women are the majority, women will teach their fathers/sons/husbands to understand, etc. If it were only that easy.

          The problem is will we even have a national dialogue, and will it be an honest one? Or will all the misogyny be shrouded in political machinations, in propaganda and lies. For example, the Clear Skies Act made polluting easier. Will there be a Women's Rights Act that will, say, make abortion illegal? Will the Hobby Lobby decision spill into more health, education and welfare issues? That may sound ridiculous, but that's exactly how they play this game.

          Look how they got so many working class people to fight against guaranteed health care. The powers that be have so controlled the information that many seniors still think the ACA is akin to communism, even as they scream don't touch my Medicare! The anti-feminist version of the mind-bending anti-Obama rumor mill is coming soon.

          "Cause when they own the information
          Oh, they can bend it all they want" (John Mayer, "Waiting On The World To Change")

          •  I dunno (0+ / 0-)

            Yes there has been a lot of BS from them during this presidency, but overall, we went forward rather than backward. I don't see much reason to believe they will be more successful with the pushback next time around, particularly given that women are harder to successfully demonize, even in a fairly red state (see: Akin & Mourdock, et al.).

            •  Butter! I haven't seen you in months (0+ / 0-)

              Where have you been?

              Yes, I was one of those working for Blue Dog Joe Donnelly in Indiana against Richard "Rape babies are God's will" Mourdock. Donnelly has since evolved on guns and gays, thought not on abortion.

              The way to demonize almost anybody starts with cutting yourself off from them, as explained in The Evolution of Cooperation, which I Diaried recently. The most effective demonizers of women are those running boys-only Muslim madrassas. But step two is just to get them to shut up when not repeating what their lords and masters told them to say, under the rule of

              When I want to hear your opinion, I'll tell it to you.
              The Religious Right has that one down pat, at any rate among their own women and girls.

              But as you say, it is much harder to demonize women to anybody outside their bubble.

              Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

              by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 10:43:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, some of us are having that conversation (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Vita Brevis

            on race that was going nowhere only a few years ago. The contribution from the far Right is

            To howl and to moan
            And to shriek and to groan
            And to kick up their heels against the winder.
            That is, to say that Reparations means enslaving Whites, and that Obama is a racist, and so are all Liberals, and Socialist tyranny!!! But as I said above, that means they have to take notice that it exists. As Gandhi said,
            First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
            On race as on a number of other issues we can no longer be ignored, and the response has gone from laughing to fighting.  We will not win immediately, but we will win.

            Thoughtful discussion can now appear in some publications and some cable channels and some places on the Net, more than when it was only the real Left and Blacks themselves discussing race.

            Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

            by Mokurai on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 10:28:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  The fear is your problem (0+ / 0-)

    Gender does not matter.  Qualifications do.

    An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

    by don mikulecky on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 07:57:06 AM PDT

  •  This is a good, thought-provoking diary KH. But (2+ / 0-)

    I do agree with others here that avoiding the issue is not going to help or change anything. I'm not a big Hillary fan but she is the only woman in this country who is well-positioned for a real shot at, and probable win of the presidency. As I've said many times, I will vote for her if she is the dem nominee and if her opponent is a Repub/Bagger marionette of the same ilk as say, McCain or Romney. I think that you are absolutely correct to say there will be vehement, hate-filled and bigoted rhetoric against her on the part of the RW, and it will be thinly disguised as is the racism surrounding Obama, but perhaps bringing it to the forefront and exposing the perpetrators will eventually help to expunge this crap from our national dialogue?

    •  I am all for... (0+ / 0-)

      "bringing it to the forefront and exposing the perpetrators will eventually help to expunge this crap from our national dialogue." That's kind of my point, to discuss and prepare for the inevitable tsunami of propaganda, lies and misogyny that are bound to "welcome" our first female president.

  •  Good diary... (2+ / 0-) not convinced that the election of President Obama has been a negative to national race relations. It does appear that a lot of people who hate the idea of having a Black president are finding all kinds of "other reasons" to hide that behind. However, in my opinion, a lot of those folks would be doing the same thing anyway, even if we had a White Democrat as president their mind that White Democrat was only president because of all of the Blacks.

    Just think about it...Obama haters have come up with some of the most ludicrous arguments to oppose him for. He wasn't born here. The economy sucks (despite that fact that it sucked a whole lot worse before he took office and has steadily improved since he has). Heck...some on the right are even complaining that President Obama's economic policies hurt blacks more than whites (despite the fact that most of those folks have never before been "concerned" about the economic plight of blacks in this country).

    People have a way of rationalizing in the most obtuse, pretzel-like way to justify their ideology.

    You're likely right, that a female president will go through a lot of the same things. The remaining sexists in this country will find all kinds of "other reasons" to hide behind in opposing a President Hillary Clinton. my opinion...playing through all of this nonsense is a necessary...if uncomfortable....thing for us all to go through on the road toward a less sexist...and a less racist society.

  •  from my point of view... (0+ / 0-)

    democrat and republican, the word is POLITICIAN! does anyone really trust politicians? i was so ready for  Obama to be elected, but in the primary i voted for Clinton. am i ready to shake the tree, fall what may? what do you think?

  •  why i fear women wearing revealing clothing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    because the bad people will take advantage...  blah blah..

    do you realize your argument is the same?

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 10:39:57 AM PDT

  •  You think this news to women? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vita Brevis

    American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

    by atana on Wed Sep 03, 2014 at 11:37:10 AM PDT

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