In an interview Tuesday on Morning Joe, publicist Rob Goldstone contradicted statements from Jared Kushner that he left the Trump Tower meeting early, saying that everyone left the room together. This is consistent with Goldstone’s earlier testimony. Goldstone also indicated that it wasn’t his emails that got Donald Trump Jr. to set up the meeting, but whatever Russian billionaire Emin Agalarov said on the phone when they spoke.
In general, there were no “bombshells” to be taken from Goldstone’s appearance. His statements on Morning Joe only elaborated on testimony he had already given, and he didn’t contradict the idea that the meeting was rather a rambling gathering that didn’t produce a lot of obvious enthusiasm on either side. According to Goldstone, he appealed to Donald Trump Jr. as “almost the lower rung on the totem pole” and used his emails to primarily talk with Agalarov. However, Goldstone recalls Kushner asking Russian Attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya to “refocus” after he appeared to have lost the thread of the discussion, and Kushner being upset when Veselnitskaya seemed to simply repeat previous statements. At the end of the meeting, everyone left together.
This his original security form, his second security form, and on documents provided to the Senate Intelligence Committee, Kushner failed to mention being present at the Trump Tower meeting. In other testimony, both Kushner and Veselnitskaya have maintained that Kushner arrived at the meeting late and left before it was over.
In testimony, Kushner’s statements matched those of Veselnitskaya—he said he arrived at the meeting after it started and left after only a few minutes. Trump Jr. has also stated that Kushner left early.
Question: So, returning to the meeting, what did Mr. Kushner do during the meeting? Did he ask any questions or make any comments?
Trump Jr: None that I recall. He showed up a few minutes late and left a few minutes early to take a phone call.
But Goldstone remembers Kushner being present for the full meeting, and asking a question. It’s not a huge discrepancy … but it is interesting. Because a lot of people seem to be insistent on having Jared Kushner outside the room for part of the conversation.
Goldstone’s testimony that Kushner was present for the entire meeting—except perhaps a brief time at the beginning—matches what he said in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Question: Was Mr. Kushner present for the entire meeting?
Goldstone: To the best of my knowledge, he was. He may have entered a minute or so after we all entered, but I believe he was. And the reason for that is because of the seating. They worked out who should sit where, and I sat next to Mr. Kushner. There was only he and I sat at this side of the table.
In the Morning Joe interview, Goldstone stated that he believed “We all left at the same time,” though he said Kushner may have “dashed out” at the end.
As CNN reported in May, Russian businessman Ike Kaveladze testified that Kushner was present for the entire meeting. So did lobbyist Rinat Akhmetshin, who was at the meeting. And his answer gives some hint at why others may have been so insistent about Kushner’s “absence.”
Akhmetshin: I was asked before when did (Kushner) leave, but I remember he was there when at least for part of Ziff Brothers discussion because I looked at him and I thought that there are not that many billionaires in New York of that age. So, he probably knows them well.
It seems likely that some of those being interviewed are anxious to make it clear that there were parts of the meeting that Kushner did not hear. The Ziff Brothers discussion—a claim from Veselnitskaya that the three billionaire Ziff brothers illegally purchased shares in a Russian company and two of them also gave large donations to the Democratic Party—seemed to be part of the discussion where Kushner, Trump Jr., and Veselnitskaya were intent on making it appear that Kushner was “out of the room.” Exactly why they were insistent that that he missed this remains unclear. But both Goldstone and Akhmetshin have Kushner there for this discussion and also asking questions, indicating that he was paying attention to what was said.
The Trump Tower meeting was just one of contacts and meetings with Russian officials which Kushner failed to report in his security documents.
In July, Agalarov denied saying anything about providing material against Hillary Clinton and said his discussion with Trump Jr. was little more than “there are some people who want to meet you.”