Lately, I've been in the habit of discussing (arguing) the Iraq withdrawal points with many republican friends of mine... both in blogland and in my daily life, many of them so red they warm the place up as soon as they enter. My results below the fold.
My take on the withdrawal may be slightly unorthodox. Let me state upfront I think an "immediate" withdrawal is logistically impossible and physically unsafe for our troops. That said, I agree with Murtha that the major animus for the resistance is our presence. I also agree that a significant draw down of troops in theater will lead to a significant decrease in casualties and violence. Though ultimately I see Iraq spiraling towards a long and bloody civil war.
Now, I relay such information to my republican colleagues along the lines of this statement:
It seems to me that what we're learning, once again, is that the weak are capable of imposing a hefty amount of political and physical pain on the strong, regardless of the imbalance in power. Which makes the whole "remake the middle east" slogan seem dangerously naive, right?
Usually, this results in some staring, blinking, and leg shaking. After that though, my red friends finally summon the courage, almost all of them actually, this absurdly bold line:
Well, I don't accept the premise of your statement. We aren't experiencing significant pain, nor significant political setback, from Iraqi insurgents. They are thugs, and they are being routed. So I don't see how the remake the middle east is anything other than bringing the fight to the terrorists. Things are progressing as expected in Iraq. Attacks are down. And we're even bringing the Sunnis around to negotiations.
Annoying huh? Personally, I get so angry at the implication that we haven't "lost" anything. These are the same people that want us to make it impossible for a woman to have an abortion because "every life is sacred" but at the same time, they don't give a damn about any innocent Iraqis who have been slaugthered, nor do they give a damn about our young men and women who have been sacrificed. They talk about how 9/11 changed everything, but a war with four times the causulties of 9/11 is just peachy? I usually am not able to summon a response other than: "f you buddy, some of my friends have died in this shitfest." But thats not really good. Here is the reply, feel free to use it as you wish.
Well, if you think things are going so well, then why don't we pull our troops out now?
Also, just to add a little salt in the wound,
By the way, you referenced talks with Sunnis. Usually, when an occupier asks to have talks with rebels, its called "suing for peace".
I've used both those lines a couple of times. The first one they just lie about. But the second one really gets them. Some of them come around, and they realize, George W. Bush has lost this war.