I've been getting into it the last couple of days with conservatives in my Psychology of Adolescence course. Since the debate is via Blackboard discussion board, I can easily copy and paste some of it here, thereby blatantly disregarding my fellow student's privacy. ;-) (just kidding...I masked her last name)
I do this in part because I thought some of you might find it interesting to see inside the dark, confused mind of a Bible Belt mother and home-ec teacher who is going back to school for some kind of additional teacher certification. And this is after all a "diary", right? This is what's going on with me at the moment. I'll also admit, though, that I share it to demonstrate my liberal bonafides to some of you who might be sceptics. You see, what I enjoy doing most online is to engage in debate. On Kos, that necessarily means highlighting my differences with other liberals. But in most other forums it means leading the charge against right wing nitwits.
See what I mean, if you like, below the fold:
Current Forum: Forum 5: Families
Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:03 am
Author: Thomas, Alan
Subject: Re: Hey, if you put politics on the table...
"I was not necessarly trying to bring politics or religion into the discussions"
Wow, you could have fooled me! Come on, you can't take it back: "The Great Debate" clearly refers to politics, and so does much of your original post [which objected to the anti-spanking bent of the material provided by the professor, by citing people like Rush Limbaugh and James Dobson]. I don't have a problem with that--I'm only too happy to respond in kind--but own up to it! Aren't you guys supposed to be about "taking personal responsibility"? LOL
"I, as a conservative, feel the exact same way in reverse, that many liberals look down on us conservatives."
To be honest, it's hard not to. The "red states" (the ones that voted for Bush) not only are inferiour in terms of health, education, child welfare, and the success of marriages, they also map almost exactly to the states where slavery (and later, segregation of the races, lynching, etc.) was practiced. And conservatives rail against the Enlightenment, essentially; they don't want to accept science, reason, or (it often seems) basic human compassion. We liberals would have to be willfully blind not to look down on that.
"I do not follow the point you are trying to make by asking me if I have ever read Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. I thought maybe I had missed something in the bible, but upon re-reading, I don't follow you."
It plainly shows that if Jesus were an American voter today, he would not vote for Republicans. Religious conservatives in America are eerily similar to the Pharisees and other religious hypocrites he denounced in Matthew 6:
"Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them."
Who is more visible (on TV, in giant stadiums, etc.): conservative Christians or liberal ones? It's not even close.
Continuing in Matthew 6:
"Do not accumulate for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But accumulate for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also...You cannot serve God and money."
Funny, then, how dedicated Republicans are to giving big tax breaks to the rich! Did you know that even though the media didn't talk about this much, the best predictor of whether someone voted for Kerry or Bush was their income? The poorest voted overwhelmingly for Kerry, while the richest voted overwhelmingly for Bush. Which side do you think Jesus would have more sympathy for?
One more passage from Matthew 6. While reading, consider: does this sound more like a Republican who lives in a nice suburban house and drives a late model car and wears a suit to work? Or does it sound more like the way a bunch of carefree hippies would think?
"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Isn't there more to life than food and more to the body than clothing? Look at the birds in the sky: They do not sow, or reap, or gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you more valuable than they are? And which of you by worrying can add even one hour to his life? Why do you worry about clothing? Think about how the flowers of the field grow; they do not work or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his glory was clothed like one of these!"
Okay, now back to your post:
"As far as the stat's [sic] that both you and I refer to, my opinion on them is akin to the old quote 'there are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics'".
Just because something is an old saying, doesn't make it true. (Do you like the one "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach?" I sure don't, and I doubt any of us in this class do--but it is passed around by the same kinds of people who spout the "damned lies" bit.) If it were "then there are people who distort statistics" I'd buy it more. Statistics are an incredibly valuable tool in the seeking of truth.
"One thing I did learn from my stat class is that you can say 'statistically' just about anything you want, whether it's youth violence has increased or youth violence has actually been on a steep decline for over a decade."
No, you really can't. When it comes to youth violence, there's no denying that it HAS been on a steep decline for over a decade. (Admittedly, it rose for a couple decades before that.) http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/8571.html "The epidemic of youth violence in the United States peaked in 1993 and has been followed by a rapid, sustained drop." What evidence do you have to the contrary? And how do you explain that the region where they do the most spanking (and the most Republican voting) is the one with the highest rate of violence and most other social ills?
Update [2005-2-13 14:34:33 by SlackerInc]:
The following from "Anonymous" appeared on the "Questions?" board a while ago. How much you want to bet this is a fundie right winger complaining, seeing his/her precious Bible quoted accurately to her and finding that offensive? LOL Furthermore, who else thinks "Anonymous" was actually the poster I was debating with, who can't stand the heat and so is looking for an excuse to get out? (She alerted me to the "anonymous" post, saying that we'd better stop talking politics as a result.)
Current Forum: Questions??????
Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:31 am
Author: Anonymous
Subject: Is it appropriate?
I do understand that all of us have opinions, however I believe there is a point where the line must be drawn. I find it inappropriate to discuss religion and politics to the point Forum 5 has taken us. Some of the comments have become offensive to me. If it is needed to continue the personal discussions I feel that it should be done by personal email and not on the forum where everyone else can see. It would be different if we were discussing these topics as a class, but we are not.