Right now. Just to let y'all know..
Beinart: "I don't think there is a passion among liberals today for winning the war on terrorism."
More updates to follow. Worth tuning in for.
Franken and Beinart agree that moral values is an issue and Franken points out that the war on terrorism has a values dimension to it.
Franken thinks we can fight a smarter war on terrorism and hurt the WoT by going into Iraq. And that Kerry spoke to this. Mentions the issue of nuclear proliferation and Beinart agrees that it's a "scandal" that BushCo has done little about the problem of loose nukes.
Franken asks what happens when our liberal candidate makes an issue of nuclear proliferation and the Bush administration, for all their talk about fighting terrorism, does nothing about it.
Beinart repeats for the fifth time that he "couldn't agree more," but thinks we have to grapple with why we aren't perceived as the party of national security.
Update [2004-12-7 13:17:17 by daria g]:
Now talking about "soft" liberals like Michael Moore who opposed the war in Afghanistan. Franken replies that Moore's view on Afghanistan was a "very, very, very marginal view," and Beinart replies by bringing up MoveOn.org's opposition.
Franken: "So, let's talk about an effective war on terror," and says warlordism is still ongoing not to mention the drug trade, and that we totally blew it in Afghanistan.
Beinart: The Democrats' alternative should be modeled on what Truman did, and include a new Marshall Plan for the Muslim world - that we should have a passion for the war against totalitarianism in the Muslim world. That Democrats must do this in order to convince the American people that we can be trusted with national security, and that in fact we need to support a bigger military - while Bush's tax cuts have underfunded the government to the extent that we can't pay for national security.
Update [2004-12-7 13:29:36 by daria g]:
Beinart repeats that MoveOn and Moore undermined our cred on defense by opposing the Afghan war, and Franken responds that most liberals supported it & that Kerry was the first to really bring up Tora Bora and problems there.
Beinart repeating from his article that like in the late 40s there is a concern about who is allowed to speak in liberalism's name. Says Dems must handle the issue of security with more care if they're going to start winning elections.
Franken replies that the war on terror may not be "as big a deal" as the Cold War + war against communism. And repeats that we nominated a guy who would fight a more effective war against terrorism, and goes back to the argument (mentioning a piece by Ted Kennedy a couple years ago) that the war on Iraq has undermined the war on terrorism. Quotes Kennedy saying that a war in Iraq would "swell the ranks of Al Qaeda sympathizers" and increase terrorism.
Beinart tries to explain "the evolution" of his position on Iraq & mentions the history of Saddam's attempts to develop a nuclear weapon as a great concern, and says the "crumbling" sanctions lead TNR to support the idea of changing regimes. Claimes they had no idea the war would be as bungled as it was.
Update [2004-12-7 13:47:1 by daria g]:
More talk on Iraq, especially on how incompetently the Bushies handled reconstruction and ignored everything Clinton's people learned in the 90s. I summarized it all and hit "Delete" and lost it.. but.. now on Kerry's comment that we're closing firehouses in the US and opening them in Baghdad. Beinart thinks Kerry suggested there was a zero-sum situation and that we couldn't do both - Franken adamantly disagrees and says Kerry's point was simply that we should pay for it by taking the funds out of the tax cut, and that we shouldn't only make our soliders & their families & our firefighters sacrifice. Beinart said Kerry and Edwards were simply wrong - while Biden and others were right - on voting against the final $87 billion. They both agree the way the money was spent was an absolute scandal.
Beinart says he wrote the article to provoke a debate among liberals because "I'm a liberal." Franken's co-host (name escapes me) asks Beinart to define a liberal. Beinart: "Human rights and democracy are the prism through which you view your efforts to build a better world." ... paraphrase: Economic growth must help the poor.. liberalism does best when America is a benevolent force in the world. Cites Truman, Kennedy, and Clinton in this tradition.