To my chagrin, I have a relative who is the epitome of a Bush Republican. Christian but not practicing. Ex-military. Pull-yourself-up-ya-lazy-bastid capitalist. Smart, but not as smart as he thinks he is. Sloppy with facts. Takes criticism badly. That being said, he sends me talking points all the time. Todays was from Andy Rooney.
Actually, not really. It was just attributed to him and some wingnut set it free to travel about, forwarded gleefully by the ignorant and sanctimonious. One can't let these things slide though, so my rebuttal followed quickly -
As usual, your simple minded argument is limited in scope, discriminate in its statistics, easily refuted and just as easily fact-checked. But then, I guess that's what you get for taking your "facts" from Andy Rooney. But of course he stole these exact words from the internet, perhaps even here . All things considered, if you really wanted the truth about these assertions, you'd go to the site and read the rest of the article.
DID YOU KNOW? As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!
As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door. As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments! There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.
Moses and the 10 Commandments appear a mere 3 times in the archetecture of the Supreme Court building. Neither Moses nor the Commandments are given a sole, or even, prominant place in any of the locations. In the East Frieze, Moses (with his blank tablets) is only one of 3 figures surrounded by artistic representations of various legal themes. The artist, Herman MacNeil, described his intentions in creating the sculpture as follows: Law as an element of civilization was normally and naturally derived or inherited in this country from former civilizations. The "Eastern Pediment" of the Supreme Court Building suggests therefore the treatment of such fundamental laws and precepts as are derived from the East. Moses, Confucius and Solon are chosen as representing three great civilizations and form the central group of this Pediment" Nothing in his explaination implies that Moses is anything other than one of three lawgivers from the East, nor that there is a special connection between American law and the 10 Commandments. On the South Courtroom Frieze, Moses once again holds blank tablets. He is one of 18 figures which include Hammurabi, Confucius, and Mohammad. Again, no special emphasis for the Commandments. As for the oak doors, the Commandments are inside, below eye level, and lack the prominance one would expect if they were the basis of American law.
James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:" We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
He also said, "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever? Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess and to observe the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
In 1797,the Treaty of Tripoli was proposed and ratified by our government. Article 11 of the treaty include this quote: "As the Government of the United States...is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity of Musselmen--and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." President John Adams and his Secretary of State, Thomas Pickering both endorsed the document. It was ratified by the Senate in a unanimous vote. Although this was the 339th time a recorded vote had been required by the Senate, it was only the third unanimous vote in the Senate's history. There is no record of dissent. Surprising, if we were indeed supposed to be founded as a Christian nation.
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.
Madison (again) - "Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In the strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The establishment of the chaplainship to Congs is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles. This has always been a favorite principle with me; and it was not with my approbation that the deviation from it took place in Congress, when they appointed chaplains, to be paid from the National Treasury."
Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.
When questioned by an acquaintance as to why he was attending Chapel even though he didn't ascribe to the Church, Jefferson replied, "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." John Adams was a Unitarian, which Trinitarians abhorred as heresy. Thomas Jefferson was actually a deist who detested organized religion and who made his own version of the New Testament by eliminating the miracles. Jefferson and James Madison (nominally Episcopalian), were the architects of the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom. John Quincy Adams was another Unitarian. All attended Church publically.
But there is a difference between respecting majority beliefs and manipulating and pandering to the bigotry, prejudice and millennial fantasies of Christian extremists. Though in public the Founding Fathers identified themselves as Christians, they never hid that they had honest misgivings when it came to theological doctrine. Religion in general came very low on the list of their concerns and priorities--always excepting, that is, their determination to keep the new nation free from bondage to its rule.
Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law an oligarchy, the rule of few over many.
The Quote - "To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions [is] a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men and not more so. They have with others the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps. Their maxim is boni judicis est ampliare jurisdictionem [good justice is broad jurisdiction], and their power the more dangerous as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves." Hence the SEPARATION OF POWERS i.e. Checks and Balances, which your president is trying to corrupt.
The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."
I wasn't aware that Americans had "rulers". I thought that the government existed only by the consent of the governed. Silly me. But as for Justice Jay, the same letter that contains this quote also opines that "It is to be regretted, but so I believe the fact to be." So while he believes that Americans should have Christian rulers, he also sees it as regrettable. Interesting. (note - a bit of liscense used here but he won't check it anyway...)
How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional? It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the other 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!
In 1786, Jefferson rejoiced that there was finally "freedom for the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammeden, the Hindu and infidel of every denomination"--note his concern for the sensibilities of the "infidel", unusual even today. In The Federalist, a group of 85 essays, God is only mentioned twice. In the Declaration of Independence, He gets mentioned twice, neither of which explicitly name him as the Father of Christ. The "In God We Trust" on money did not appear until the Civil War, and "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy hysteria in 1954.
In regard to your "86%" who "believe in God" you seem to think that they are all Christian. God is a pan-religious word. Hindus believe in God (one of many). Wiccans believe in God (and a Goddess). Muslims believe in God. Heck, even Satanists believe in God. Today, large numbers of American adults are disaffiliating themselves not only from Christianity but from other organized religions also. This process has also been observed in countries like the U.K., other European countries, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. But, until recently, affiliation with Christianity had been at a high level -- about 87% --and stable in the U.S. Polling data from a 2001 ARIS study indicates that Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year. If this trend continues then by about the year 2042, non-Christians will outnumber the Christians in the U.S.
At that time will it be appropriate for us to tell you to sit down, shut up, and force you to publicly acknowledge our gods?
As for you telling me and other minorities to "sit down and SHUT UP!"....This sentiment is antithetical to what America is supposed to be, a place where my religion, your religion, and someone else's religion are equal under the law. Were the majority to always have precedent, then indeed we would be a pure Democracy. Which we are not, as you know we are a REPUBLIC. By having Constitutional checks and balances the rights of the minority, be it religious minority, racial minority or gender minority, are protected from the tyranny of the majority. By trying to suppress our voice and civic participation through intimidation and insult, you debase the concepts of "freedom", "equality" , and "tolerance". You should be ashamed of yourself. Isn't it enough that you and your ilk have 87% of the pie? Do you really feel so insecure in your faith that you must force it into the consciousness of ALL people? Wouldn't it be far better to obey your own holy book and let Caesars due and Gods due remain separate? Or how about Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."
If even the Bible says to keep your worship in your house, who are you to try and force it onto the street corners?