I sent a co-worker the diary titled:
It's time that this Republican 'experiment' came to an end
His reponse was:
So, what is the Democratic agenda? Pointing fingers in hind sight seems to be a gift we all have. The politics of hate don't really move me. All I hear from the Democrats is the mean spirited trumped up spin stuff. They might have some other coherent message, but it is not getting through to me. Mostly I just hear the how horrible the Republicans are. I don't really think that, because you can complain really loudly or able to assassinate someone's character that you are fit for office.
Unfortunately I think the busted budget is just the fact of life in this stage of our nations history. Which ever party gets in has to spend to retain office. We need a 3rd party to rise to prominence to take on this issue with any sort of integrity.
Of course the US Taxpayers Party has made the most sense to me in the past, but their strategy is too narrow.
From my God centered world view, we(the people of the USA) get who we deserve.
My response to him below:
"So, what is the Democratic agenda?"
Pick a topic?
Environment:
Republicans: lower the standards for pollution, reverse the roadless rule, sell off National Parks, don't ask for the BILLIONS owed by the oil/natural gas/mining companies that they owe due to working in public lands
Democrats: Fund the National Parks properly so they can be properly maintained and shared for future generations, strengthen the EPA and give, collect all the funds due to the government. Enforce the Clean Air act, not weaken it.
Health:
Republicans: Weaken the FDA (spinach anyone?), break the US up into regions to not allow the government to use its purchase power when buying medicine, allow 46.5 million folks to NOT have health care (nearly 1/5 of our population), Allow higher concentrations of chemicals to get into our environments (higher mercury levels, higher lead, more airborne pollutants).
Democrats; Strengthen the FDA so we don't allow the diseases we currently get via food into our food chain (ie hire more inspectors/enforce fines). Develop a healthcare plan that covers all Americans (isn't life important?). Clean up the environment and strengthen the enforcement.
Defense:
Republicans; Stay the course. Keep the no-bid contracts in place. Don't equipment the folks in the field with what they need. The DOD won't let the troops get the proper body armor nor require the one small company which has the NO-BID contract for HUMMER armor to allow other companies to build the armor.
Democrats: Actually have plan to get out of something before going in. Allow oversight on government contracts. Allow the troops to get the equipment they need.
Energy:
Republicans: Oil and more oil. Drill the heck out of Alaska and the local state coastlines. Convince Canada to strip mine its land so we can get the oil from the oil sands. Drop incentives for conservation.
Democrats: Get off of oil as much as possible. Develop alternative energy resources. Encourage conservation. Have a united goal of getting the US off of the oil teat from other countries.
Human Rights:
Republicans: Allow torture. Ignore the Geneva Convention. INCREASE business where human rights are routinely violated. Drop the Constitution.
Democrats: Don't allow torture. Keep the Geneva Convention in place. Take our business dollars elsewhere when human rights are violated. Set the example for the world on how people are supposed to be treated.
Budget and Fiscal Responsibility:
Republicans: Spend and spend. Cheney even said "Deficits don't matter.". The Republicans are doing their best to break this country so there can be NO social programs. The US would be forced to sell off its National Parks, drop any and all Medicare/Medicaid programs. Drop the space program. Drop public education and social security. Republicans want EVERYTHING to be privatized.
Democrats: Did the boon years of the Clinton administration not help?
source and details (people who are much more knowledgeable on the subject)
http://www.dailykos.com/...
http://www.dailykos.com/...
http://www.dailykos.com/...
Veterans support? Education? Shall I continue? There are many, many more examples out there. Your argument is one that I hear from a lot of Republicans about a lack of Democratic Agenda. The issue is Republicans use power and money to force their issue on the rest of the Republicans. They will NEVER over turn Roe-V-Wade for that is their cash cow. With one-issue voters the Republicans in power can get away with anything. The Democrats try to solve an issue by actually getting the people who will be affected involved. There is a heck of a lot more discussion by Democrats than Republicans and that gives the illusion of no agenda.
And Talent is anything but pro-life.
Talent rose and said, "If our guys want to poke somebody in the chest to get the name of a bomb maker so that they can save the lives of Americans, I'm for it. And, if the Department of Defense wants to investigate me for that, and ... call me inhumane, fine." (Talent's knee-jerk support of the administration regarding torture was widely reported at the time and is included in a priceless recent study by Alfred W. McCoy, A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror.)
It's quaint, the senator from Missouri equating torture with poking somebody in the chest. It's not an apt metaphor for what actually happened at Abu Ghraib, where prisoners were stripped naked, hooded, doused with cold water, chained standing up for days on end, deprived of sleep, dragged nude across the floor eye-level with guard dogs and forced to masturbate on camera.
Source http://www.stlamerican.com/...
I am not sure where he stands on anything since he has flip-flopped on Stem Cell research now and Alternative energy earlier.
And don't get me started on Jack Abramoff, Tom Delay, Bob Ney, and now Mark Foley.
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I just thought I would share it with y'all
Update [2006-10-9 17:40:48 by eAddict]:
His reply:
I don't think the Democrats(or Republicans) could have saved our spinach, or kept Abu Graib from happening, or kept us out of Iraq, or fixed the public education problem, or control the economy, or supressed our appetite for gasoline.... I don't think the Republicans are that all seeing and powerful. I just don't buy that Republicans are out to torture people, yes it happened on their watch, yes they say stupid things (so do Democrats), yes they did some dumb stuff that will have to be fixed. I think the Democrats would have had all those issues, if they had been in power as well.
But until, the Democrats can articulated some vision of future that doesn't start with slamming the current people in power, I'm just not going to listen. It doesn't matter what party you are from, if you start by attacking the other party or the person, I'm going to tune out. My clicker is going to get a real work out.
Of course at this political season both parties are just spewing ugliness. Who has coherent convictions and is willing to articulate them with integrity and character and let the voters choose?
I think he only hears what he wants to hear. Makes it easier to be a non-thinker. I am going to figure out what to say in my last reply.
Friendly suggestions welcome...
Update [2006-10-10 10:17:30 by eAddict]:
My reply to his reply... I think the discussion will end now.
I don't think the Democrats(or Republicans) could have saved our spinach, or kept Abu Graib from happening, or kept us out of Iraq, or fixed the public education problem, or control the economy, or suppressed our appetite for gasoline....
I am sorry you feel that way. There is a lot of proof to the contrary if you just read/look. There are a lot of good Democratic ideas that would fix the messes the current party in control has gotten us into.
I don't think the Republicans are that all seeing and powerful.
I never said that. BUT they do have control of ALL the branches of government which does make for 'powerful'. Unfortunately they have not used their power for good. Heck, right now the Republican Speaker of the House is using his power:
Hastert says everyone should rest easy, because the Ethics Committee -- the same committee he revamped to ensure that it got back under control (his control) -- has launched an investigation into the Foley scandal. Oh, by the way, USA Today points out that Hastert's political action committee has contributed to Hastings and the other Republican on the subcommittee, Rep. Judy Biggert of Illinois. (source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-weissman/remember-joel-hefley-the_b_31305.html)
in other words the members of the House Ethics Committee are going to investigate their own House starting with the guy who hired them for the job? How is this not abusing power?
I just don't buy that Republicans are out to torture people,
That isn't the point. The point is the idea of torture should have NEVER come up. The people of the US are supposed to be better than that. The Republican Administration thinks otherwise. The President says he can torture, he can ship people to other countries where torture is OK and the Republican controlled Senate and House agreed!
yes it happened on their watch,
Are you going to hold them accountable? On the Democratic side there is already a move to replace the few Democrats who went along with this loony idea.
yes they say stupid things (so do Democrats),
Both sides do. But the Democrats can't get a word in since the Republicans control both houses and therefore the processes.
yes they did some dumb stuff that will have to be fixed.
So vote for a change. Show your displeasure. The 'dumb stuff' should not have happened in the first place. It will take YEARS to undo what this administration and Republican controlled government has done.
I think the Democrats would have had all those issues, if they had been in power as well.
I disagree and if that is your only reason for keeping the things the way they are then I don't think we have anything more to discuss. You seem happy with the status quo and call torture, loss of civil rights, increased world terror, worse economy, loss of healthcare for millions, and more just 'dumb' stuff while I see them as MAJOR problems that need to be fixed before we have another Iraq (Iran anyone?) or another Katrina or another food issue or another Foley/Delay/Abarmoff situation or... the list goes on.
But until, the Democrats can articulated some vision of future that doesn't start with slamming the current people in power, I'm just not going to listen.
I gave you what you wanted when you asked for agenda. If you can't call incompetence for what it is then I again don't see what we have to discuss. The people in power are doing a HORRIBLE job. I didn't attack the person I am attacking the behavior. You got a taste of the Democratic agenda solutions and if you can't see that they aren't an attack on a PERSON but a policy then we again have nothing more to discuss. When your kids doing something wrong do you call them on it? Are you attacking them? If they kept exhibiting the behavior would you just accept it or would you step up your methods to correct it?
It doesn't matter what party you are from, if you start by attacking the other party or the person, I'm going to tune out. My clicker is going to get a real work out.
I'd like to see what you mean by that from any of the earlier e-mails I sent. I admit in hindsight I did use some superlatives.
Of course at this political season both parties are just spewing ugliness. Who has coherent convictions and is willing to articulate them with integrity and character and let the voters choose?
How about looking at their record of what they voted on and what they said? I can send you entire voting records of anyone in Congress if you wish. Do a bit of research on your own instead of relying on sound bytes. According to the Post Dispatch both are running relative clean ads right now (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/emaf.nsf/Popup?ReadForm&db=stltoday%5Cnews%5Cstories.nsf&d
ocid=A7E731FA3105FFD986257201004623B4)
I really hope you dig into records and watch the Debates.