Keeping up my steady drumbeat of meta...if you're not interested in reading the diary, please take the poll anyway, as I'd like to get a sense of where the community is on this issue. And you might want to read the last paragraph.
Yesterday, a commenter for whom I have great respect, but with whom I disagree mightily on the duty of TU's at Daily Kos, wrote this comment:
When someone is clearly attempting to use this site for purposes other than those which its owner has said are acceptable, I am absolutely going to mock and/or attack that. When someone makes a completely off-the-wall claim, of course I'm going to mock and/or attack that. When someone tries to rewrite history, you're goddamn good and right I'm going to mock and/or attack that.
Mockery is a very effective weapon, particularly in an online setting where other common tactics don't work as well. Shaming is another good one. ...
When pressed, this commenter explained further:
I don't have to suspect anyone of criminal (or even bad) intent to shame them for getting basic facts incredibly wrong. And neither would I desist from shaming them for that kind of gaffe even if I did suspect they might have ulterior motives. Moreover, in a world where people are represented only by pixelated words on a flickering screen, shame and mockery are often the only tools (to say nothing of the most effective ones) we have in the locker. I can't reach through the internet tubes to smack someone upside the head or wrench the keyboard out of their hands. But I can mock what they produce at that keyboard, out of a hope that maybe they won't make the same mistake again--and that other people who haven't yet made that particular mistake, seeing how it is treated when it is made, won't be inclined to follow in his footsteps. It's why we troll-rate "First!" posts here. Sure, there's nothing inherently wrong with them, and plenty of places allow them. But this community has decided that they aren't allowable here, and so they're troll-rated on sight. Frequently by way more TUs than are strictly necessary to keep the comment hidden. As you ought to know from your study of history, laws are often as much prescriptive (intended to prevent certain kinds of behavior, even if it isn't routinely or regularly occurring) as they are descriptive of the concerns and actual events taking place in a given society.
I'm not going to identify the commenter, because it's not my intent to attack him; besides, I think he's a great guy (though he's probably getting REALLY tired of my meta diaries). But I wanted to highlight these comments because I think they demonstrate with true candor an opinion that is held by a whole group of people here at Daily Kos. There is a whole group of people here who truly think that shaming and mocking people is an effective and necessary weapon in the TU's arsenal.
Not long ago, BarbinMD wrote a truly excellent meta diary in which she addressed the proper role of TUs regarding trolls. I have never agreed so much in spirit with an Admin-authored meta diary as I did with this one, even though I disagreed on many of the particulars. I thought Barb struck the perfect balance between enforcement and respect, all the while advising people to keep their eye on the ball of what this site is really about -- ending Republican dominance of Washington.
I'll quote from Barb's diary at length:
Accusing Someone of Being a Troll Hunter: Community moderation is what helps to keep this site humming along. When someone points out that someone is breaking a rule, they are doing their part to make this site a better place. As has been pointed out many times, the admins can't be in every diary and comment thread 24/7, so it's up to the community to do their part. So when someone points out that a diary or comment breaks a rule and if they quote the FAQ to make their case, accusing them of being a troll hunter or any number of insults about being power mad are completely out of line, particularly if the comment isn't directed at them. There's a huge level of hypocrisy when someone says, "You don't speak for this site," when they themselves are speaking for someone else. Sometimes "it's not my fight" are words to live by. Which brings us to...
Community Moderation: As I said above, community moderation is incredibly important on a site this size. But it's not supposed to be a fulltime job. If you see an obvious rule violation that can't be changed, as in a comment that can't be edited, point it out and move on. If it's a diary violation along the lines of copyright violations, profanity in the title, etc., ask them to edit and if they don't, notify an admin and move on. But please, don't get into a long argument over why you're right and they're wrong. Because let's face it, insisting that your judgement and/or interpretation of the rules is the correct one just invites arguments. People can see and read the same thing as you and come to an entirely different conclusion.
According to Barb (extrapolating from the quoted passage), the tools in a TU's arsenal are as follows:
- Troll-rating a comment (obviously
- Asking a diarist to edit an inappropriate diary title or content
- Pointing out that someone is breaking a rule, and quoting (or not)from the relevant portion of the FAQ
- Reporting a comment or diary to an Admin
That's it. Nothing in there about shaming and mockery. In fact, the stuff about "moving on" seems to me to pretty clearly rule out such tactics as appropriate, because if nothing else, shaming and mockery take a whole lot of time that could better be used for other things, like beating Republicans.
I know Barb disagrees with my characterization of troll-hunting actions here, and that's fine. But I'd be willing to bet that she also disagrees with the sentiment that, as TU's, "shame and mockery are often the only tools (to say nothing of the most effective ones) we have in the locker."
Speaking only for myself, I can say that I find such tactics immature and abhorrent. More importantly, I think that the use of such tactics creates an atmosphere here that is unconducive to serious activism -- where people need to know they can be forceful without fear of retribution from their peers. That is why I continue to beat this dead horse day after day, when I'm sure many people (not least myself!) would love to see me tackle more important issues. That is why I think it is absolutely imperative that everyone in this community who agrees that shaming and mockery are inappropriate should call it out every single time it is used here.
However -- it's come to my attention that I may in fact be wasting everybody's time with these meta diaries. For that reason, no matter what you think of that statement, please take the poll below. If "Yes" wins the poll, then I will simply stop diarying on this subject. It's that simple -- I'll just be quiet and go about my business like every other member of this community. On the other hand, if "No" wins the poll, then I will continue beating this drum until some meaningful change occurs in the composition of this community.