That is something you'll never read in a torture diary. That is ironic given that we hold ourselves out to be about notions such as "people-power" and "reality-based".
Yet when it comes to the issue..no,that's incorrect..when it comes to what should be done about this issue, we could care less about "the people" and what they think especially if it is not what we agree with or want to hear.
Is this mere oversight, or something much more profoundly challenging?
Let's take a look:
For months now the demand for investigating and prosecuting BushCo for torture and war crimes has been a rallying cry for a noticeable amount of kossacks. Also people whose politics align to the left, and liberal elites such as those with opinion shows on cable tv and radio, those who own and run successful political and legal blogs as well as elites who write in popular journals and are in prominent positions to influence opinion and debate on issues also have seized upon the issue.
Here at DK, there is no shortage of diaries about torture, the vast majority(95%+)all in favor of some punitive course of action to address what has taken place. Specifically, the action most desired is the investigation and prosecution of BushCo and all those who were responsible for the use of torture and alleged deaths of terror suspects.
(I say "alleged" because it's murder, and because there has not been an adjudication of that allegation)
We have seen the rec'd diaries. We know the passion behind the issue. Most daily readers have likely memorized all of the reasons given for why there absolutely must be investigations and prosecutions of those we all agree are likely to have committed criminal acts.
The demands for investigation and prosecution are both legal and moral at the same time. Concern for the rule of law, Due Process, and deterring future abusive acts form an entirely rational foundation for those who would burn with the desire to see those they feel are guilty punished for their transgressions.
Let me say that I agree that acts of torture were committed. I believe those acts are in contravention of well establish law. I also believe that there would be some benefit attained to the country's reputation internationally if those who committed these acts were seen as facing consequences for their actions.
I agree that some type of bipartisan investigation should take place.
In a perfect world, I could also agree with prosecutions, but we do not live in a perfect world.
I believe the United States has a long history of teaching, condoning, funding, and committing torture both internationally and domestically. From suspects who continue to die while in local and state police custody(for example, here) to those alleged to have died while in the custody of military, intelligence, and foreign allies.
The starting point for prosecution advocates therefore begins with Bush 43 and works inward. For me, if we are really to uphold all the wonderful principles we claim to care so deeply about, BushCo is the endpoint, not the beginning. The beginning must start from the founding of the first colony and continue on through the founding of the nation. It must include events domestic and all foreign conflicts.
Any investigation that doesn't include a historical perspective is a mere partisan exercise. We must understand that the use of torture and abuse are tactical and go hand in hand with the use of power. If we base reduce torture and abuse to mere manifestations of BushCo evil rather than locate their use as a historical tool then this becomes a partisan exercise. There has been some limited historical work already such as in the LA Times, and here , and here .
I think this is why we should listen to the American people. Interesting enough, they may look at the issue or torture and abuse in a historical perspective already and have come to a different conclusion as to whether or not further action is warranted.
Polls taken on the issue of torture seem to show a conflicted, confused response by those polled. On one hand, majorities in almost every poll believe torture is wrong. Yet large pluralities believe torture is useful in some instances such as in dealing with terrorists as we see here, and here,here, and here , and also here and here.
There is also evidence that this is not a recent phenomenon as we can see from data such as from here , here, or confined to just the United States or undeveloped countries as sited in this UN Press Conference.
We need to listen to them when they tell us that at best, slim majorities either want or do not want investigations as we see here, here , and our own trusted Daily Kos/Research 2000 Poll data shows clearly that the call for investigation is mostly overwhelmingly partisan, and that there is even less of a call for criminal pursuit of the matter.
If we are a reality-based community, he cannot afford to keep ignoring facts that run counter to the preferred narrative.
We also cannot afford to be reductionist is this once popular snark.
The question is not about legislative agendas,but ignoring the will of the people. It may be frustrating, it may very well be a sad commentary on the mindset of our fellow citizens, but it is where the place they are at as it stands now.
So we see that so far there has not been much debate on the issue of torture and abuse and what action if any should follow. One side has dominated the issue so far. What discussion of the issue so far has been very limited, rarely branching out beyond the transgressions of BushCo and never dealing with the historical and sociological dimensions of torture, abuse, and power thus undercutting the very principles claimed to be the basis for taking action in the first place.
Finally, there has been a disturbing, and I believe counterproductive, tendency to forget and ignore what we are here for. Our give you kos:
It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory.
After all of the information that has come to light, whether it is pictures, memos, or the words of eyewitnesses, the country has not been moved away from it's historical position on torture and abuse.
Can we ignore the perspective of the electorate on this issue and still accomplish our goal? Is it worth the risk to push this issue and risk any unintended negative impact on other issues? I think the answer in both instances is "no".
Listen to the American people!
This diary was great snark. It deals with the idea that the pursuit of investigation and prosecutions will have no effect on our legislative agenda. This is something no one will really know either way until investigations get under way in earnest.
Until that time, all we have is the word of those who are totally invested in this issue and want it pursued "til the last dog dies".
Unfortunately it really isn't just about the legislative agenda vs. the rule of law. No, this is, if the polls are correct, about whether we are going to