[This is the third (one here and two here) in a series of conversations I have posted here in Kos reporting on political conversations I happen to have with Right Wingers or Conservatives and what not. I hope you find it or the previous intriguing and informative.]
Each of the last four years my wife and her sister like to celebrate October by gathering together with invited friends to the family's mountain vacation home. This year we had the most enlightening and informative extended political conversation with a Tea Party neighbor(TPN), a Mainstream conservative Republican (MSR). along with a moderate Independent (CFW), liberal Independent (CF) with our moderate Republican in-law (Blaw) pitted against us liberals following the “Shutdown and Debt Ceiling Hostage Brinksmanship”. I found that there is both hope for the future—But there is going to be a terrible political fight going forward.
The conservations took place last Friday evening at our vacation home during a grand, crisp evening. The setting provides us a lost taste of a once affluent-middle class dream, wherest we once came from. Each October actually signals us taking over as temporary custodians of my mother-in-law's cherished, summer home where she has enjoyed practically every summer since her 1st grade. Originally, the home was just a modest summer season cabin, originally as a retreat by wife's grandfather, who was a doctor and believed that it would provide safety from the poliovirus during those `30's scorching summer months then prevalent near Wichita KS. At the time it was thought that polio was transmitted from warm, stagnant summer waters, so the thinking was to send his wife and small children to a cool mountain hamlet above Colorado Springs. They were somewhat correct in that polio is primarily transmitted from a fecal-oral route ((intestinal source) where probably some of the stricken got it from raw sewage in our waterways, but during epidemics, it also is transmitted oral-oral (AKA person-to-person). Anyway the old cabin has since transitioned into a modern 1980's year round vacation home, triple the size that we enjoy throughout the year.
This year we were graced with our vacation home neighbor, our brother-in-law's owner/executive/boss where they were finishing a local business trip, and a couple who I consider one of my best friends going back to my collegiate days. The weekend included a dinner party and traditional howling full moon rising campfire. The dinner party conversation did not set out to be political, in fact the girls desired it not and I tried to accommodate my wife's dyer wishes, but alas, it was she who brought me in as the discussions began to escalate. I will say there was no yelling, or name calling. In the end the Tea Partyer was isolated and yet remained unmoved.
Let me break down the assemblage: Our neighbor (TPN) who is around 40 male, father of a single child out of wed lock who lives with her mother, non college educated, owner of a small landscape business, volunteer firefighter, he lives in his family trust vacation home which doubles as his business HQ. He the only child of a rather wealthy family from Kansas City. He is truly a nice guy and a wonderful neighbor where we share the private driveway (road) to our respective houses. But he is an unabashed and unapologetic Tea Party Republican, actually more Libertarian.
My brother-in-law's owner-boss (MSR) is in his upper 50's. He is not married, (not married, though lives with a woman), and told us his two children live with their mother in another state. He is the son of the founder of a small tech firm that is now on the cusp of making some big headway in mass digitizing paper records. He and my sister-in-law's family live in the Denver suburbs. He too is very nice, actually quite respectful, but is focused on finally creating success/wealth for their company.
My friends are in their mid-fifties, hand his wife (CFW) married for 25 years, don't have children because of medical reasons. She is a medical provider administrator-manager, previously she was a practicing cardiac-nurse. My long-time friend (CF) is the manager of maintenance and grounds at a very high-end apartment/condo complex in the Denver burbs. Previously he managed with a minority stake in small dog grooming and kennel business that went belly up after being sold to a bigger outfit.
My sister-in-law (SIS) who is just over fifty, divorced and now remarried, mother of two adult boys. She was in retail store management business but now works for medical insurance company as phone bank person fielding applications for the ACA She also sells for AFLAC. Her husband (Blaw) was a former Post Office sales executive who had risen through the ranks. He now is a sales manager for the aforementioned company. He is father of three adult boys. Their divorces and attempts at starting various business ventures have placed them in difficult times.
My wife and I have been married now for almost thirty years now. We have two adult children, one just graduated and the other about to. They live with us. I was once a successful serial entrepreneur in the staffing and technical consulting field, through the '90's. At one time I was my sister-in-law's biggest client when she and her former owned an independent office supply firm. We once were on the high road though it was always a roller coaster financing the whole ordeal. Finally things collapsed when I had expanded to much and computer automation and killed the beast. I now work in education, as does my wife. We live very modestly—very. We also experienced a series of medical challenges, which one of them forced us to move out here to Colorado as a major part of a remedy and treatment.
So we are all white and middle aged. Except for the Tea Party Republican, we are all college educated—something to note. Anecdotal observation: I will also note that the Tea Party neighbor and the mainstream conservative Republican do not have children living with them. It was something my wife picked up afterward, but she connected it how apologetically they expressed themselves that they have selfish ambitions which they project everyone has, or should have. So let us move to the conversation.
As we had a few glasses of wine and/or beers in our digestive system and had started enjoying our spinach salad, it was the mainstream Republican (MSR), who turned the conversation from idle introductions to politics when he said:
“The Shutdown had adversely affected our business somewhat and wanted to know if any of our worlds had been affected?”
I got one of those
marriedly nudges under the table from my loving wife (LUV) reminding me to keep my mouth shut so I just smiled and continued to enjoy the real bacon on the salad. My college friend (CF) however responded:
“Their complex had lost two tenants who were engineers hailing from some energy company that were supposed to go to work at NREL (National Renewable Energy Lab). He also noted that the complex had other tenants who worked there where he saw working out in the gym and swimming in the indoor pool far more often than the usual rich middle aged housewives.”
Chuckles....[
any affairs begin?]
Our Tea Party neighbor (TPN) cut in abruptly.
“I have a small project working under a big contractor at Fort Carson that was put on hold, but it was worth it so America could get woken up and pay attention. I am willing to pay the price whatever it takes.”
The girls were not to keen allowing their nice dinner party, (though I was the one who contributed the home-grown butternut squash and recipe of pan-seared cubes in maple syrup/butter sauce—big hit), being invaded by the outside world of politics and its drama. My sister-in-law (SIS) stated;
“Let's talk about something else, how about those Broncos?”
But her husband (Blaw) who was not sitting next to her so he could get a
marriadly nudge, he was at the head (or now the
butt-end of the table by the look in his wife's eyes), ignored her plea and said:
“How were we affected, MSR?”
(MSR) replied politely:
“It seems that not one but three of our local government clients just passed on more work and said they wanted to wait to see how this Shutdown plays out. Not sure why but we were going to hire another person to handle the work.”
The Tea Party Neighbor (TPN), [I am going to use acronyms from now on], responded.
“Sorry about your lost business and all that, but it in my mind the Shutdown was still good. Government is spending too much money at any level. I am just saying, we needed to finally make a stand.”
Gosh I thought I was in this echo chamber for real, it is the same g
od-damned talking points that the stupid RW Fox and other talking heads were repeating almost verbatim.
"We needed to take a stand.”
Then my wife (LUV) couldn't contain her own commands and said,
"TPN, you told us just this summer that your work is now more than half coming now from government projects, that most of the business and home work has dried up, due to the drought and economy, you said that didn't you?
He nodded so my wife continued;
"Let me get this straight, you mean to say you are personally, TPN, for some political belief, willing to give up half your business, for what? I think that is nuts, we once had a business—a real good one at that—though he was never around and we—well—and when it goes down it is just awful, you can lose everything, we almost did. I don't think you know what you are really talking about.”
My friend (CF) smiled and I think tried to elevate me in the eyes of our two guests who simply knew me as an older school teacher and political agitator.
“Yeah Bobby, you really had a high flyer, didn't you have over fifty employees at one time or something? Pretty good for an old stoner who was really a socialist?”
I replied as laughter had overtaken the dining room as my friend was also aptly reading that the tenor of the room was going the wrong way.
“Actually I think we reached about ninety-two at its zenith. Yeah I really had a tiger by the tail back then....Then the tiger turned and ate me.”
More levity returned to the table, but in retrospect where my nature of bestoying infinite biting sarcasm during a teaching moment I couldn't let the moment go so I continued.
“Yeah it is ironic that our company back in the `90's, we would have been subject to the employee mandate in ACA, though we were providing health benefits when the firm had less than ten employees. At least our firm was set up where revenues was directly related to number of employees, less employees less revenues, more employees, more revenues and our profit margin was also tied to how much expertise our employees had, more expertise meant higher rates. So to get good employees we needed to provide benefits more competitive than competitors. But it was a different time and place.”
I recalled the look on (MSR's) face as one of acquired respect. He then asked,
“What kind of services did you sell? How did you finance it? How fast did you go from ten to 92?"
My sister-in-law (SIS) seemed to throw a softball compliment as I was taking a bite from an appreciated pork chop, something we hadn't enjoyed for a long time, because we just don't eat meat much, because of cost, health concerns and essentially our children are vegetarians by choice.
“At one time when we had the store they were the 500 lb gorilla of a client for us, we got half our business from them and when they went down and sold we also lost our office supply part of the business. Of course Office Depot had a lot to do with that also.”[My SIS kept the art and marketing supply part of the business until they sold it to a firm that hired them.] But let us talk about something else?"
I continued though, ignoring her plea.
“I find it interesting that we all have something in common here, we all have had or have a small business. I think we all know how difficult it is to gain clients, keep the light on, grow the business and even hire and keep good employees. To answer (MSR's) question our firm provided clinical trials statistical programming and support in data management mostly for Big Pharma and the Medical Device industry. I actually got started with just two employees and grew to six the first year, ten the second, thirty the third, sixty the fourth, seventy-five, then ninety, then held steady around sixty to seventy until technology changed everything by 96 and 97 and we were done. As for financing, we were self financed except for revolving bank loans financing receivables to make payroll. We could never really cash out anytime.”
My wife then affectionately put her hand on my hand.
“But I want to go back to (TPN) to try to understand something. Before we had the clinical company I was a headhunter and in the `80's and once took a trip to an old historical industrial behemoth of a firm, International Harvester. The trip took me to the Quad Cities on the banks of the Mississippi where IH was closing down its FARMALL plant, once the largest manufacturing operation under a roof in the U.S. and IH was getting out of the farm tractor and implement business. Now the relevancy of this old story was that on this recruiting mission where I will always recall, sitting at this bar in some old Holiday Inn, you know the caricature, it was used in the movie Blues Brothers, anyway, there were about as many people in the bar as in the movie. I got into this conversation with the bartender where I told him why I was there. He then told me the most interesting story that I never was able to understand.
He told me he once worked at FARMALL, had a great job, made over $25 bucks an hour, as a machine operator, but was glad they went on strike and then didn't settle, closing the plant. That they needed to say something. That they were tired of taking concessions after concessions. That they were never appreciated by management. That management couldn't win. They wanted to break the union and they wanted change all the work rules and automate the plant getting rid of the jobs.
I then asked the forty something bartender how much was he making here? He was the bar manager and making about ten bucks an hour plus tips. How many tips do you get on a Thursday night when there are only six people in the bar, I asked?
I don't get it, I recall saying. He replied, 'we had to make stand'. No personal disrespect (TPN), you know how much we love you and all that you do for our parents and what they do for you as good neighbors do, but how is your thoughts about the Shutdown and losing possibly half your business any different than that union guy back in the Quad Cities? I really want to understand this?”
TPR's reply was more revealing than I expected.
“I can understand how that union guy felt in a way. He felt that they were doing all the work, and seeing all the money going to everyone else. This Obooboecare, it is merely just a give-a-way, so the DEEMMOcrats can buy more votes, place people permanently indebted to the government to the DEEMOcrats, like Medicaid or even Social Security. It is the same for unemployment, you know as a small businessman I pay double for all these things. Those people, you know the coloreds, they are getting everything for nothing and we are paying for it and then they get to vote. We got to make a stand and the time was finally someone got up and said we got to stop them, stop him. Our cause can't be stopped either, we will win you over I promise you, the socialist.”
Naturally there was silence in the room. I don't think any of us have been in impolite company for a long while, I can say the last time was sometime in the '80's in the company of my late eighties grandfathers, who then admonished by my mother or aunt. Not that neither might have some racial prejudices they just had learned not to express them.
My college friend's wife (CFW) cut in and said:
“I think we really need to lower the blood pressure here and enjoy the meal.”
Where the conversation did go on about things like how the flash flooding had affected MSR's mother-in-law's home in Manitou Springs how the former hippie-cultured town was handling legalization of marijuana.
So after cleaning up we headed outside to have a campfire in our outdoor fire place. TPN decided not to join us and walked home next door, but he was definitely the focus of our conversation in the cool night as the moon rose over the Rockies. MSR started it off.
“I have a few acquaintances like (TPN), they are not rationally looking at politics and like that union guy in your story they are more than willing to cut off the noise of everyone's face to spite our faces. It's a real problem."
My college friend (CF) said
“He has workmates who harbor similar feelings. We don't talk about it anymore around me, but they go off and listen to Rush or some other KOA radio show on their headphones, not music but just Right Wing talk radio, they get all worked up. It seems to be all about something about race or women when you get down to it.”
My brother-in-law (Blaw) then piped in.
“You all know I am a registered Republican, been even an elected official, but more of a moderate and have not liked how my Party has gone for at least a dozen maybe twenty years. Really I am now an Independent but like staying registered to keep knowing what my party is doing. But this whole thing in DC there is no statemanship. But now I am understanding why. Let me go in and get something I will be back.”
My college friend's wife (CFW) then said,
“I was a Republican until they tried to impeach Clinton over extra-marital sex, really. Been an Independent as well. I think they, those Tea Partyer's have pitted everyone against them and the problem is that they have to be voted out which will hurt the two-party system in the short-term."
Then (Blaw) returned with an article from “
The Week” it was about Justice Scalia profiled in the
New York Magazine. He read it using the campfire light.
"What’s your media diet? Where do you get your news?
Well, we get newspapers in the morning...I usually skim them. We just get The Wall Street Journal and the Washington Times. We used to get the Washington Post, but it just … went too far for me. I couldn’t handle it anymore.
What tipped you over the edge?
It was the treatment of almost any conservative issue. It was slanted and often nasty. And, you know, why should I get upset every morning? I don’t think I’m the only one. I think they lost subscriptions partly because they became so shrilly, shrilly liberal.
So no New York Times, either?
No New York Times, no Post.
And do you look at anything online?
I get most of my news, probably, driving back and forth to work, on the radio.
Not NPR?
Sometimes NPR. But not usually.
Talk guys?
Talk guys, usually.
Do you have a favorite?
You know who my favorite is? My good friend Bill Bennett. He’s off the air by the time I’m driving in, but I listen to him sometimes when I’m shaving. He has a wonderful talk show. It’s very thoughtful. He has good callers. I think they keep off stupid people.
That’s what producers get paid for.
That’s what’s wrong with those talk shows
.
(Blaw) then made his point.
“If a Supreme Court Justice is only getting his news and information from two newspapers and Right Wing talk radio how is he objective and balanced? If he is that way than we have to assume that many in Washington, the Congress is split that way as well?"
I then piped in and said
“this is so apropos”
[the humor and alcohol started coming in as we were all going to sleep over so we didn't care about another beer or glass of wine] My (CF) said,
“Say apropos three times very fast....”
Many laughs
I continued,
“I had just read a story on Kos,
[more interruptions from my (Blaw) saying
"that this was the example of balanced, objective sourcing”]
link to articlehttp://www.salon.com/...
“Now here me out. There was this post about a documentary movie producer who was doing a study, about how her father was taken over by Right Wing Radio. That the basic premise was her father a former life long moderate Democrat, a Catholic and all that, did not demonstrate hate or bigotry or right wing stuff until he started listening to talk radio in the car when he got a longer commute. That these psychological studies indicate
[again my (CF) interrupts asking everyone else to say
psychological studies indicate three times]
indicate that because talk radio is one person talking, no dialogue, no challenge to any position or fact, a one way conversation, and most often is listened to by those alone in a car, [my (CF) friend adds, “or working alone with headphones”], and it is messages constantly given over and over again, illiciting anger, resentment and coveting others, a barrage of slander, slurs and hyperbole, that
[my (Blaw) hits it ]
“BRAINWASHING!”
Exactly! Brainwashing.”
My (Blaw) then added more.
“This is what happened to my mother. She was conservative, but then after retirement she started listening to talk radio at home alone. She became worse, but I refused to let her talk more in person.”
The last word on the subject then was (MSR).
“I know I am really an outsider to your little clan here and didn't want get something started when I asked about the Shutdown, I was genuine though. I am sorry if you are going to have problems with your neighbor. But the real issue is what are we as rational citizens going to do about it. (CFW) is right, if we only have one party it will not be good also.”
We joyfully placed another log on the fire, howled as the moon rose over casting moonlight shadows over the mountain terrain as we sat up high on a ridge off Pikes Peak's range.
“
I said things didn't go badly from 1932 to 1948 where the Republicans finally figured it out and got rid of their fascists who had actually schemed in overthrowing Roosevelt. The Tea Party are revolutionaries, no doubt. It is their way or the highway (actually no way), that is what revolutionaries are all about, they want to radically reorder society, no middle ground no compromise. I am sorry but it will be up to the moderates, Independents and even mainstream former Republicans to isolate them and get rid of them. In the meantime there will be disruptions, because disruptions is all they got. I have to recall our idiot Lamborn saying that the Shutdown and Debt Ceiling was the last arrow in the quiver, meaning last aggressive weapon they had and they used it, and they will use it again and again.”
My (SIS) then said,
“Let's move on, you guys brought up marijuana, would anyone have a joint, it is legal.”
Her husband (Blaw)
“Honey, stop joking around it is my employer!”
(MSR),
“What is wrong we are all over 21, I would say 50, so none of us are new to this subject.”
Then....there was more laughter and howling at the moon....