William Brangham:
You have in the past already also been very critical of the pharmaceutical companies.
I’m going to read something you said recently. You said — quote — “People are dying because of the choices of Moderna and Pfizer, their boards and shareholders.”
It is a very serious allegation. I mean, again, what are the things that they could do to speed this effort more?
Dr. Thomas Frieden:
The way it works, really, is that governments do a lot to make things possible for pharmaceutical companies that sell vaccines. They do the science. They buy the vaccines. They indemnify them against legal challenge. They educate doctors and patients. They buy the vaccines at high cost, in the case of the U.S.
And what many vaccine manufacturing companies do, but not these two, what many do is understand that they have a responsibility. And that responsibility includes technology transfer when they cannot meet global need immediately.
I think what has to happen is a combination of legal pressure, support incentives, and ensuring that they transfer technology to entities that are able to scale up production of their vaccine much faster than is currently being scaled up.
William Brangham:
I mean, the companies, in their defense, argue, we’re making vaccine as fast as we can. We didn’t decide who we sold them to. We sold them to the first buyers that came, and those were the Western nations, and that, on some level, that these criticisms are unfair.
Dr. Thomas Frieden:
Well, it is true that these companies have done a great job making a great vaccine and scaling up within their capacities.
The problem is, we can’t be held hostage to two companies and what they can do and the one-off deals they can make with other companies. In truth, both the companies and the Biden administration are doing a lot. But what’s needed — and what’s needed is not easy. It’s hard.
It means forcing the companies to do something they don’t want to do. It means threatening legal action. It means sending people who know about production to the factories. It means finding willing partners.
But you know something? The stability of the world depends on it.
William Brangham:
Dr. Tom Frieden, former head of the CDC, and now president and CEO of Resolve to Save Lives, always good to see you. Thank you.”