On Friday, October 7th, the Dr. Phil Show aired an episode having a discussion about the idea of transgender women athletes competing against cisgender women athletes. The show was totally biased against trans athletes from the first moments, and didn’t get any better as it went on. I know this all for a fact because I was there. I was called by the show’s producer, Anna O’Brien, just a day before this show was scheduled to tape because they wanted to make sure, as was explained to me, that they would have a “fair and balanced discussion of the issue,” and to give voice to trans people. What actually transpired that day, and what finally aired, is anything but what I had been led to believe would happen.
The show was conceived out of the controversy that a trans swimmer, Lia Thomas, had the audacity to actually win a competition in an NCAA Division 1 championship in March 2022. This came twelve years after the NCAA first provided scientific guidelines that trans athletes must follow before entering competition. The primary requirement is to verify that a trans person has been on hormone replacement therapy for a minimum of 12 months, and that their hormone levels fall within the “normal” range for males and females, so that there supposedly won’t be any unfair advantage. In Lia Thomas’s case, she spent 24 months on the proper hormone regime for a woman before she started competing in the women’s category.
I’ve run a trans support group called TG Rainbow for more than a dozen years here in Orange County, California. I have also been a front line activist for trans issues going back to at least 2007 when I first became a speaker for the PFLAG Speakers Bureau. That activism really heated up the following year when Prop 8, the ballot proposition to outlaw Marriage Equality, went before the voters. Because of my activism and advocacy over the years, I have often been contacted when trans issues come up in the media. An earlier example of this was when trans woman Zoey Tur was threatened by Ben Shapiro on the Dr. Drew Show back in 2015.
Out of that incident I was asked to help organize, with Ann Thomas, two shows for Dr. Drew that featured an entire audience of trans people to discuss the issue of who we are. Even though Dr. Drew is known for being extremely conservative, he gave us a huge forum to talk about the things that were important to our community, and he let us speak our minds without censorship or recriminations. Those two shows aired on August 26th and 27th, 2015, and I was extremely proud of how they turned out, and the reception we got afterward.
So this is one of the reasons I was contacted by the producer at the Dr. Phil Show. I was skeptical when Ms. O’Brien first called, but she assured me it would be a fair airing of the issues surrounding trans athletes. I should be clear that I was not being asked to be a primary guest, but was to be a featured part of the audience. This was a new thing for Dr. Phil to start engaging with audience members, and he really wanted us to interact with the guest speakers. Anna asked if I could bring others to the show as well, and I enlisted both my wife, Cherie, and a wonderful friend and ally, Anita Kanti, who is a life coach and author. We had little time to prepare since the call had come late in the afternoon of August 9th, and we had to be at the Paramount Studio lot in Los Angeles early the next morning. Anita volunteered to drive, which was a life saver for me since I had gotten very little sleep.
Once we arrived, we had to find the right door to the studio, then be screened both for which show we were there for, but also for Covid, before being allowed on set. Anita and I were both set up with microphones so that we could talk during the show. The first thing that caught my attention was that they did not put a mic on Cherie, who is always there to speak with me on trans issues. In fact, when we were seated, I had to push to even get her to sit close to me, and I sort of felt lost at not having her directly by my side.
The audience was separated into literally two opposing sides in a V-formation. I quickly figured out that we were looking across at the audience members brought in to support the anti-trans side of the issue, which I later found out was indeed the case. Once the actual show started, I could quickly tell that what was transpiring was not what I thought it would be, and by the time it was done, it was even worse than I imagined.
After the introduction of the subject by Dr. Phil, the two initial guests were also introduced: Nancy Hogshead-Makar, an Olympic champion with three golds and a silver at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics; and Layne Ingram, a trans man and basketball coach at Lansing Community College in Michigan. Unfortunately, it quickly became apparent that Dr. Phil was going to be giving short-shrift to the pro-trans side of the issue. Layne appeared on the defensive from the outset with Nancy immediately going after the idea that trans women athletes that had gone through puberty with testosterone as boys. would always have a hugely unfair physical advantage over cisgender women. (One of her favorite things was to say that men had 40 percent larger throats than women.) This highlighted the idea presented continually throughout the show by their side that when they were talking about trans women, they really were talking about men.
Layne tried to counter with actual facts, but it was hard to get anything on the table. As he repeatedly pointed out, the NCAA had already looked at the science, created their guidelines, and that Lia had gone above and beyond in making sure she was inside those requirements. Nancy repeatedly countered by saying it didn’t matter because once on testosterone, that was the final arbiter.
Dr. Phil then brought on two more guests: Riley Gaines, a swimmer who had competed with Lia Thomas; and Dr. Carol Hooven from the Harvard University Department of Evolutionary Biology (although she is apparently now on leave, possibly because of her anti-trans comments). They were both brought in on the anti-trans side of the issue, and Layne was left to his own resources with no one else to back him up or counter what was to come.
Let’s start with Riley. Basically her argument is that since Lia was once a man, that she should never have been competing in women’s sports, even though this was never a problem until Lia actually won against Riley. Then came Dr. Hooven, who brought lots of questionable “science” to back up her discrimination against trans athletes. Between these three, and backed up fully by Dr. Phil, they went on about how men have more muscle mass, how they are bigger and taller, how they have a bigger throat so they can swallow more air. Again and again they went back to this point that Lia Thomas was a man, and that basically she entered women’s sports in order to cheat. At one point the idea was broached that Lia had been purposefully holding back her strength in order to fool everyone about her male abilities, so that she could then make a come-from-behind win in the female category.
Let me be clear, trans women are women. I am a trans woman, although that rarely comes up in any conversation. Frankly, it is no one’s business that I am trans unless I want to bring it up. I am simply a women, as is Lia Thomas. People such as myself just had to go through a lot of hard work to get to where we are today and be accepted for who we have always been. As I often like to say when I talk about being trans, there was some assembly required.
So, let’s go back to the guests that Dr. Phil decided to have on his show to support his view that trans athletes should not be able to compete against cisgender athletes. All three of them have appeared on Fox News.
Here’s Riley Gaines on Tucker Carlson when she complained about having to be in the same locker room with Lia Thomas:
“That’s not something we were forewarned about, which I don’t think is right in any means, changing in a locker room with someone who has different parts.”
And how about Dr. Carol Hooven speaking on Fox and Friends: “The facts are that there are in fact two sexes. There are male and female, and those sexes are designated by the kinds of gametes we produce.”
Then there’s Nancy Hogshead-Makar speaking on Fox News Digital:
“Trans women don’t need to win every time to be able to make the ‘unfairness’ case... What Lia Thomas has shown us is that... it is not possible for a trans woman to roll back male puberty. She retains most of her strength, all of her height, bigger lungs, hands, and body proportions that favor male physiology in most sports.”
Nancy goes on to say: “If Lia's in a competition, that means a woman is not. If Lia wins, that means a woman does not. If Lia goes to the NCAAs, that means a woman does not go to the NCAAs.”
So I think it can be safely stated that all three of Dr. Phil’s guests were well know anti-trans personalities before being asked to appear on his show. There was no fair discussion of this issue from the get-go.
Throughout the first 2/3rds of the show, I kept expecting Dr. Phil to begin engaging those of us in the audience that he had requested to be part of the conversation, but nothing happened. Instead he trotted out huge charts showing the physical advantages that a man has over a woman, while talking about “science and common sense” obviously showing that trans women should not be competing against cisgender females. One thing that was mentioned was how Lia had said that some of her ability to compete derived from the fact that after transition, she had finally been happy with herself. That specifically resonated with me because I knew exactly what she was talking about. But all this was dismissed as they kept going back to the fact that at one point, years ago, Lia had testosterone in her system, so all bets were off.
More than an hour into the taping Dr. Phil finally started to ask a people in the audience if they had anything to say. A couple of trans people next to me were able to make comments, but again, everything was dismissed. I had been itching to say something for a long time, but was not called upon until even later in the show.
After coming back from a break Dr. Phil acknowledged me. I started off by saying that I knew exactly what Lia Thomas felt like when she said she was happy. I went through this exact same process when I transitioned. After decades of depression and suicidal thoughts, even when fully supported by my wife Cherie, it wasn’t until after transition that I could finally sit down with an uncluttered mind and do the one thing I had worked on for nearly 30 years: I was finally able to write my book on the X-15 rocket plane program. I had never thought it would ever see the light of day, but now it has been out there for nearly a decade, and it changed my life to be able to get it finished. It is literally my life’s work.
Another huge point I wanted to make had to do with their repeated attack on trans women as creating a disadvantage because of our increased muscle mass and strength. I knew, again from direct experience, that this was not the case. I pointed out how, before starting transition, I used to ride my bike every day for exercise and enjoyment. After leaving my condo complex, I turned left and started directly up a small hill. Within a few days of starting on testosterone blockers (spironolactone), I got on my bike and turned to go up the hill. Within just a few feet, I had to stop because I could no longer tackle the hill. I explained that my muscle mass at that stage was absolutely the same as it had been a week before, but because the testosterone was no longer working, my muscles were no longer reacting as they had. The signals weren’t getting through, and my strength was greatly diminished.
In conclusion, I made it clear that, even though I was no athlete (although I had competed in swimming when I was younger), and through personal experience, I could say that the science cited by the NCAA in their ruling allowing trans athletes to compete, was a sound one. This is also backed up by an excellent article in Scientific American that a friend brought to my attention, entitled “Trans Girls Belong on Girls Sports Teams” March 2021:
www.scientificamerican.com/...
One thing that was repeated in the discussion was how it was okay for trans women to compete, but that they must do so in their own category. Based on that, I made the statement that “As has been shown repeatedly in this country, separate but equal is not equal.”
After I finished, a couple more trans audience members were allowed to comment, then the show pretty much wrapped up. That was two months ago, on August 10, 2022. When we left the studio I was unhappy about how it had all gone, and even more so that we in the audience had not been asked to get more involved, as promised. This was especially true in that Cherie was never allowed to talk, and our wonderful friend and ally Anita, was also not given any chance to weigh in on the issues.
Anna told us she would give us plenty of warning on when the show would air so that I could let those I knew in the trans and ally community know when to tune in. As a backup, I also set my DVR to record any new shows that aired from Dr. Phil. That ended up being a good thing because the producer failed in her promise to contact me, or anyone else from our side of the argument that I am aware of. When the show came up on my DVR as airing on Friday, October 7th, I got the word out, but to this day, the producer still has yet to tell me anything. She knows she lied and mislead us all about where this show was slated to go. We were set up and they let Layne Ingram get ambushed for trying to give a positive side to this question of trans athletes to Dr. Phil.
When on the Paramount lot taping the show, the entire time it ran was approximately 90 minutes. By the time the show aired, what was left is not more than 35 minutes. Only one of the other trans audience members was given any air time in the completed episode, and what I stated was edited by close to 90 percent. None of the evidence to the contrary of their narrative about trans women being unfit to compete because of their testosterone was allowed to air. They had an agenda, and no one, and no evidence, could dissuade them from that goal. I knew when I sat in the studio that the show was one-sided, but the one that aired was beyond even what I imagined it would be. In the end it was a hit job against trans women. Not once were trans men athletes ever mentioned.
I know they accomplished their goal because when I spoke with my step mom a couple of days later, she initially told me that she was completely on the side of Dr. Phil and his anti-trans guests. This surprised me somewhat, but I then was able to take the time to explain, as I had done on the show, that what they presented was bogus science, and certainly anything but the “common sense” that Dr. Phil kept saying that it was. He even mentioned on the aired version my comment about “Separate But Equal”, but he dismissed it, and those who watched at home had no context where that came from.
Feel free to check out the episode for yourself, and come to your own conclusions. Was the trans side of the equation fully and fairly presented in your estimation? Would love to hear you comments below.
Dr. Phil S21 E20: