Update: When I first wrote this I wondered what “or worse” meant in “we came very close to either Service having to use lethal options or worse” in what the Pence Secret Service said in the recording played in the hearing. I was thinking that the agent was referring to the force the detail could use which was worse than lethal. Lethal, of course, is the most drastic level of force. Then, thanks to a commenter I realized I was taking the phrase literally. The meaning was meant to be something along the lines of “we could have been compelled to use lethal force to protect Pence and not only that, something worse could happen.”
A Secret Service tape of radio transmissions was played during the J6 hearing last night which included an agent talking about using lethal options to protect Vice President Pence. Here’s an excerpt from a description of part of J6 hearing testimony:
“The members of the VP detail at this time were starting to fear for their own lives,” an unidentified security official told the select panel investigating the Capitol riot.
“There was a lot of yelling, a lot of very personal calls over the radio, so it was disturbing. I don’t like talking about it,” he testified.
The agents protecting Pence were preparing for a potential clash with the rioters when they placed the desperate phone calls.
“There were calls to say goodbye to family members,” he continued. “For whatever the reason was on the ground, the VP detail thought that this was about to get very ugly.”
He added: “We came very close to either Service having to use lethal options or worse.” Reference
I assume that the agent was referring to the Secret Service agents and officers of the Capitol Police with the reference to either Service.
It is chilling to consider the consequences if Secret Service agents had fired on attackers to clear a path of safety for Vice President Pence.
They probably would have killed or seriously wounded some of them. Whether this would have stopped the assault and prompted the insurrectionists to turn tail and retreat or not is impossible to predict. Some might have continued the attack and we can only speculate what they would have done to the agents, even managing to get their firearms and extra ammunition, and then to Pence if they managed to get to him.
Trump and his army almost managed to effect a successful coup in an attempt to destroy our Democracy and then plunge the country into a constitution crisis which would likely lead to nation-wide violence. It could have resulted in the murder of this newly minted number one enemy, his own vice president.
Consider the what it would be like living in a country ruled by a dictator, which Trump would have become, who got his power by having his army murder the one person with the power to throw him out of office which Pence could have done in his role in convening the Cabinet to implement the 25th Amendment.
See first comment about what would happen to the vice presidency if Pence was killed. Note that Trump couldn't simply fill the vacancy.
Friday, Jul 22, 2022 · 2:50:24 PM +00:00 · HalBrown
The likely answer to my question:
Pretty obvious that what was meant was: “We may have to kill somebody, or even worse, we may get killed or lose the VP”
I can see how this is probably what the agent meant. It wasn’t obvious like it was to you to me since I was thinking literally, that is, there’s nothing worse than a lethal option. He was thinking that beyond using their weapons worse outcomes could happen. Thanks for the interpretation.
Friday, Jul 22, 2022 · 3:26:37 PM +00:00 · HalBrown
This is from The Washington Post:
The witness said he could tell the danger that Pence and Secret Service agents were in because some agents were yelling and screaming, and some sent “very personal” messages to have colleagues tell their families goodbye for them.
“It sounds like that we came very close to either, service having to use lethal options, or worse,” the official said. “At that point, I don’t know. Is the VP compromised? Is the detail? I don’t know. ... If they’re screaming and saying things like, ‘say goodbye to the family,’ like the floor needs to know this is going to a whole ’nother level soon.”
“The floor” could be a reference to the main office space of the National Security Council.