Welcome to Street Prophets Coffee Hour! Thermal on Thursdays for the warmth of a good cup of coffee or your preferred beverage, as well as the warmth of a more progressive religion and community. And who can resist alliteration? Not me!
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Please Note Disclaimer: I write about Christianity because I was raised in the Church, so it’s what I know. Furthermore, I know of several instances where people commenting about another religion have gotten it wrong, so I feel that I am not qualified to branch out. Nothing here should be taken as implying that Christianity is better than any other religion or no religion.
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Today’s Topic: A couple weeks back, there was a diary about sexual abuse in the churches, in response to which a commenter said “God is cruel”. To which I responded “I don’t believe that.” To which the same commenter responded “Why would anybody care what you believe?” Welp, “how rude”. But that’s not the point. Below are my thoughts on why everyone should care what others believe about God, as I have figured them out so far. And if you agree or disagree, please feel free to question, debate, etc. in the comments!
I don’t think our opinion directly matters to God. I don’t think we need to feel responsible for God’s feelings. She can take care of Her own reputation as She sees fit. I sometimes think of Her as Ceiling Cat because I think She is somewhat independent of and indifferent to what we think of Her, not trying to win any popularity contests.
But don’t such opinions matter to us? In the United States about two thirds identify as Christian after a high of 90% in the 1990s, www.pewresearch.org/… So even if you are atheist, agnostic, or religious non-Christian, if you live here or in parts of the world where Christianity predominates, then you are often affected by how Christians behave and think they should behave. And won’t “how we think we should behave” be affected by whether or not we think God is cruel?
I think the atheist might argue, “If I convince you that your God is cruel, then you will stop following Him, His preachers, His Bible, and do better.” That may be the case for a few people. I lived in the South, I knew a lot of Southerners in a region where narrow-minded right-wing Christianity predominates, and my friend circle mostly consisted of people who rejected the Christian God as portrayed in their churches. They were not interested in being hateful, bigoted, other-phobic, nor in continuing to associate with people who were. So I know that happens.
But I observed that a lot more people, the vast majority, want to believe in a Higher Power, think they are good people because they follow a higher power, and will even place belief in a Higher Power over self interest. They sometimes even condemn themselves for their apparent inability to follow the commandments of this perceived higher power. If they felt that God commanded them to be something they were not, they felt personal guilt, not “God (or the Bible or society) is wrong on this issue” but rather “I must be wrong on this issue”. How likely is it that the right words will completely negate their belief system?
Furthermore, studies show that many people tend to be genetically inclined toward authoritarianism and are almost looking for charismatic leaders to follow. This is true of about 30% of people worldwide. In the US, a large percentage of such people will have had a life-long history of being raised to be Christians. So I would argue that they are not going to become independent thinkers with no religion, no matter how much you disrespect them and their beliefs. I think it’s much more likely that they will dig in their heels, because you are threatening a way of life that they think they need.
So I think it is easier to say convincingly to right-wing Christians doing or believing the wrong things (such as hatred of those who are different), “That’s not what the Bible says, that’s not what Jesus would want. Look at this Bible verse, and here, and here.” In other words, “Here is the proof that God is good, kind, loving. And She wants you to be/do the same. God is not cruel.”
I used to think that it was literally miraculous that the Bible had survived and maintained prominence over 2000 years. If I, or even I and a large committee, wrote or compiled a book that I/we claim holds universal truths, I would be extremely pleased if it was widely read for 100 years. Now, though, I think that the vagueness of its prescriptions to do good mixed with its prescriptions otherwise, may be the reasons why it has survived: There is something in there for everyone. It has been open to interpretation for 2000 years.
This is problematic because we are not all following the same interpretation. But lots of Christians say that they believe in a loving God as represented by Jesus. If so much awfulness already goes on in that context; if people calling themselves Christians hate people different from themselves or abuse people who trust them; then how much worse would it be if we all thought that God was cruel??
Right now we say that everybody sins. That we all fall short of the high standards of God. That we are flawed representatives of Her love and mercy. Isn’t that a better interpretation, and thus we might try to do better going forward, than to say that God is cruel and thus we will keep imitating Him going forward?
You might respond that “Well but bad things happen to good people. Why would an all-powerful and all-loving God allow that?” And I do not have a good answer for you. I have read various attempts by theologians to answer, but they all seem kind of lame. I suspect that perhaps God, although able to direct the eventual disposition of our souls into Heaven, is not in fact all-powerful. Or is there some sort of mysterious plan where it would all make sense if we just understood? I really do not know.
But I do think that we behave a little better as humans when God, or our ideal image for ourselves, is Good and Loving, not Cruel.
The concept of a loving God also gives us hope. We know that this world is unfair, but what about the future of this world and what about the next world? MLK called this universe moral and said its arc bends toward justice. The Salvation Army blog discusses other reasons to hope in a better afterlife, including some balance in outcomes. If God were cruel, what would we be looking forward to? Some time and some place even worse than this? We cannot think that. Wouldn’t we lapse into helplessness and depression?
So at the same time that we feel we serve a loving God, a loving God also serves us. And that is why it matters whether or not we think that God is cruel.
Please feel free to discuss. I am still working out my thoughts on this. Thank you for reading!
Finally as always, we elevate our Community Cred and repost The Needs List! From Aashirs nani (with permission) on Helping Humpday (note that we have had some successes lately, yay!):
PLEASE NOTE:
When sending via PayPal, be sure to select “Send to family/friend” to avoid fees on either end. Be aware, both donor and recipient, that GFM not only charges fees, but also money received through that platform is treated as taxable income. If you are requesting help through GFM, also be aware that there can be delays in accessing the money.
COMMUNITY NEEDS LIST AS OF 6/21/23:
Fundraisers who want a diary to be or stay on the list: PLEASE kosmail requests and donations received to njm5000 by Tuesday evening to be included on the Wednesday morning updated list.
Living on the financial edge—need help? Check out the Helping Directories before your next emergency.
Housing and Living Expenses Fundraisers and Other Links
When sending via PayPal, be sure to select “Send to family/friend” to avoid fees on either end.
anotherdemocrat—has a diary up: Anyone know where I can find a 2nd job? She’s in Austin and is suddenly $24000 in debt, mainly due to an HOA assessment! From the diary: “So, $24,000 is more money than I can ask even a big community like Daily Kos to donate. I have a venmo: at Becky-Helton, Cashapp: $B3ckyHelt0n, and GoFundMe, if anyone wants to help with next month’s payments but for a big total like that, I need a 2nd job. My day job is M-F from 8-5, so it would have to be evenings & weekends.” and “Skills: writing, 20+ years of customer service work, super reliable…” Kosmail, if you can help.
BMScott posted this: From a Daily Kos Guild tweet about Christopher Reeves:
“Christopher's house burned down early in February. An insurance dispute has made it difficult to access his funds for necessary items, so we're trying to keep him and his family sheltered, fed, and clothed. PLEASE help however you can.” There is a GoFundMe that currently stands at $15,360 15,385 15,585 towards a revised goal of $20,000.
jtg—needs about $7,000 6150 5760 5460 5435 5185 4935 4500 4100 3900 3700 3290 for dental work.• GoFundMe • KoFi • PayPal• Patreon • Amazon Pet Supplies •
michelewln—needs $400 360 towards rent, utilities, meds, & groceries. PayPal is michelewilson327 at Gmail dot com.
AZnaturegrrrl—needs help rn with kitteh food and supplies. Especially needs the special Royal Canin aging loaf in sauce wet food for Yuki, plus syringes for the feeding, and puppy pads with adhesive strips. From AZ: “I have a list on Amazon or Chewy vouchers would work just as well (I think Chewy has a sale on as well):“ *Chewy gift cards to naturegirl61 at icloud dot com • amazon wish list is AZnaturegrrrl's cat list.
Thanks, as always, to the donors.
BeadLady has posted the updated Kos Katalogue 2023: Please Check — Katalogue 2023 Members. Please Kosmail her as soon as possible if you have corrections or additions.
Please note also that Chef Bobby Neary, “@nuevopioneer,” passed away January 14, 2023. We will continue to post his favourite charity to honour him — please consider a donation to the Satos, the street pets of Puerto Rico! Bobby adopted his own Sato, Missilu, as well as raised funds for PR’s Satos.
I’m in for a mickle each week toward a variety of DKos members on the Needs List. I hope you’ll join me. Always glad to see the needed amounts gradually decreasing!
If helping financially isn’t the right choice for you at this time, you can still help. Tip and rec the diary so it stays visible. Share on social media: Twitter, Facebook, whatever platform you use, to bring the attention of others outside our daily readers. And offer words of encouragement to people who are struggling. It can be scary to be struggling, and it can feel lonely. Let them know we understand and are here to help.
If you have time, please visit fundraising diaries and leave comments for their authors. Those words of encouragement are vital!
If you don’t like fundraisers, please just move along. They are a longstanding tradition at DKos — Until we vote in enough progressives to create a much stronger social safety net! (Maybe in 2024!)
And finally, please note: I am sole caregiver for my Mom, so I will likely be back and forth. If I am out, please chat amongst yourselves, bandy about your opinions, take a coffee break, post aminal photos, share food/drink and tunes, spread the word and invite your friends, etc.! I will engage in Comments as time and Mom’s needs allow. Thanks to all!