Donald Trump has repeatedly expressed his eagerness and willingness to talk with Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
President Trump said on Wednesday that he was willing and eager to be interviewed by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel investigating Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential campaign, insisting that he has done nothing wrong.
Except that, just as “cooperating in full” is the Trump term for “obstructing by every means possible,” willing and eager to talk means … unwilling to talk.
Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.
The New York Times reports that Trump’s lawyers aren’t caught up on a technical detail or a concern about some legal issue as it concerns the relationship of the executive to the special counsel. The problem is far more fundamental—they don’t believe their client can talk to Mueller without lying his fat ass off.
His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators.
Think of it as a kind of preemptive Fifth Amendment—your honor, my client can’t be trusted to say anything under oath, because everything he says is a lie.
Should Trump refuse to talk to Mueller, the penalty is … that’s hard to say. Mueller could certainly subpoena Trump, just as Bill Clinton was subpoenaed to give testimony before the grand jury by Ken Starr. But if Trump refuses to appear, or refuses to talk, it’s a fight that will immediately head to the Supreme Court for a test of just how much the Republican majority on the court is ready to give Trump a pass.
If Trump does refuse to talk, or actually lays claim to the Fifth, it would seem to be a pretty good indication of guilt—after all, it’s hard to self-incriminate without some underlying crime. But Trump’s supporters surely have a story already created to excuse Trump’s absence from the witness chair, probably one that pins the blame on both Hillary Clinton and James Comey. And there’s nothing that stops Trump from changing his “willing and eager” statements to claims that Mueller is simply another deep state operative out to trap him using … wiretaps? A FISA warrant? Fox News can carefully explain why asking Trump any question at all represents treason.
Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker and an informal adviser to Mr. Trump, echoed that advice.
“The idea of putting Trump in a room with five or six hardened, very clever lawyers, all of whom are trying to trick him and trap him, would be a very, very bad idea,” Mr. Gingrich said last month on “Fox and Friends.”
Gingrich clearly felt the same way about Bill Clinton, whose testimony he dissected to the word and the inflection.
The position of Trump’s attorneys seems to simply be: Don’t agree, and make Mueller take them to court. There’s the chance that Mueller won’t actually subpoena Trump. And if he does, there’s always the chance that Trump could win in court, and if he loses, Trump can always still refuse to talk, sending everything back to court for another round of arguments about what that means. All of which takes time.
Valuable time, in which Devin Nunes can launch at least a few more attempts to attack the FBI, Trump can continue to complain about how it’s all a witch hunt, and Fox News can continue to rail against the entire legal system. Time in which Republicans can suddenly realize they never liked law enforcement in the first place.
As far as Trump is concerned, any delay is a good delay. Except for one thing …
… a court fight could prolong the special counsel inquiry, casting a shadow over Republicans as November’s midterm elections approach or beyond into the president’s re-election campaign.
If the nation goes into November with Trump folding his arms and refusing to talk to Mueller like a stubborn toddler refusing to eat his veggies, there might be a lot of people who pay the price who don’t work in the White House.