A local pundit paired these two quotes, so I will too.
"The idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong."
-- DNC Chairman Howard Dean, in an interview with WOAI Radio in San Antonio, TX.
"And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the-of-the historical customs, religious customs."
-- Sen. John Kerry, on Face the Nation.
I've seen some folks on the left, aka our side, aka some folks at my usual hangout Democratic Underground, having a bit of a fit about both of these quotes. They say that both Dean and Kerry should know better than to say things like this that give ammo to our enemies.
Sometimes I do think we need to define what people like Kerry mean by "victory" vs what your average Republican means by "victory."
If we can get our troops home without Iraq totally collapsing in chaos, I think Kerry will call that victory.
What Republicans would call victory is what I think Dean is referring to, and what he is saying can't happen.
As for the local RW pundit, as I was skipping around the AM dial, I heard him pair Dean's words with Kerry's and then regurgitated the usual "defeatist, cut and run Dems" talking points.
Trust "Primal Scream" Dean to come out and say what other Dems won't about their withdrawl plans for Iraq, he said. That is indeed how he referred to Dean, by that false primal scream invented by the media.
Then he moved on to Kerry, saying that folks are just starting to backtrack and bring up what he said on "Face the Nation" on Sunday.
He said that Kerry must be having flashbacks to 1971 and Gengis (mispronounced) Khan to say something like "And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the-of-the historical customs, religious customs."
He had a minor fit about that, saying "WE are not the terrorists, Kerry!" So what is my local pundit saying? That the women and children ARE?!
I have to say I was pleased when my local fool said that Kerry was flashing back to his younger self with those words.
And that's a bad thing?!
-------------------------------------
Hm. I brought up Dean in my title. But the above is admittedly Kerry-heavy. So to balance things out, I want to include something that's been bugging me re: the reaction to Dean's words that I've seen here and there.
Some who support a more "out now" approach to the war have a minor fit that Dean said he does not support immediate withdrawl from Iraq ala Murtha, coughing up the old "dime's worth of difference" crappola again. What I saw on DU in the way of angst seemed to center on this quote right here from the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
Dean warmly praised Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) for "standing up and telling the truth" about Bush's policies in Iraq, and suggested that the Pennsylvanian had offered a vision around which Democrats could rally. But Dean stopped well short of embracing Murtha's call for a withdrawal plan that would redeploy all U.S. troops within about six months. Instead Dean called on Democrats to coalesce around a proposal that would keep some U.S. forces in Iraq for two more years.
The former Vermont governor's remarks underscored the party's continuing debate over Iraq and the reluctance of many party leaders to support Murtha's call for a speedy withdrawal strategy. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) announced her support for Murtha's plan last week, but others in the party leadership have declined to do so, in part out of fears that a swift withdrawal could leave Iraq worse off than it is today and hand the GOP a political weapon.
I believe Dean was probably referring to the plan by Lawrence Korb. Here's what Dean said on Morning Sedition:
"Oddly enough, the plan to get out, that I think we can get Democrats to coalesce around is a plan written by a Republican. By Lawrence Korb, who's a former Undersecretary of Defense.
Maron: We know him--he was on our show.
Dean: He's a very bright guy, and he's written a very interesting piece which I think is the key to how you get out of Iraq without endangering our troops or maximizing the terrorists' ability to cause mayhem over there. And I know Jack talked to him before he came out with his redeployment strategy. We need to redeploy our troops, the Guardsmen need to come home, there need to be a group sent to Kuwait to be on hand for the terrorist attacks, and there needs to be a group sent to Afghanistan so we can do the job there which the government wants us to do, and then we'll leave a few troops in Iraq over 2006 in order to stabilize the situation there which the President's made a huge mess of. So, I think that's a reasonable plan--I think Democrats ought to coalesce around. I think we can do that. It's gradual. The Republicans have practically signed onto it in the Senate. They know their Commander in Chief has got us into a big problem here. And you start to see them peeling away. You saw the Senate pass a resolution that 2006 should be the year of transition . Well, that was a step in the right direction for the Republicans to take.
It's important to me that my DNC Chairman gets a fair shake. It's important to know what he said, and did not say.
-------------------------------------
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, a lovely little quote from David Wade, Kerry spokesperson extraordinare, regarding recent attacks from Rush and Mehlman:
Ken Mehlman's filthy and shameful lie about a decorated combat veteran is disgraceful. Political hack Ken Mehlman and draft dodging, donut eating Rush Limbaugh have something in common. Neither of them know anything about how to make American troops safe. John Kerry will continueto speak out about how to succeed in Iraq and protect brave American troops.
David Wade
John Kerry Spokesman
Ain't that purdy?
-------------------------------------
Also, for those so inclined, don't miss Max Cleland's defense of Sen. Kerry over at HuffingtonPost. I met Max during the campaign when he buzzed through WI on the Vets for Kerry tour that also included Jim Wasser, one of Kerry's shipmates, and a dude named John Lindquist, who was in the VVAW with the good Senator.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
Here are a few bits:
The angry rhetoric on Fox News Monday night seemed all too familiar. John O'Neill, when questioned about the situation in Iraq, used the politics of personal destruction to attack a decorated veteran -- my brother John Kerry. O'Neill's arguments are a repeat of Republican politics during the last five years. We saw the same tactics used against John McCain in 2000, John Kerry last year with the Swift Boat ads, and most recently against John Murtha, one of the most respected Congressional voices on military affairs.
I am disappointed, less about the dire situation in Iraq, but more about the other side's reluctance to see anything but silver linings. They cannot bear to hear the truth about what is happening in Iraq.
O'Neill's complaints were brought on by Senator Kerry's appearance on Face the Nation last weekend. Senator Kerry said on the show that he does not want to see American soldiers put in needless danger on missions that are counterproductive and ignite the insurgency. He believes Iraqis should police their own streets and search their fellow citizens' homes. Eventually, he wants them to defend their country without American assistance. He is not calling for an all-out immediate withdrawal, but says that our government needs to tell the Iraqis that we will not be there forever.
<snip>
I've known John Kerry for a long time. He speaks out of love for our troops and out of an understanding of what it's like to be an American soldier fighting in a distant land. He speaks with the same candor today that he spoke with 34 years ago when he came home from the Vietnam War.
Like many other Vietnam veterans, John Kerry does not want to see the same movie replayed over again. It is time to focus on a redeployment plan which guarantees the safety and stability of Iraq and brings our troops home.
-------------------------------------
And for those who like more than one source for their news, an alternative take to Kos' "bogarting the limelight" post of last week. Always good to hear from both sides, I reckon:
http://www.boston.com/...
Kerry steps aside for teamwork...
( Boston Globe, by Nina J. Easton, 2005/12/04 )
On the eve of Bush's speech, Democratic Senate leaders told the media that Reed would deliver the party's official response at 11 a.m., inside the Capitol's ornate Mansfield Room. But Senate aides told the Globe's Rick Klein that Reed's staff had learned from TV producers that Kerry, past and likely future presidential candidate, had already booked a competing time slot to deliver his own remarks from the Senate's radio and TV gallery.
A last-minute scramble to organize a joint press conference ensued, and the two New England senators wound up sharing the podium.
If Kerry's action miffed the Democratic leadership, the minority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, isn't letting on. His spokeswoman praised the "the two vets for speaking out about a new course in Iraq." Meanwhile, Kerry's office offered this: "We had scheduled a press conference for Senator Kerry to talk about Iraq. When we learned that Senator Reed had one planned for the same time, we happily offered to do our event later or combine them."
-------------------------------------
Thus endeth the Kerry news dump o' the day. Enjoy. Or bitch. Or enjoy bitching. Whatever floats your dingy.