I started having the following conversation about religion with my good friend Josh. We're both atheists, he raised a Jew, I raised a Protestant. Josh is, however, perhaps the most moral person I know.
This was more in the way of random neuron-firings that I hope will spark something of a discussion. You can see my diary on Moral relativism to see where some of these thoughts have been coming from.
Read on, contribute your thoughts, please. Or not. Either way, have a good night.
-Jim
Jim: I don't know why, but spirituality and morality have been much on my
mind of late.
Does it seem to you that the Western focus on quantitatives, rationality,
and cognition prevents Christians (and Westerners of other
sectarian or secular bents) from recognizing the real purpose of religion?
Isn't religion really about family, community, and self-identity (and
consequently security)? It seems that almost every other religion in the
world (Buddhism, Judaism, etc.) really gets this. Is Christianity really
about "cognitive belief" or is that just a Western affectation (possibly
stemming from a hostility to our more emotional and primal selves)?
I blame the Greeks. Well, not really, but I think I can make a case for
rational philosophy interfering with Westerners recognizing the emotional
aspects of religion.
Josh: "The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. The religion which
based on experience, which refuses dogmatic. If there's any religion that
would cope the scientific needs it will be Buddhism. --Albert Einstein"
I don't get what you're saying about Judaism? How is it different from
Christianity from a dogmatic point of view, other than the restriction
against evangelism?
Jim: I'm not referring to dogma or fundamentalism. I'm referring to
Christianity's pretense as an intellectual religion, a religion of
thought, that does not recognize the primely emotional and community-based
reasons behind religion.
Though your point on Judaism is well-taken. Judaism is a hybrid, now that
I think of it. It's focus on community is not because of its principles
but because of the discrimination and violence Jews have experienced and
continue to experience.
Josh: Christians think they're intellectual? Catholics, maybe. Catholic
scholars have been arguing for centuries about the finest of philosophical
points. Their legal system alone is incredibly complex. But where do you see
intellectualism in the protestant reformation?
Jim: Christians in general appear to be about Big Thoughts. It is belief
(the cognitive) that is important to them. Community is important only in
so much as it teaches The Rules which lead to belief. It's almost entirely
a mental process.
Josh: I'm not following the point you're making.
Jim: Me either. Thank god I bounced this thought off of you before putting it
out there for public consumption.
Wait, I might have it: Protestantism is different but related: It's about
a personal relationship with God. Unlike Catholicism's absolutism and
focus on rational philosophy (while still being grounded in something
irrational - faith), Protestantism is about the individual and "personal
responsibility." Where they are similar is in that they eschew community
and popular deliberation. By which I mean, their focus is almost entirely
internal, instead of external.
I feel like Jesus tried to change that, but his message was corrupted by
the traditional thought patterns (internal debate and cognition a la Socrates,
etc).
Does that make more sense? Probably not...
Josh: Don't lump all protestants together. We have a negative view of
protestantism because the United States is currently controlled by a
protestant-derived death cult that has as its central tenet being fucking
insane.
Did you notice the comment in this month's esquire about how Amish voted for
Bush? WTF.
Jim: I'm not trying to relate these thoughts to the political spectrum, though.
Isn't one of the things that distinguishes a Protestant (of any denomination)
from a Catholic the idea that one needn't have an interlocutor with the Almighty?
It's a purely personal, and therefore internal, dynamic. That's my thought.
But, like I said, I'm just firing off neurons. I could be completely out on a limb.
Josh: That would, in fact, be the central difference.