"Reading RedState so you don't have to"
The title of this diary is the title of an actual RedState front-page post, where two prominent conservative bloggers are quoted as saying that they'd even vote for Hillary over Huckabee.
The resulting discussion was ...intense
The discussion ran to over 300 posts. That may not sound like a lot by dKos standards; there are probably a dozen top-rated diaries a day with that kind of traffic. On RedState, however, that's an absolutely huge comment thread. The kossian equivalent would be a 1000-comment megathread that spawned a dozen follow-up diaries.
The executive summary, for those who don't want to wade through the quotes below, is that the tensions between the different wings of the GOP coalition are becoming a lot stronger and a lot more overt. No matter who wins the nomination, there's going to be a lot of bad blood. Some of it will be erased by the coalescence around the nominee, but by no means all of it.
Early on in the thread, a comparison between the two parties' primaries:
Look at HRC and Obama. It's getting nasty between them. But their differences are all surfacy -- there really isn't much difference between them ideologically. They try to establish differences. But, in the end, they're both about the same.
But the battle lines in the Republican camp are different than that. You have two very distinct ideological camps lining up against one another. And it's not the social moderates vs. the social conservatives. It's the social conservatives vs. the "other" conservatives (and the moderates, but they don't amount to much).
[...]
There are gulfs between the Huckabee voters and the Giuliani voters. And I really don't think it's going to be one of those things where the loser licks his wounds and jumps in line. I sense something different with this one.
It doesn't take long before the battle lines get drawn. For instance,
The reality is most Midwestern, Northeastern and Western Republicans don't want another "white-male-Southern-Christian" at the top of the ticket. We know what that means in our own back yards. It's not that I have a problem with Republicans from certain parts of the country although you've made clear you put some part of the country off limits. It's that I know the same people that would go near Ken Blackwell with a ballot in Ohio won't go near Mike Huckabee or any another other religious guy from the South.
and
Giuliani is the only candidate who will be competitive in states like New Jersey and PA. The GOP needs to break out of this Southern-Plains electoral box it has built for itself by pandering to the evangelicals. It is great to have religious people involved in party politics but they need to check their religious book at the door.
which of course prompts angry replies from the social conservatives:
People like you...
...are the reason we have a Huckabee "problem." Heaven forbid us evangelicals not like a thrice married, adulterating, pro-abortion, pro-same sex marriage, social liberal from New York. Or heaven forbid we not like a constant flip-flopper from Massachussetts. Sorry we won't just shut up and go away.
You suggest we check our 'religious book' at the door? You mean the Bible? I appreciate the condescension. I apologize that I feel the senseless slaughter of millions of babies violates the tenants of my faith. Sorry that I have qualms with same-sex marriage.
(note that this guy isn't a Huckabee supporter, because he's "too liberal on fiscal issues", but there were other posters who weighed the social issues higher)
There were a fair number of comments along these lines:
I'll enthusiastically vote for any GOP candidate
but Huckabee. I'm sure I'd eventually vote for him over the Democratic candidate (I'm not that idealistic), but what a disappointment it will be.
Mike Huckabee uses the same left-wing language complaining that Bush has a "bunkered down foreign policy", and talks about being able to tolerate Iran (presumably a nuclear Iran).
and similarly,
I honestly can't find any difference between Huck and Obama on national security. The America is too mean and arrogant and we need to break bread with our worst enemies rhetoric is disturbing and dangerous.
Both are to the left of even Hillary on national security, and not much different on economics. That sad reality is the Republic would probably be safer in the hands of Hillary than Huck (a.k.a. Obama). At least she's not naive enough to believe the Ahmadinejad's of the world can have a change of heart after a few conversations. But then again, a few hundred prisoners in Arkansas fed Huck what he wanted to hear to get let off the hook. Now he wants to take that approach to the world stage where we aren't dealing with knives and guns but nukes and armies, very scary.
The more I think about it the more I may even have to vote Hillary over Huck for the sake of the nation's security. Dear God, I need to go take a shower now.
Look at that and marvel. These are hard-core Republicans publicly contemplating voting for Satan's Mistress Hillary. Sure, they probably will rally round the Elephant in the actuality, but that they're even thinking about something like that is amazing.
I confess, the next one made me laugh:
The Drive Bys must be loving this
they are praying (well they would if they believed in prayer) that we tear ourselves apart over Huck, Romney, Giuliani, and McCain.
They truly fear Fred because he will not tear this party apart and the others will and do. This is why I can see Fred being the last man standing. Otherwise I'm praying for Rudy.
Apparently there are a few remaining "Fred is the Savior of the GOP" people. Who knew? They're right that the "drive-by's" are loving this.
Speaking of absurdities, this one wins the prize for the thread:
I'd rather pull the lever for Josef Stalin than Huckabee; he'd probably be more fiscally conservative.
(and yes, there was a certain amount of facetiousness to that, but not entirely)
A close runner-up:
Hillary would homosexualize the military and nominate far-left judges/justices.
This guy may be on to something. Or may be on something. It's hard to tell.
I just recently bookmarked Redstate as one of my favorite sites. I am beginning to think that most of you are liberals masquerading as conservatives trying to stir trouble amongst conservatives
Another example of why Huckabee Is Evil:
I support Romney because he is the polar opposite of Huck. Look I want a man that has character and moral judgment but I do not want someone who injects his personal theology into politics. He did this in AK with disastrous results. He hired a "church friend" to oversee a state run childrens program. Result: 7 million dollar failure. That means children lost 7 million dollars worth of tax payer resources set aside for them.
Romney is principled but does not inject personal beliefs into politics. He proved that in MA. He closed loopholes where big Co. was getting tax exemptions but NEVER raised citizens taxes-Huck did! Romney did not support the same bill that Huck supported-giving illegal immigrants scholarships and tuition breaks over American citizens.
We can just keep going down the list Huckabee isolates AIDS, neglects women rights, ethics violations. Blah Blah.
And returning to the beginning,
I may have to vote for Hillary over Huckabee and I have never voted for a single Democrat in my 40 year life. It's not out of spite because he's not my guy and my full spectrum conservatism lost. The reason, I'll take Lady Macbeth over a fool. Huckabee's just released positions on national security and his record with criminals in Arkansas make it clear he is a fool when it comes to dealing with dangerous people and the threat they pose society, a complete and utter fool. He's Michael Dukakis and Obama on this stuff, so spare me the I'm calling him a fool because he's from the South and I'm a Northern country club bigot stuff.
As I mentioned up at the top, I'm sure that many of the posters who are so vocally complaining about Huckabee (and the mirror-image people who have similar complaints about Giuliani) would come around, however grudgingly, if he won the nomination. Not all of them, though, and they won't be particularly happy about it.
-dms