When you’re an educator, conversations with other members of the staff depend on who happens to have a planning period with you in any given semester. This past year, I shared a planned period with a conservative, who loves to talk about politics. The conservative knows that I enjoy a quality discussion over politics, and we’re both pretty civil, so conversations were bound to happen. For the most part, we differ on most things.
Actually, the one thing we agree on as that we both think Bush is a bad president. The conservative doesn’t like Bush because according to the conservative, Bush is not a conservative, particularly when it comes to spending a lot of money. When I point out that this spending wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t for the War on Terror, he’s a little quiet. But as long as more people don't like Bush, I'm happy.
Anyway, we had some interesting conversations this year.
One conversation that was particularly interesting was the convo that we had on gay marriage. It gets heated sometimes, it gets loud sometimes, but you’ll hear a lot of Republican talking points, and how I respond to them. Now, I’m not the smartest progressive here, and I’m sure there’s other quality defenses, but without more ado, here’s the conversation between me (Prog.) and the conservative (Cons).
Cons: Hey Prog, did you hear about the gay marriage ruling in California?
Prog: Of course. Great ruling by the SCOCA.
Cons: Why is this a great ruling? It seems as though the court is ruling by judicial fiat. Plus it’s going against the will of the people.
Prog: Well, first off, the court isn’t making laws, it’s simply interpreting laws that already exist. Laws in California already gave gay couples benefits. Gay marriage just goes a little farther to get that complete equality. As for the will of the people, we’ll see what they think in November. I imagine that after 5 months of gay marriage in California, people will realize that the world hasn’t ended.
Cons: I never said the world was going to end. I never said that life was going to drastically change. I’m only saying that it’s not a good decision giving marriage to those other than 1 man and 1 woman.
Prog: Why? Do you believe in Civil Unions?
Cons: Well, I believe that two people should have some sort of agreement between them and the government that would allow them to have benefits.
Prog: So you do believe in civil unions?
Cons: I wouldn’t call them that, but I guess. Why are you criticizing me for this? Barack Obama believes in civil unions too.
Prog: While he says that’s true, I actually think he’ll be all for gay marriage once he becomes president. Bottom line, he believes in equality, but he doesn’t want to alienate conservative Democrats and independents right now by saying he’s in support of gay marriage. As for me, there’s no difference between a full civil union and marriage, except for the word marriage. So we should just go all the way for any two people who would want to get married, regardless of sex.
Cons: What if three people want to get married? If the gender of the person doesn’t matter in a marriage relationship, why should the number matter?
Prog: The number shouldn’t matter. Frankly, I think that three people getting married would be fine. I’m simply looking at the Constitution. If equality of marriage is given to two men, then I absolutely believe it should be given to two men and 1 woman. In college, I knew many gay couples, but I also was acquainted with a "triple," as they were called by friends. These three people were in a healthy relationship for several years, and Chris, Julie, and Gabe are still together today. I know many on both sides of the spectrum would disagree with me heavily on this, but yes, these three should have the constitutional right to marry. Logic is on my side, conservative.
Cons: Well, I don’t like the sound of that at all.
Prog: You’re a conservative...you’re not supposed to like progress.
Cons: Nice.
Prog: Besides, this country is moving toward accepting gay relationships, whether you like it or not. While you may not support it, gay citizens of this country want marriage equality. They’re not forcing you to get married, they’re not taking away the sanctity of marriage. Britney Spears does that by herself.
Cons: But that’s the thing: I don’t think that marriage is all the gay community wants.
Prog: Really? Are you spouting crap about the "gay agenda" again? You really need to get over this.
Cons: Here’s what I’m worried about. I’m worried that: (gets out a list)
- Pastors will be forced to marry gay couples
- Churches will be forced to rent out facilities for gay weddings.
- Pastors will go to prison for preaching against homosexuality
- Children at schools will be indoctrinated by a pro-gay agenda in public schools
- Anyone who disagrees with gay marriage will be branded, like a member of the KKK
Prog: You need to calm down a little bit.
Cons: I won’t calm down. These things are already happening across the country and world!
Prog: Look...you really need to calm down. There is NO GAY AGENDA! There was never a secret meeting in the middle of Colorado where leaders of the gay community outlined a manifesto, which explains how they’re going to alter society. Stop being a freakin’ conspiracy theorist. Get a hold of yourself. Freedom of religion reigns in our country. (As I look over his list) Pastors are never going to have to marry anyone they don’t want to. As for churches, if they rent out to the general public, then they may have to rent out for a gay wedding. (At this point, I throw in a comment about the free market to drive the conservative crazy...ha!). Pastors will not go to prison for saying that homosexuality is a sin. Freedom of speech and religion trumps gay marriage always, plus I’m pretty sure that Sweden doesn’t have strict devotion to freedom of speech like we do here. As for children at school, gay couples exist. Just like children learn about families with single moms or dads, they’re gonna need to learn about kids with gay dads, and lesbian moms. If parents want to tell children that it’s sinful, then they can do it at home. Here in public schools, we talk about the way the world is, not the way parents want the world to be. Let’s be realists, Conservative. Finally, you seem to think that Americans who disagree with gay marriage will be eventually branded evil, like the KKK? You really have gone off the deep end with this gay agenda thing, Conservative...and so, I choose not to respond to this, other than by saying, I don’t think that’s going to happen, mainly because the KKK is about.0001% of the population, and there will be generally 20-40% of the population who will think of homosexuality as a sin. Not really a fringe group.
Cons: While I appreciate your arguments, they still don’t make me feel better inside.
Prog: Take some Gas-X, and get to class. The bell is ringing. And Conservative?
Cons: Yeah?
Prog: Remember, gay people aren’t out to get you. All they want is equality in the eyes of the law. I’m pretty sure they don’t want to throw you in prison for disagreeing with what you call their "lifestyle." They’re probably concerned with things like family, friends, employment, finances...well, pretty much all the stuff that you’re worried about.
Over the course of the school year, we definitely had some interesting conversations about many different topics. I’ll try to blog about some more of these conversations that I’ve had later this summer, probably over abstinence only education, and the war on drugs, perhaps.