I saw a different diary entry asking why Kristen Gillibrand's selection was made and what the difference was between upstate NY and downstate NY. I started to make a comment on that entry, but it was way too long to be a decent comment, so I decided to try my own diary entry on the subject.
So, for you uninitiated, here are some of the differences between upstate NY and downstate NY from a guy who grew up south of Buffalo, NY.
I will not focus on the big political points, but I will just give you a flavor for the different worlds. And to all you folks who are going to shout "stop stereotyping me/us" -- you basically have three options at this point of the diary: 1) stop reading, 2) toughen up a little, and/or 3) get a sense of humor.
I grew up Wyoming County -- in the same county as Attica Prison. When I was growing up I know that my county had more cows than people. I don't know if that is still true. My Congressman was Jack Kemp. Bill Paxon later represented my district. So, that will give you a pretty clear view that I didn't grow up in liberal, Democratic New York City.
Kristen Gillibrand's district is what I would call "Eastern NY."
My college roommate for four years was from the Albany area. He is a great guy, but when we first met, he and I had basically nothing in common as far as common life experiences based upon where we grew up. The area east and south of Utica can still be upstate, but has a more greater NYC-influence than the rest of upstate. People take the train to NYC from as far as 2 hours north of NYC. So if Gillibrand lives near Catskill, she lives 120 miles from NYC and it is a straight shot -- takes her 2 hours.
By contrast, I grew up around 340 miles from NYC. It was far closer to Toronto, Cleveland and Pittsburgh and a little closer to Detroit. If you sawed off New York at the western NY/PA border and kept going across, you would cut off everyone who speaks with the commonly-heard NYC accent. Everyone who finds out that I am from NY always says, "You don't speak like you are from New York." I reply -- I am not from that part of NY.
There are NYC remnants in Eastern NY. Eastern NY folk still says "soda" and western NY folk say "pop." The word choice splits around Syracuse. No idea why.
I have never met anyone from east of Syracuse who grew up playing the card game euchre. It is all we played growing up at my high school.
So -- what does it mean to be upstate versus downstate? Well, a lot of folks from Rockland or Westchester County claim that they live "upstate." They don't; except I guess in the strictest sense that they live north (up in the state) from Manhattan.
For someone who grew up in true upstate, maybe the differences can maybe best be explained by my interaction with the girls in college who told me
that they were from "upstate" when they were from Rockland County.
I have prepared a quiz based upon those interactions many years ago to determine whether you truly live upstate:
- Do you regularly wear colorful sweatsuit materials in your daily life? Correct answer to be "upstate" -- no.
- Does your dad work in NYC or for a company based in NYC? Correct answer -- no.
- Do you or your parents visit NYC more than once a month? Correct answer -- no.
3B. Do you know more than 5 Jewish families? Correct answer -- no.
- Does every one of the top 10 smartest kids in your high school class leave your home town area and move to another state? Correct answer -- yes, unless they were involved with an unplanned pregnancy in high school.
- Do you consider your home town area to be part of The Rust Belt? Correct answer -- yes.
- Do you know that when you are 22 you will probably need to move more than 100 miles away from your parents so you can get a good job? Correct answer -- yes.
- Does your county get 100+ inches of snow a year? Correct answer -- yes.
- Can you name different breeds of cow? Correct answer -- yes.
8B. If you went deer hunting more than 10 miles from your house, is there a decent chance that you might shoot a cow by mistake? Correct answer -- no.
- If I gave you a map of NY, and asked you to mark an "X" on where Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Utica are, could you do it? Correct answer -- the person would draw a map and actually do it. A downstater might say "yes," but they would generally place the Buffalo X in Canada and just scribble a large "U" somewhere that Utica might possibly be.
- Do you bitch and moan endlessly about how all of your money and electricity gets sent to NYC "for nothing." Answer -- yes.
So yeah -- even politics to one side, the areas are nothing alike. To be more technically correct, I would say you would need to split the state as follows:
- Zone 1 -- Erie PA up to areas north of Buffalo, east to the mid-point between Rochester and Syracuse, straight down to the PA border. "Western NY" Key trait -- victims of failed industries including steel and photography.
- Zone 2 -- draw a line starting 20 miles north of Rochester and Syracuse and draw it straight across to the state's Eastern border. Everything North of that line is "Northern NY". Key trait -- unbelievably poor and unbelievably beautiful to look at.
- Zone 3 -- begin at the mid-point between Rochester and Syracuse, go east to mid-way between Utica and Albany. Angle Southwest to the PA border about 40 miles east of Binghamton, follow NY/PA border over to the eastern line of Zone 1. I will go with "Central NY". Key trait -- many excellent colleges.
- Zone 4 -- begin at the mid-point from Utica/Albany and go east to the border then straight down the state's eastern borders to about 40 miles north of NYC, then west to the other border. "Eastern NY." Key trait -- influenced by both Albany and NYC
- Zone 5 -- Everything south of Zone 4. "NYC Area" -- now, folks on Long Island (sorry "lun-GUY-land") may throw a fit about this because LI has generally been more GOP and has always considered itself sort of its own entity. But I will tell you, politics to one side, the folks I have met from Long Island and folks I have met from NYC-proper have way more life experiences in common than they do with anyone from Zones 1-4.
Just my two cents.