Nothing we don't already know here....but they really are fascist pigs over at RedState.org
They are part and parcel of the current rightwing personality. Strict authoritarianism, no tolerance for honest debate, it is really unbeleivable. I was banned inside of 5 minutes. I have included the entire comment thread for your review. If you read it, pay special attention to the fact that I did not use profanity, nor engage in any name calling when making my arguments.
Alas, civilized discourse is just not in their blood I guess. I know these are the nuttiest of the nutty rightwingers, but this is what makes up the core of the Rethuglican base and it is good to see, from time to time, what we are dealing with. If these guys are in control of the country........I think we got problems.
It just makes me appreciate Daily Kos even more. At least people can come here and post disagreements and we engage them. As you will see, they do it a little differently over there.
This started when a diary was posted regarding the CIA whistleblowers entitled "RESIGN RATHER THAN LEAK"
I won't post the diary, but you can access here:
http://scantojr.redstate.com/...
It basically was saying that if you don't agree with bush you need to resign, not leak ANY infomation about alleged crimes. So I decided to comment. Below is the entire comment thread until I got kicked off: (my comments in bold)
The comment thread started out with this comment and my response:
Darn tootin! And it ain't just liberals By: gideon1789
Powell allowed State to leak to the press in a constant effort to undermine Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc. I can't believe the Pres. didn't fire Powell after a year or two. It was clear insubordination, and worse.
(User Info) (#1)
Are you kidding me??? By: waf8868
So your logic goes like this:
Since the president is elected, he can do whatever he wants. He can engage in policies that are illegal, immoral, and damaging to the long term interests of the country. He can break the law, violate the U.S. Constitution and pull end runs around both Congress and the Judiciary, whenever he sees fit to do so.
If anybody with inside information on such high crimes and misdemeanors reports these violations, then they are the bad guys????!! They should just keep thier mouth shut and enable the criminals??? Well....that is mighty convenient......for the criminals.
So, in other words.....the U.S. President, should be considered a king with all-encompassing authority...I think that is what you are saying???
Is there anybody in wingnutville who thinks this is a little nutty??? I am sorry, but your logic is ridiculous.
(User Info) (#2)
So far so good....just two guys with different views engaging in a Sunday morning debate...
Yowza! If there are any nuts here By: gideon1789
you're doing a good job of making them look sane by comparison.
The point of the post is that as an officer in the Executive branch you have a duty to follow the policy set by the Executive, and if you cannot, you should resign. No one is saying you shouldn't make it clear that you are resigning becuase you dislike the President's policies (or character, for that matter), nor is anyone saying that you should not continue to criticize the President after resigning.
But it's wrong, both in principle and practically, to continue in your post while intentionally undermining the policy of the President.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#3)
I am sure By: waf8868
that men such as Hitler and Saddam would very much agree with your sentiments.
Your views are exactly the type of views that enable noble men to pursue bold plans AND that enable tyrants to do their dastardly deeds.
Knowing if one is dealing with the former or the latter is the hard part. And that is why our system has checks and balances. Leaks regarding criminal activity is part of that system and should not be criminalized. The criminal activity, however, should be.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#5)
Then the guy trys to put words in my mouth (a favored right wing arguing tactic) to try to dismiss me.
Now it's 100% certain you're a nut and a troll By: gideon1789
Before, I was only 99% certain.
I forgot that Bush = Saddam and Bush = Hitler.
Thanks for the correction. Now I see that all those executive officers who leak to the press are great heroes for stopping our Fascist in Chief.
Strange that you Lefties can't seem to appeal to the general public in elections....
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#6)
But this fighting progressive put a stop to that with this....
You are incorrect..... By: waf8868
I did not say that bush = saddam or that bush = hitler.
Nice try though.
I said that if you short circuit our system of checks and balances, you may end up with a saddam or hitler. That is why I love our system of checks and balances and why I hate it when I see them compromised or weakened in any way.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#9)
Then some other wingnuts chimed in....
not to interject By: streiff
facts into a perfectly demented rant, but checks and balances usually hasn't been read so broadly as to include breaking the law.
People in the executive branch are not a check or balance to the executive. They are either loyal and honest or they are disloyal cretins. Leaking classified information while continuing in the employ of the executive pretty much places you in the latter category.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#14)
Doubtful, waf8868. By: Moe Lane
The two individuals in question, being vile meglomaniacal dictators with a taste for genocide, would treat any dissent against their rule in the same way: to wit, the execution of the dissenters, the dissenters' families, closest friends and a few people nearby (the last on general principle). This is, of course, obvious to anyone of even average intelligence and/or moral sense.
So, I can only assume that you were deliberately trying to offend gideon1789 by insinuating that his opinions were that of fascists, which is why you are going to apologize to gideon1789. Now.
Or you can leave. Your choice.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#11)
Now as far as the first response.....it is logically incoherent, but the tone is still engaging....the second response, however is what chills my blood about these people.....that dude actually IS invoking the spirit of Hitler (or any other dictator througout history) with his "toe the line or else" rhetoric. I hate that fucker.
So I shoot back with....
I am not apologizing to anyone..... By: waf8868
least of all cause some big headed blowhard like yourself "orders" me to. Who do you think you are???
I AM sure that both hitler and saddam would agree with the sentiments put forth by the poster in question that all leaks / dissent / insubordination should be criminalized.
And I do agree with you that the punishment for such acts would happen just as you described. That is what happens when there are no system of checks or balances.
If he is offended by my opinion then he either needs to grow a thicker skin or refute my logic, NOT send big brother out to censor me.
This is exactly the type of response to honest debate that leads to the comparisons between fascist rulers and the modern day GOP.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#13)
Now while the above little exchange was building there were some other winguts who also wanted to try and confuse the main issue, first by trying to debate the technicalities of the whistleblowing process with me:
There is a PROCESS By: Trelaina
to go through if you believe the President, or anyone in the Administration, is engaging in deceptive or illegal practices.
The process involves specific people/offices that you go to and register your complaint as an official whistleblower.
Any other method is WRONG no matter how noble the intentions.
Now, if you go through the process and don't get the results you think need to happen, you might have a case. But ignoring a valid process? Sorry, you get ZERO sympathy from me.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#4)
As far as the process is concerned.... By: waf8868
how do you know the process wasn't followed? The real issue here is the attempt to stifle dissent, not whether the official handbook for whistleblowing was followed or not.
The pattern is that anybody that speaks out against the policy of the Executive is marginalized and fired. That kind of serves as a disincentive to go through the "process".
Why should someone have to give up thier career due to somebody else's criminality??? They have a family to support as well.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#7)
And then by attempting to paint me as a partisan hack:
Citizen Blam By: JPH
Unless you're referring to President Clinton.
YankeeCon.blogspot.com
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#8)
I would be just as tolerable By: waf8868
of leaks or whistleblowing reporting on the high crimes and misdemeanors of a Presient Clinton as I am regarding the current Executive.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#10)
Finally, the wingnuts were exhausted and the inevitable occured:
Somebody who can do this. By: Moe Lane
Blam.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#15)
okay By: streiff
fine with me.
I've had enough of your slobbering diatribes. Off you go.
Be sure where you post your "I was banned from RedState because I dissented" diary. We like to collect them.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#16)
HAH! By: Moe Lane
No go, too slow, friend. :)
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#17)
And thus ends my experiment of trying to spread freedom and democracy to Red State. I don't think they appreciated the irony of a debate regarding the stifling of dissent ending with the stiffling on thier part of my dissent!!
They are apparently quite happy with the fascist system they have. The rest of America, however, would NOT be happy if that environment were to be spread throughout the country.