One of my assorted "Facebook friends", Stacy, posts opposition nearly everyday to any sort of "government run" healthcare program. I think she would classify herself as a Libertarian or maybe even a Constituionalist. As for me, I've always considered myself an "Independent". She always makes it clear that she is "for reform" (although the substance of such reform remains unclear to me). Today, for whatever reason, I decided to engage my "friend" in a friendly conversation concerning one of her posts. I found it interesting to discuss the topic with someone so vehemently opposed to something I support. Here below is the full text of that conversation:
Stacy: I believe our country needs health care reform, but I don't believe in having our government run health care. I believe we the people can figure out a better solution so that we the people run health care and we can choose who, what where, when and how much we spend! Never leave the options of your health in someone else's hands! We must UNITE.
Me:Hi Stacy, I'm curious how your position reconciles with mostly favorable feedback concerning "government run" health programs that already exist like Medicare (seniors love it, wish I could have it), the VA hospital, and the Bethesda Naval Hospital (where Dem and Repub senators often go for high-level care)? Especially in the case of Senators who have among the best "government provided" health care themselves, they "choose" to go to the government run Naval Hospital. Congresspersons cannot be denied coverage, have the "choice" of insurers, have the choice of hospitals to attend, have their coverage paid for by others (i.e the taxpayer), etc. Why, if that's all good enough for them, isn't that good enough for us? I don't see any congressmen renouncing their own government run options...
Stacy:I'm literally becoming angry at the many american citizens who are so selfish and feel it's their way or the highway when it comes to Government Health Care. Is this America? Or is this RUSSIA? I;m confused. I CHOOSE NOT TO PAY HIGHER TAXES, but I AGREEE we need health care reform. I say YES TO REFORM and NO TO GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE!
Stacy:The health care that congress has NOW will not be the same health care that the government will offer us. In fact they are exempt (read the bill it's online). Second, I don't agree with Government Runned Health Care because in the end it will eliminate private insurance companies and choices all american people should have in case of recourse. And if you think it won't, you're insane. People will not continue to pay for private insurance while being stuck with higher taxes. SECOND VETS do have great health care plans BUT they do not get to see their doctors as quickly as people may think. They are on LONG waiting list. How do I know? A friend of mine is a social worker for VETS and she witnesses these vets waiting MONTHS on a waiting list for treatments because of GOVERNMENT Buearucrats dictating when, where and how and how much! No one should dictate to you when, where, how, and how much! Not when you're paying for it. So my stance is, I follow the forefathers of this country..
Stacy:They created AMERICAN to get away from LARGE GOVERNMENTS who want to control EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. They started AMERICA to eliminate paying a tax on EVERYTHING That should be a god given gift. My ancestors came here for those freedoms, to be rid of large governments who seduce the weak during times of desperation just to obtain their agendas. I for one am not weak. I see straight. I fight for all americans, if they agree with me or not. Everyone deserves the freedom to decide their future. GOVERNMENT should NEVER tell you how to live, how to buy, what to buy, how to eat, how much to pay and where to set up your land!
Me:Hi Stacy, thx for your opinions and for caring enough to share them. I can respect your position even while I disagree with it. In large part I think this is a "framing" issue. What if we just said we were going to take the existing Medicare program and expand it to be available to all, not just those 65 and over? Putting aside for a moment your prophecy of the private insurance industry dying if forced to compete with a government backed insurance, what motivation exists today or do you propose that will reign in their costs, cut their terrible practices of dropping coverage, and making health care available to everyone? I understand you are for reform so I guess I'm just curious what that reform would look like? Should we just get rid of "health insurance" altogether, i.e. the real, existing middleman today between patients and their docs? What is the better way, because the current way just isn't stable?
Stacy:Thank you. I appreciate a good conversation with someone as intelligent as yourself. I don't believe the Government has our best interest, I don't believe they have had it over the past 8 years. for example. My grandmother who is 82 years old and poor, on medicare (not medicaid) can't receive a nurses aid because the government says she makes too much money. She comes home with 800 bucks a month from SS. That doesn't even cover rent, groceries and or prescriptions which she pays for. Now, this is the same government who wants to offer a health care bill, yet denies my grandma a nurses aid. I guess she is rich. Second, this is the same government who provides free medical to Illegals, while we pay for it. Tell me why should we pay higher taxes for an health care option, that illegals will continue to receive for free? Ex: A friend of mine who is not an american citizen came to the US and had her baby for free. Meanwhile, I am paying through the nose to have mine...
Stacy:This is the same government who promoted health care reform, with out solving the major reasons and problems as to why health care is so expensive in the first place. Why do you think our premiums are so high? When illegals receive free health care, there bill estimates billions of dollars a year. The hospitals lose money, as well as the doctors. So where do you think the money will eventually come from? Ten percent comes from the government, and the 90 percent gets charged to us with higher medical cost and higher premiums. So, as I agree we need health care reform, I believe the government is not the organization to run it, since they haven't fixed the problems we currently have. Going back to my original example, siting my 82 year old grandmother who suffers daily, who receives medicare, not medicaid because she makes too much money, was denied by the government to receive a nursed aid. I guess they feel anyone bringing home an 800 dollar a month salary from SS is considered Rich.
Stacy:What should we do, how should we reform the health care system? by sticking with and honoring the principals and the laws of this land. Our constitution. We as a people are in charge of America, not the government. We as people if we united as one, could come up with a health care plan that would not only save lives, but be affordable. Leaving this in the hands of the government is a huge mistake and will cost us in the end. If people do not read their history books, they will not see clearly in the present and history will repeat itself. We do not need larger government, we need people to unite. We could accomplish anything if we united. And the more powerful our government gets, the weaker our voice becomes as well as our freedoms and our choices.
Me:Thk u as well Stacy. Civility is possible even in disagreement. Intellectual curiosity is even more paramount. Are you actually pregnant? If so, I wish u congratulations and warm wishes. I have 2 children of my own who were covered through medicaid at the time, and my Grandmother is also on Medicare and receiving good treatment for her heart condition. I guess, as in all things, experiences are individual and in the eye of the beholder. I wish you and your Grandma well.
Stacy:Once again, remember this. The government denied my grandmothers request for a nurses aid under medicare because they feel she makes too much money. $800 dollars a month. If they can deny her health care, under medicare because they feel she makes so much money, do you really think they won't dictate who sees what doctor, what test you're able to take and if you qualify for a second opinion???
Stacy:But that is my very point. The government claims that no one should be denied care, yet under medicare, they pick and choose now who receives what kind of care and after treatment. They are no better then the private insurance companies. Which is why I believe them running health care and offering an option will just take our freedoms in the long run, eliminate competitors so we will have no recourse and be stuck with one plan, the government plan. Competitor are the key for survival for consumers. Thank god your grandmother was treated properly. God bless.
Me:Something I find interesting though is the sort of paradox your argument brings. Your Grandmother is already benefitting from two separate government programs, Medicare and Social Security Disability. Your issue in this case is not that she is getting help from the government, but that she's not getting "enough" of it. Please don't take this the wrong way, but where would she be without Medicare and SS, both of which, while not perfect, were designed to help people just like her? I think the answer is not to simply say "no" to any gov program, but to make those unique programs as effective as possible. We unite through dialogue, and by electing representatives who most closely reflect our ideals and support our interests. God bless you and your family as well dear Stacy.
Stacy:Hi. The point I am trying to make is Medicare is not so great, and the government is dictating who receives what care with medicare. They dictate just like the insurance companies they ridicule do. They are no better. We the people should come together and demand as a united front how the government should run our programs that we pay for in the form of taxes. In the end we all want the same thing, but some more then others can see that the Government has a different agenda then what we hope for. What we need if for the legal system to work and get rid of the crooks, the people who commit insurance fraud and to stop giving illegals free medical and send them back home for the crime they commit on our land. Get rid of those problems first, and then lets talk reform.
Stacy:p.s. medicare is going broke, as well as medicaid because of the problems that need to be solved as I listed above.