So i posted a back and forth yesterday. I've known the guy for a while and assumed he just wouldnt respond to my final post.
The man is not stupid, i've never considered him a radical or crazy or easily manipulated. What i got back from him late last night was absolutely shocking to me. I have not seen my old roommate for 4 years or so, but this change is both shocking and depressing.
Below is her responce to my RANT. And then my (what i can only call) a conniption.
If he finally responds to this last post of mine, i'll be sure to post that up here too: I most likely wont respond to him, but who knows....
I conceded that there was no moral equivalent. I was joking, insinuating MSNBC's actions were overt and intentional while the actions of Fox were knee-jerk. Would you consider the NAACP an arm of Fox News and acted accordingly by criticizing Sherrod? They had access to the full video - they were the one's who filmed it. Perhaps they were too heavily influenced by the Tea Party groups they condemned just last week? Or perhaps both made a mistake?
Regarding ACORN and Fox News "lies:" While Olbermann may like to trivialize allegations made by O'reilly by speaking like a bafoon, many of his points don't hold up to legitimate scrutiny AND are nothing more than character insults. Outside of the "covert" ACORN video's (which provided strong anecdotal evidence against the organization's practices), prior to the '08 election, there were serious allegations of voter fraud. In many instances the voter registration personnel who were paid per voter registered and hired by ACORN were registering voters at hotels and/or blatantly LYING/creating fake persons and addresses. By 2009 the anecdotal evidence no longer seemed so anecdotal. I find it funny that you blame the media who exposed the corruption rather than those who were utilizing illegitimate (and criminal) means to accomplish, what they thought to be, a positive end - thus compromising the jobs of the do-gooders you champion and the positive impact they had.
But where was MSNBC when there were allegations (and video) of voter intimidation in 08? Chirp, Chirp...They were more responsive to Donnie's hate video than to voter suppression stories.
Ever watch a panel on Morning Joe or Chris Mathews interview a political opponent? MSNBC didn't play the many IRAQ speeches given by Biden in '07 after he declared the Obama (or should I say Bush) strategy in Iraq a success. He was accredited with providing candidate Obama's ticket with foreign policy expertise even though his "three-state plan" was proven guff after the success of the surge. Did they "lie?" How about the health care debate - no taxes? That's what was preached by Katrina vanden Heuvel and Mika on MSNBC. Are they "liars?"
Fox News Reporters don't lie - they provide the same elevated level of scrutiny to the Obama Administration as MSNBC did to President Bush. Furthermore, Media Matters does the same thing you are criticizing Fox News of.. instead they intentionally take comments out of context to defame fox newscasters. So I wouldn't use them as the intellectual backbone for your "Fox News Lies" allegations - you will find your back (along with your argument) will quickly crumble.
I guess I should ask some of your liberal friends in the print media how to best blast your opponent - call him a racist (http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/20/documents-show-media-plotting-to-kill-stories-about-rev-jeremiah-
wright/3/)
In reality, all of this is for nothing. The most important thing is the debate. Tactics are used by both Fox News and liberal media outlets to argue (play) on their home field. We can each finding anecdotal pieces on either side "proving" the other is worse. Fact is, the adversarial relationship between them creates a thriving-energetic debate. And just because you disagree with the other, it doesn't mean they "lie."
and my response with my play by play quotes:
"Tea Party groups they condemned just last week? Or perhaps both made a mistake? "
THE NAACP and the OBAMA WHITE HOUSE ARE WHIMPS who are so scared at being attacked by the right wing media that they feel that they have to keep up with the 24 hour news cycle. having the echo chamber go on for 24/48/56 hours claiming "racists work at the obama admin. or RACISTS SPEAK AT NAACP, (AS IT DID FOR 12 HOURS) without any repercussions, is something they feel they must avoid. (if you dont get that, then whatever)
THEY MADE A HUGE MISTAKE THINKING FOX NEWS REPORTS NEWS!!!! (i WISH they wouldnt make that mistake again)
The FACT that NAACP and the ADMIN are not NEWS agencies and literally your criticism is that "well they shouldn't have snapped to judgment, they should have done some research, and in the SAME BREATH not think that the "news" media who reported it shouldn't be responsible for the EXACT SAME THING?
AGAIN, the problem isnt that they are conservatives, it isnt that they are assholes, is isnt that they editorialize things comparing the NEA as akin to NAZI propaganda. ITs that they never question when a piece fits there agenda and have no problem representing FALSE FACTS and then claim "well we're just bad at our job" like that makes it all right. but i guess the customer (you) is always right.
" they provide the same elevated level of scrutiny to the Obama Administration as MSNBC did to President Bush"
ok you see how i point out specifically the ACORN thing, and this thing, the wiki edits, TEA party protest (advertisements) then lying about the numbers of protesters. (you live in DC, what was bigger that or the 8 or so war marches you lived thru?) reading verbatim talking points from the bush admin... (i could go on)
Can you point to MSNBC literally reciting OBAMA official talking points as NEWS? do they ADVERTISE for the war protests or"march for women's lives? (largest gathering on the mall, until the obama inauguration) How about MSNBC reporting for 4 months falsely about a conservative org which eventually had to be shut down?
hey before you go spewing your fox news BULLSHIT maybe you should read up on the ACORN THING???? try a non fox site and see for yourself.
NOw am i claiming ACORN is perfect? that they've never hired a worker that broke the law?. of course not neither has any OTHER COMPANY that has more then 10,000 employees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
http://en.wikipedia.org/...
"voter fraud"
???????????
http://www.factcheck.org/...
But just believe your whore.. the wiki and factcheck.org are clearly LEFT institutions.
How can you be so WRONG? but think your so WRIGHT? are you just stupid?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/...
oh no wait, you just watch fox, therefore you are 75% more likely to be "misinformed" weather or not its because they are actively lying to you or just passively horrible at their job. Does ir really matter which?
The end result is the same, you're wrong and your ignorance is your defense. it must be a wonderful little world you live in...
I believe this, i choose not to figure out if its true... so i'll repeat it, and if I'm wrong, I cant be because i believe it?
SO when MSNBC DID REPORT ON IT, it was to repeat what FACTCHECK.org AND CNN and any honest media outlet also reported. FOX WAS LYING TO YOU (OR BEING BAD AT THEIR JOB AGAIN)
I watch MSNBC, i watch FOX, i watch CNN .. i also do this thing called "READ" you should try it some time.
" '07 after he declared the Obama (or should I say Bush) strategy in Iraq a success."
you clearly dont watch MSNBC, they talk about BIDEN's back and forth on this ALL THE TIME!!! but again, they report you repeat, and your ignorance is your defense.
"no taxes? That's what was preached by Katrina vanden Heuvel and Mika on MSNBC. Are they "liars?" "
WHO THE FRACK SAID THERE WOULD BE "NO TAXES" associated with the healthcare bill NEXUS ME A QUOTE,... ANd if one person got it wrong.. sure totally the same thing as 4 months of False ACORN reporting that destroyed a legitimate organization... DAMN WIFE AND HER WONDERING EYE, making me frack that Prostitute.
"Media Matters does the same thing you are criticizing Fox News of."
do you ever go on media matters? your ignorance helping you out here again buddy?
Right now the ED SHOW (msnbc) and ABC are the top stories. ThEY FIND LIES/distortion AND REPORT ON THEM!!! CHRIS MATTHEW's has been the "worst person of the year" multiple times!!!! BUt ORIELLY TOLD YOU they were OUT TO GET HIM AND ONLY HIM so they distort and you believe.
are they liberal? OF COURSE thats not a crime (YET) but can you point to a distortion of one quote? point to ONE EXAMPLE!!!! ONE!!!! or are you just gonna rinse and repeat FOX again?
"So I wouldn't use them as the intellectual backbone "Fox News Lies" allegations"
wait a sec, what is this 2003? WHEN DID THIS GET ON MEDIA MATTERS? how many viewers do they have? have i QUOTED THEM ONCE?.. i dont use them as my news source.. i dont use them EVEN WHEN I"M ATTACKING FOX (they have TOO many examples to comb thru, i'd be here all DAY) YOu wanna randomly talk about the easter bunny too? or big foot? Its almost like you KNOW FOX lies and you just want to JUSTIFY the FACT THAT THEY LIE!!!
YOU ARE SO A PRODUCT OF FOX NEWS!!! you're just makin SHIT UP MAN!!! (is this from your fox talking points "when attacked, talk about olberman and MSNBC, then move onto MEDIA matters and etc. anything to deflect the issue from FOX/"
BTW You're only direct criticism of OLBERMAN seems to be that he "character assassinates" but that seems to be the only thing YOUR doing here? IRONY!!!!!!! (well unless you count all those "honest mistakes" you keep making too)
"I guess I should ask some of your liberal friends in the print media how to best blast your opponent - call him a racist"
who the hell is "Katha Pollitt" some chick from the NATION?!!? thats a liberal RAG!!! its the ORIGINAL LIBERAL RAG! was she lying about facts? or was she character assassinating again? you wanna bitch about the NATION start your own damn WALL POST!!
"In reality, all of this is for nothing"
yea, cuz you'll never go on and read the NONFOX links i have there for you. And as long as there are examples of liberals (EVER) lying or hell "being mean" to conservatives you'll think FOX is justified to lye and distort till the cows come home.
i do hate to use JON stewart as legitimate debate, but he really does sum it up perfectly with this one.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/...
BUT HELL, lets say for the sake of argument all your BS is true, and the delusional world you live in was the truth. CAN YOU AT LEAST ADMIT, That FOX's Claim to be "FAIR AND BALANCED" is a lie? or is that just a "graphics mistake" and the tech guys are just as skilled as the research department and cant figure out how to fix it?
"between them creates a thriving-energetic debate."
NO IT DOESNT!! WE DONT DEBATE POLICY!!! WE DEBATE FACTS and completely ignore the ISSUES!!! THATS THE WHOLE BLOODY POINT!!! if we dont stop debating the decision of COMMUNISM VS SOCIALISM. Or DEBATE IF GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS, or any financial regulations will make us all chinese? We NEVER GET TO THE ACTUAL POLICY of balancing the budget/fixing the economy, how to curb CO2, how to prevent the next financial crisis OR GOD FORBID HEALTHCARE.
when was the last time you had a policy debate without resorting to calling the other person a communist? seriously?
"And just because you disagree with the other, it doesn't mean they "lie.""
you're right, they become lies when you ignore the facts and repeat the debunked stuff above to someone else.
but, just leave the money on the dresser on your way out.
Then i felt bad about calling my old roommate stupid and a tool and yada yada... So I went back and attempted to be less "mean." ( it is really hard to point out people are SO WRONG ABOUT SO MUCH nicely)
I really don't mean to be rude, but it is just MIND BOGGLING that you can sit there and spew the same crap over and over (specifically about ACORN 3 months later) and then use it as a linchpin in your "evidence" of other media BIAS!!! I"M CALLING FOX A LIEING ORGANIZATION FOR THIS SPECIFIC REASON! you seriously think I just made that up????
Your point seems to be "ok i might be misinformed by conservative media, BUT YOUR MISINFORMED BY THE LIBERAL MEDIA" It doesn't even cross your mind that someone (ME) might be able to NOT be tricked? It releases you from any responsibility to research for yourself "cuz it all evens out in the end." Its not just cynical, It's SCARY that ya'll have set up this little delusional world where all your "sins" can be absolved by convincing yourself (because fox told you) that "everyone else is doing it." (convenient, isnt it?) Its at the base of it, an emotional, self fulfilling childish response. DIDNT YOUR MOTHER EVER ASK YOU "if all your friends jumped off the brooklyn bridge, WOULD YOU?" It just sums up the FOX viewer relationship perfectly.
Talking to one ditto head is like talking to any other one, you have the same marching orders and the same EXACT points. (I'll admit, most liberal "bloggers" are the same way) Its just sad because you're not stupid, you've just been taken in by the biggest lie of all "fair and balanced" SOMETIMES there are NOT 2 sides to an argument, somethings have been settled and we need to move on to other things!!! But when your a "conservative" and maintaining the status quo IS YOUR GOAL, log jamming the debate with misinformation that has to be meticulously debunked before we can discuss any new issues is just a means in its own end, isn't it?