You know, I really, really hate it when asshole hate group leaders like Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council are given a national platform to spew their bigotry. I talked about this at length in my most-recced diary. Usually, when Perkins appears on a program like Hardball or a show on CNN, he is treated as a respectable person who simply has a different opinion than LGBT equality advocates. His views are given legitimacy by incompetent talking heads who are content to give his messages of hate a national audience with little or no challenge. I hate that. Tony Perkins belongs on the fringe of American society along with the Ku Klux Klan and other recognized hate groups, not on network television offering an "expert" opinion.
But every once in a while, something like this happens.
Today, CNN's Brooke Baldwin had Perkins on her show to talk about his position on marriage equality. And she wasn't having any of his shit. Let me be upfront: I think Baldwin could have better handled it, and I think she let him get away with some damaging talking points. Frankly, I don't think he should have been on the show in the first place. But, compared to anybody else who has interviewed Perkins, she nailed the interview and made him look like the sack of shit that he is. Follow me below the fold for the video, transcript, and more.
When interviewing Perkins about President Obama and marriage equality, Baldwin visibly began to lose patience with his asshattery. More than any talking head I've ever seen, she challenged Perkins and his hate head-on. She even got personal and asked him if he'd ever been to the home of a same-sex married couple and how he would tell that couple that their relationship is worth less than an opposite-sex couple's. At the end of the interview, obviously exasperated, she just came out and asked him: "Why do homosexuals bother you so much?" It's something he couldn't really answer, and he reverted to his talking points.
But perhaps the best part of the interview was watching the disbelieving stares she gave him as he spouted his nonsense. Watch the interview:
If you can't watch the video, here's the transcript of the best (and worst) part:
BROOKE BALDWIN: But my question is, I guess more on a personal level to you, have you ever been to the home of a married same-sex couple, Tony?
TONY PERKINS, president, Family Research Council: I have not been to the home of a same-sex married couple, no.
BALDWIN: If you were ever to do so and you're sitting across from them over dinner, how would you convince them that their life together – either two men, two women – hurts straight couples? What do you tell them?
PERKINS: Well, first, Brooke, we don't make public policy based on what's good for me and my family or you and your family or one couple.
BALDWIN: I'm just asking on a personal level. I'm just asking, personal level.
PERKINS: No, but I'm -- but we're engaged here in a discussion about public policy and what's best for the nation, not anecdotes or what one couple likes or how this --
BALDWIN: But this issue is -- it is personal. It is personal as well.
PERKINS: But that's not how we make public policy. Certainly there are some same-sex couples that are probably great parents, but that's not what the overwhelming amount of social science shows us. And we've got some great single moms that are doing great job – and we applaud them and encourage them. But we still know the best environment for a child is with a mom and a dad. And our policy should encourage –
BALDWIN: But shouldn't public policy, in part, be dictated by evolving cultures, evolving demographics, reflecting that?
PERKINS: But we're not evolving to a better standard when we look at children growing up without those critical role models. And, again, we've got 40 years of public policy, or the research that's come from the public policy, that shows that we've not been moving in a better direction by moving away from that standard of marriage being at the center of the family of a mom and a dad. We've actually incurred tremendous costs as a society, both emotionally and financially.
BALDWIN: Okay. I know – I know you don't want to answer the personal questions, but I'm going to try again, Tony. I'm going to try again. And this is really just it for me today. Why do you – you've never been to a home of a same-sex couple. Why do homosexuals bother you so much? I mean would it be fair to characterize –
PERKINS: They don't bother me. They don't bother me.
BALDWIN: They don't bother you?
PERKINS: No.
BALDWIN: Not at all.
PERKINS: I'm not going to -- I'm not going to be silent while they try to redefine marriage in this country, change policy, what my children are taught in schools and what religious organizations can do. I'm not going to be silent, nor are millions of other Christians across this country. It doesn't mean that we have a dislike for homosexuals.
BALDWIN: But if they don't bother you, then why shouldn't they have the same right to get married?
PERKINS: They don't have a right to redefine marriage for the rest of us. They don't have a right to take away my religious freedom. They don't have a right to step between me and what my child is taught. That's what's happening. That's why people are getting involved. And that's why this issue will not be resolved, whether the president says it should be or not. There are many, many Americans, as we've seen in every time – every time this has gone through the ballot box, Americans understand, the definition of a marriage is what it's been for 5,000 years, it's the union of a man and a woman.
The part of the interview that bothered me (other than, you know, the fact that Perkins
was being interviewed in the first place) was when Perkins repeated the familiar talking point that same-sex couples do not make good parents. That could have easily been debunked by a prepared host, but Baldwin offered no challenge to that malicious lie.
GLAAD agrees--while they called Baldwin's interview "good journalism," they also rightly pointed out that she missed an opportunity to set Perkins (or, at least, the national audience) straight.
Perkins, as he always does, gave his line about “social science” showing “kids do best with a mother and a father.” This is absolute garbage. The studies he is citing compared kids raised by a mother and a father to kids from single parent homes. Every single mainstream study that has ever been conducted, comparing kids raised by two gay parents to kids raised by two straight parents, has found absolutely no difference.
Here is what a few of the nation’s leading health and child welfare organizations have to say: (feel free to skip ahead, unless you’re a journalist.)
The American Academy of Pediatrics says: "[S]cientific literature demonstrates" that same-sex couple children "fare as well."
The American Psychiatric Association says: "Research indicates that optimal development for children is based not on the sexual orientation of the parents."
The American Psychological Association says: "There is no scientific basis for concluding that lesbian mothers or gay fathers are unfit parents on the basis of their sexual orientation."
The American Psychoanalytic Association says: "Gay and lesbian individuals and couples are capable of meeting the best interest of the child."
The Child Welfare League of America says: "Any attempt to preclude or prevent gay, lesbian, and bisexual individuals or couples from parenting, based solely on their sexual orientation, is not in the best interest of children."
But Baldwin is to be commended for making Perkins look like a bumbling fool on national television and for making him admit that
"some same-sex couples are probably great parents." That must have been an uncomfortable moment for a raging homophobe like Perkins.
The interview was refreshing to watch. But like I said, Perkins should not have been on CNN at all. Mainstream networks need to stop giving this asshole airtime. But if they're going to let him spew his hate, we need more interviewers like Baldwin and fewer like Chris Matthews.