I had a great conversation with an undecided voter tonight phone banking. It's not the first time it's happened, but I had a particularly in depth conversation with this gentleman. It was a really positive experience for me to discuss the issues for a long time with a voter who was open minded and thoughtful, so I decided to post what I could recall from our conversation here, a rough summary from memory.
He was an older gentleman, I think white, and living in a rural area of Virginia, but he was open minded and really wanted to know about the issues. I have a feeling he started out leaning towards Romney even though he told me he was undecided. I decided to spend a lot of time talking with him even though in phone banking, the goal is to move quickly, and at least I felt that it worked out well.
[Starting out with the vanilla phone banking stuff]
Me: Hi, is [his name] available?
Him: That's me.
Me: Hi [his name], my name is Tony and I'm a volunteer with Organizing for America, in support of President Obama in Virginia. How are you tonight?
Him: I'm alright.
Me: Good. Will you be supporting President Obama this year?
Him: I'm not sure at this point, I'm still thinking about it.
Me: What issues would sway you one way or the other?
Him: Well lot's of issues. For one, in the area that I live in, people are really struggling to find jobs.
Me: The economy is definitely struggling. But when Obama came into office, the housing market was collapsing, the auto industry was collapsing, we were losing 700,000 jobs a month, the banks were collapsing. It wasn't a question of whether the economy was good or bad, we weren't going to have an economy. Now, the auto industry is coming back, the housing market is coming back, the money that was given to the banks-- 90% of it has been paid back-- and we've gained 5 million private sector jobs since the recovery started.
Him: That's true, but it's so slow, though, this recovery. I don't know what would make it grow faster.
Me: Part of the problem is that before the recession, consumers and households and businesses built up so much debt, credit card debt, mortgage debt, and now they're paying it back. That means they're not spending as much and the recovery will be slower. But it's on a stronger foundation than it was before the recession. What grows the economy is when the middle class has money to spend. Because then businesses will sell more and that'll help them grow as well.
Him: I think so too. I work in the private sector, in a small company, and I hope you're right. My boss is so stingy, we haven't had a raise in four or five years.
Me: Do you mind me asking what industry you work in?
Him: Well I work in [housing-related industry] company.
Me: I guess a lot of that depends on the housing market too, doesn't it?
Him: Yeah, when the housing market is good, people spend more on what we make. See, I don't blame Obama, I think he's trying his best. But the problem is Congress. Congress isn't doing anything and I don't know how Obama can fix it. It's gridlocked. Obama can't do anything by himself, it's really Congress that needs to get its act together.
Me: Well I definitely agree with you there. We need a change in Congress, and one of the people who would bring that is Tim Kaine. Are you supporting him?
Him: Yeah, I don't know where you're calling from, but he was a good Governor.
Me: I'm calling from [city in northern Va], yeah he was a good Governor and he had to work across the aisle with the Republicans in the legislature to get things done so he knows how to do that.
Him: Yeah, I'll probably be supporting Kaine. I mean, I've been following this with an open mind. I watched the debates, and I guess Obama didn't really show up to the first debate, and that turned off a lot of people. And in the Vice President debate, I guess Biden came off as arrogant. But in the last two debates, especially the last debate, I think Obama did well.
Me: Yeah, I'm a big Obama supporter, but I was disappointed in his first debate too. But in a debate, they can say anything, they can promise anything, and no one ever fact checks them or holds them accountable. Actions speak louder than words. We know these guys. Look at their records, look at their policies. Mitt Romney says he wants to spend trillions cutting capital gains taxes, and the estate tax. Most middle class people don't have a lot of capital gains or estate taxes. And he says he's going to pay for it by cutting deductions. Well even if he cut every single deduction, including the mortgage interest deduction which would kill the housing market, he would still barely pay for the tax cuts he's proposing. And then he hasn't even begun to deal with the deficit. How's he going to deal with it? He's not. President Obama has a different approach- he prioritizes the interests of the middle class. No matter what happens, he'll prioritize the middle class more than Romney.
Him: What do you think it takes to be middle class? I think I'm in the lower class.
Me: He'll prioritize the interests of the lower class more than Romney as well.
Him: But I just don't know what Obama can do with a second term if he can't win over Congress.
Me: After the lame duck session, Obama did work with Congress to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell, pass a treaty with Russia, and extend tax cuts. Right now, the problem is that Congress is being obstructionist. They're doing that because they're trying to defeat Obama. They're thinking about politics, not what's good for the country. If they're successful and Romney wins, they'll be vindicated and whichever party is in opposition will decide that obstructionism is the right solution. Then we'll be stuck with obstructionism forever. By reelecting President Obama we'll show them their obstructionism failed. We have to send a message that obstructionism is wrong, and that Congress needs to get its act together and work in a bipartisan way.
Him: I agree with that. You sound like you know what's going on. Let me ask you about Obama care. My premiums are going up, and I'm older, so I need health insurance. I hear some people saying Obamacare will increase premiums, and other people saying that because more will buy health insurance, it'll decrease them. Do you think Obama care will mean premiums will go up or down in the future?
Me: A lot of factors go into what premiums are, not just Obama care. Before Obama care was passed, premiums were going up really fast. Be careful about who you listen to because most people have an agenda. But the Congressional Budget Office, Politifact, and FactCheck.org are pretty objective sources. I think what they say is-- that premiums will still go up but Obamacare will mean they won't go up as fast.
Him: So it'll decrease the rate it goes up a bit?
Me: Right. And there's a provision in Obamacare that says if health insurance companies want to raise premiums, they have to justify that based on the care that they're providing. And if they're not spending at least 80 percent of their income on actual services to the people covered under them, at the end of the year they have to refund that extra money back. Did you know that?
Him: No, I didn't. Thank you for telling me.
Me: And the other thing those studies don't take into account is-- one of the reasons why premiums keep going up is that right now doctors are paid based on how many services they provide. So the more visits, the more medications they prescribe, the more treatments, the more money they make. So that incentivizes them to tell you to buy more than you need. One of the ways to do it differently is to pay doctors based on the health and results of their patients, some people say that'll make premiums go up more slowly. So there are some people out there testing whether that'll work-- and in Obamacare, there's money that funds these tests and experiments. So that could lower premiums, but the studies don't take it into account because the effect is hard to estimate.
Him: That makes sense.
Me: And what you said in the beginning is absolutely right. All these people without insurance--
Him: Yeah, a lot of people get free emergency room care for free.
Me: Right. You and I have insurance, and we're paying for that. Those people should pay for their own emergency room care.
Him: Well alright, I'll continue to look at the issues, but I guess I'm leaning towards Obama at this point. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk with me.
Me: Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. What's important is that you're voting, because that's what we do in this country.
Him: Good night.
Me: Good night sir.
UPDATE: The rec list! Thank you very much. If you have time please read this piece on why phone banking and canvassing can be really effective. Because it's easy to get discouraged while doing this.