Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer went to the Oval Office Tuesday to serve notice to Donald Trump that the days of doing and saying whatever he damn well pleases with zero facts to back it up are done. Trump’s factless antics had worked fine with a complicit Republican party that did everything possible to keep their Dear Leader pampered and happy, but the pamper party is over.
The two Democrats went to the White House to "negotiate in good faith," as Pelosi put it, over funding to keep the government open. Trump wants $5 billion for the border wall he originally pledged Mexico would pay for but is now demanding the American taxpayers fund. But pouring that much money into a border wall is a nonstarter for congressional Democrats, who will happily put more money into border security, but not a wall that experts say will accomplish very little, if anything.
Pelosi clearly went into the meeting hoping for decorum and, perhaps, even some progress in the negotiations. Schumer wanted to make it clear that Democrats hoped to avoid a shutdown, but not if the price tag was $5 billion for a wall. Trump planned to ambush them with all kinds of fantastically false statistics written on flash cards about how the border wall would solve nearly all of the nation’s immigration problems (the fact checks will be fun). That's where the fun began.
After Trump said he could get his wall funding passed through the House "in two seconds," Pelosi explained to Trump that, actually, he doesn't have enough Republican votes in the House to pass $5 billion for the wall.
"There are no votes in the House—majority of votes—for a wall," said Pelosi, widely known as the best vote counter in a generation of House speakers.
"Exactly right," added Schumer.
Trump countered, saying that if he wanted, "in one session, it would be done."
Pelosi: "Well then, go do it."
Trump continued to insist he had the votes in the House, but the Senate was the real problem."It doesn't help because we need 10 Democrats in the Senate," he said.
Before Schumer could jump in, Pelosi reiterated: "The fact is, you do not have the votes in the House."
Here it's important to note that Pelosi and Schumer have given Trump two ways to avoid shutting down the government: Pass a half dozen funding measures that have already been agreed upon by Democrats and Republicans and then do a one-year continuing resolution to fund Homeland Security; or do a one-year continuing resolution for all seven appropriations bills that will keep the government funded at its current level. Both options would punt on the biggest sticking points but would also avoid a shutdown.
Trump's position is that, since neither of those options provides $5 billion in wall funding, they're dead on arrival.
Back to the Oval. Trump claimed without any evidence that "terrorists" are "pouring into our country." Schumer reminded Trump that the Washington Post just awarded Trump "a whole lot of Pinocchios" for his unfounded claims about the wall.
Schumer then clarified that Democrats disagree with him about the wall, but not about border security.
"We do not want to shut down the government," Schumer told Trump, before reminding him of his consistent fervor over a government shutdown. "You have called 20 times to shut down the government,” Schumer recalled, “You say, 'I want to shut down the government!' We don't—we want to come to an agreement. [...] We have solutions that will pass the House and the Senate right now and will not shut down the government. And that's what we're urging you to do—not threaten to shut down the government because you can't get your way."
Trump rejected the path laid out by Schumer, saying, "If it's not good border security, I won't take it."
Trump and Schumer at this point, seated about five feet from each other, were about as close to going to blows from a political standpoint as it gets.
Pelosi then tried to intervene. "Let's call a halt to this," she said, adding that she and Schumer had come to the White House to negotiate "’in good faith’ about how we can keep the government open."
Instead of taking the invitation to call a temporary truce, Trump replied, "We're going to keep it open, if we have border security."
Pelosi responded, "I'm with you, we are going to have border security."
Schumer took that momentary Kumbaya moment over having "border security" to box Trump in. "You're bragging about what has been done," Schumer remarked. "By us," Trump added, declaring credit, but also boxing himself in further.
"We want to do the same thing we did last year, this year," Schumer explained. In other words, if what you did was so great last year, let's do it again and avoid the shutdown. "If it's good then, it's good now, and it won't shut down the government," Schumer explained, offering to have further "debate in private." (Note: This is the second time the Democratic leaders try to move to a private debate so, as Pelosi explained, they wouldn't have to publicly tell the president, "You don't know what you're talking about."
A reporter then asked Trump if it's possible to have border security "without the wall."
"You need the wall—the wall is a part of border security," Trump said, digging in his heels before reporters could be ushered out of the room. "You can't have very good border security without the wall—no," Trump reiterated, punctuating his point.
Pelosi wasn't having it. "That's just absolutely not true—that is a political promise," Pelosi said, reducing Trump's supposed point of fact down to exactly what it is, rhetoric.
Schumer quickly jumped in with, "The experts say you can do border security without a wall, which is wasteful and doesn't solve the problem."
Trump couldn't stand it. "It totally solves the problem," he parried.
At that point, Pelosi noted the debate had "spiraled downward.” She and Schumer, she said, had come to meet with Trump in order to figure out how “to meet the needs of the American people.” Pelosi added, "This is most unfortunate."
Trump countered, "But it's not bad, Nancy, it's called transparency."
"It's not transparency when we're not stipulating to a set of facts," Pelosi responded, noting that they had hoped to have a more clear-eyed discussion about the issues.
"You know what," Trump said interrupting Pelosi, "we need border security—that's what we're going to be talking about—border security. If we don't have border security, we'll shut down the government."
Finally, Pelosi had had enough. If Trump was going to insist on prosecuting a bogus case publicly, Pelosi was going to call B.S.
"Let me just say this, what the president is representing in terms of his cards over there, are not factual. We have to have an evidence-based conversation about what does work, what money has been spent, and how effective it is," Pelosi explained. "This is about the security of our country, we take an oath to protect and defend, and we don't want to have that mischaracterized by anyone," she stated.
On that last part, Trump finally conceded, "I agree with that."
Pelosi once again tried for a wrap, suggesting they have a private conversation where "we don't have to contradict in public the statistics that you put forth," instead allowing them to have an unfettered conversation about both what might work and what the nation actually needs.
Schumer took the moment to once again voice Democrats' opposition to a shutdown. "The one thing I think we can agree on is, we shouldn't shut down the government over a dispute—and you want to shut it down," he said looking at Trump, "You keep talking about it."
That drew Trump back in. "Last time," Trump said, "you shut it down."
Schumer stuck to his point. "20 times, 20 times, 20 times you have called for: 'I will shut down the government if I don't get my wall.'"
"You want to know something," Trump started, trying to get a point in.
Schumer interrupted. "You've said it, you've said it," he reiterated, goading Trump.
"Okay," Trump said, bucking up, "I'll take it."
"Okay, good," Schumer said, nodding in agreement.
Trump continued, "You know what I'll say: Yes, if we don't get what we want, one way or the other—whether it's through you, through military, through anything you want to call—I will shut down the government, absolutely." Trump then added, puffing out his chest a little further, "And I'll tell you what, I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck. [...] I will take the mantle, I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it. [...] and I'm going to shut it down for border security. Okay."
Schumer was fine with that point of agreement, offering, "But we believe you shouldn't shut it down."
By the time Trump had stopped talking and reporters were ushered out, he had promised to shut down the government over his wall at least another half dozen times. Back on Capitol Hill, Pelosi broke down Trump’s braggadocio over the wall for her Democratic colleagues.
“It’s like a manhood thing for him. As if manhood could ever be associated with him. This wall thing,” said the California congresswoman.
Here’s the 10-minute Oval Office exchange: