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I drilled down into the DailyKos/PPP weekly poll for the last two weeks and noticed something I believe is politically significant: President Obama is winning the vote of self-described "moderates" by extraordinary margins.

Look at this data:

FAVORABLES
Obama       Favorable/Unfavorable (1/14-1/16 MOE 3.1)

Moderates                   65/29
Independents                44/52

Obama       Favorable/Unfavorable (1/6-1/9 MOE 3.1)

Moderates                   58/36
Independents                38/53

JOB APPROVAL

Obama       Approve/Disapprove (1/14-1/16 MOE 3.1)

Moderates                   61/33
Independents                37/57

Obama       Approve/Disapprove (1/6-1/9 MOE 3.1)

Moderates                   56/38
Independents                40/54

Keep in mind that in this week's poll results, moderates were 44% of the sample. In the prior poll, moderates were 51% of the sample. Independents, however, were 27% this week and 24% last week.

As you can see, President Obama has improved his numbers substantially among moderates and independents over the past week, except for job approval among independents, which ticked down a bit. But of even more importance is how substantially different his numbers are among self-described moderates and self-described independents. How could this be?

Let's look at one more piece of interesting data:

RE-ELECT
Obama       Obama/GOP Opponent (1/14-1/16 MOE 3.1)

Moderates                   60/30
Independents                40/43

The point here is that not all independents are moderates. In fact, a heavy plurality of moderates are already Democrats. Tom Jensen of Public Policy Polling noted this from our poll:

-Obama’s approval with moderate independents is 52/39

-Among moderates 44% are Democrats, 33% are independents, and 22% are Republicans

I dug a bit deeper into the raw data using MSXL. If you filter just those who are self-described independents, you discover even more juicy information about who the independents actually are:

INDEPENDENTS
(1/14-1/16 MOE 3.1)

Liberal         7%
Moderate       56%
Conservative   37%

A majority of independents call themselves moderate, some call themselves liberal, and a substantial number call themselves conservative. Obama's approval numbers among moderate independents, as Jensen notes, are almost as strong as those among moderate Democrats. His job approval among liberal independents isn't nearly as strong: 37% approve, 58% disapprove. So the argument that Obama isn't winning moderate independents falls flat on its face. He's doing exceedingly well among moderates of both Democratic and independent stripe. If there is anywhere he could quickly bump himself up a point or two, it is among liberals.

The conventional wisdom in Washington is that if President Obama is going to win back "moderate middle-of-the-road" voters, he has to "move away from the left." The president, however, is winning moderate voters by substantial margins. It isn't even competitive. If the president is a radical lefty, the moderate middle-of-the-road voters don't seem to mind. He doesn't need to cut Social Security or deregulate to win the moderates. He doesn't need to eliminate important programs or even balance the budget to win them either. President Obama doesn't need to move to the center. He's already there!

I did even more digging and found out where all the moderates are located geographically and discovered that if Obama does need to win over anyone, it is independent Midwestern moderates. But the bulk of his disapproval numbers are all in places and among groups he has little chance of winning anyway, namely the South and Midwestern conservatives. Here are his numbers among Midwestern independents of all stripes:

FAVORABLES MIDWESTERN INDEPENDENTS ONLY
Obama       Favorable/Unfavorable (1/14-1/16 MOE 3.1)

Favorable       37
Unfavorable     52
Unsure           9

JOB APPROVAL MIDWESTERN INDEPENDENTS ONLY

Obama       Approve/Disapprove (1/14-1/16 MOE 3.1)

Approve         23
Disapprove      44
Unsure          14

RE-ELECT MIDWESTERN INDEPENDENTS ONLY
Obama       Obama/GOP Opponent (1/14-1/16 MOE 3.1)

Obama             35
GOP Opponent      41
Unsure            25

He's actually got a bit of opportunity room among Midwestern independents to win some people over. His low favorables are much better than his low job approval ratings among that group. I speculate these numbers have everything to do with JOBS and very little to do with him being a "liberal." If Obama wants to win the Midwest, and the election generally, it will take JOBS and not any sort of "move to the center."  

(I feel the need to wave the orange flag a bit. Is there any other major poll where an average citizen can dig into the questions, cross-tabs, answer key, and raw data this way? People in this community can do the same thing I did and gain deep insight into the sorts of intricate polling data that many people in the media only glance at. I encourage you all to dig into the DailyKos/PPP poll and have some fun with it just like I did.)

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:36 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  It's not an accident... (10+ / 0-)

    ...this is what the lame duck session compromise was supposed to accomplish.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:38:14 AM PST

    •  (Although I'll note... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jct, yank2351, TomP

      ...that he's probably always been winning "moderates" and losing "independents" to some degree, as BBB notes the self-description process seems to ensure that moderates are centrist/left-leaning and independents are a motley crew of all wavelengths, but with a heavy pluralism of strong conservatives.)

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:45:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not what the above numbers suggest. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        714day, Geekesque

        The heavy plurality of independents are self-described moderates.

        There is, however, a substantial conservative minority among independents. And that (as well as, it turns out, the smaller liberal minority among independents) accounts for Obama's weaker numbers among independents than among moderates.

        •  But then the moderates... (0+ / 0-)

          ...are themselves splittable, blah blah blah. I think the point is when you take a random group of people self-identifying as independent and a random group of people self-identifying as moderate, the former will be right of "average" and the latter will be essentially average or a tiny bit to the left.

          it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

          by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:16:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Conservatives are starting (0+ / 0-)

          to flock to the "independent" label, especially traditional conservatives who are disturbed by the GOP's growing embrace of Tea Party rhetoric and those who are bothered by the continued focus on social issues such as opposing abortion and gay rights.

          Now to try to end the wars we ask our gay and straight soldiers to fight. -- Chris Hayes

          by Cali Scribe on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 01:22:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  What's left unsaid (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wom Bat

      The administration believes the liberals will come home in 2012.  

      They don't care about what liberals are thinking vis a visa approval ratings.

      •  Well, liberals WILL come home in 2012... (10+ / 0-)

        ...and if they choose to be insolent and stay home or cast a protest vote they will, as always, get the government they deserve and that will be that for four years. It's one of the more simple known knowns of 2012.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:55:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And this attitude is why Glenn Greenwald... (8+ / 0-)

          ...was 100% correct when he wrote:

          There's a fundamental distinction between progressives and groups that wield actual power in Washington:  namely, the latter are willing (by definition) to use their resources and energies to punish politicians who do not accommodate their views, while the former unconditionally support the Democratic Party and their leaders no matter what they do.  The groups which Obama cares about pleasing -- Wall Street, corporate interests, conservative Democrats, the establishment media, independent voters -- all have one thing in common:  they will support only those politicians who advance their agenda, but will vigorously oppose those who do not.  Similarly, the GOP began caring about the Tea Party only once that movement proved it will bring down GOP incumbents even if it means losing a few elections to Democrats.

          That is exactly what progressives will never do.  They do the opposite; they proudly announce:  we'll probably be angry a lot, and we'll be over here doing a lot complaining, but don't worry:  no matter what, when you need us to stay in power (or to acquire it), we're going to be there to give you our full and cheering support.  That is the message conveyed over and over again by progressives, no more so than when much of the House Progressive Caucus vowed that they would never, ever support a health care bill that had no robust public option, only to turn around at the end and abandon that vow by dutifully voting for Obama's public-option-free health care bill.  That's just a microcosm of what happens in the more general sense:  progressives constantly object when their values and priorities are trampled upon, only to make clear that they will not only vote for, but work hard on behalf of and give their money to, the Democratic Party when election time comes around.

          I'm not arguing here with that decision.  Progressives who do this will tell you that this unconditional Party support is necessary and justifiable because no matter how bad Democrats are, the GOP is worse.  That's a different debate.  The point here is that -- whether justified or not -- telling politicians that you will do everything possible to work for their re-election no matter how much they scorn you, ignore your political priorities, and trample on your political values is a guaranteed ticket to irrelevance and impotence.  Any self-interested, rational politician -- meaning one motivated by a desire to maintain power rather than by ideology or principle -- will ignore those who behave this way every time and instead care only about those whose support is conditional.  And they're well-advised to do exactly that.

          Until and unless liberals and progressives build ourselves a real exit strategy within or outside of the Democratic Party, center-right Democrats can count on liberals and progressives coming home.

          So Addison is correct, but what s/he describes is a but (indeed the central bug) of the politics of 2012, not a feature (unless, that is, you're a Corporate Democrat, in which case it's the very foundation of your authority).

          •  Erp.... (0+ / 0-)

            So Addison is correct, but what s/he describes is a but bug (indeed the central bug) of the politics of 2012, not a feature (unless, that is, you're a Corporate Democrat, in which case it's the very foundation of your authority).

            Why won't the stupid preview feature work without my having to read the preview?!?  

            ;-)

          •  There's no exit strategy... (8+ / 0-)

            ...that involves national politics. Nader proved that again and again. National/Federal politics is simple not going to make room for some mythical progressive chimera candidate who governs the way some on Daily Kos wants him or her to govern. If "progressives" want power and want to find a way to exert their influence, they should stick with very local politics and work their way up -- the idea that there's still an undiscovered, but extant, way for leftists to gain national power and influence is tiring for everybody. Furthermore, the idea that it involves staying at home when Obama's up for re-election or leaving Tester out to dry is something worse than tiring.

            it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

            by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:14:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Republicans are in charge of local (3+ / 0-)

              areas because they figured this out a long time ago, and the Tea PArtiers are capitalizing on their gains.

              It's more dramatic and exciting to dream about President Progressive, but we're not that large a cohort yet.  We could be in 20 years if we work the bench locally.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:28:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  We don't have 20 years. (0+ / 0-)

                This is exactly what is so irritating. The world doesn't have 20 years to wait while we get our shit together. Neither does our country. So, I agree with the strategy, but disagree that there is time enough to make it work.

                This was our best shot, and we muffed it.

                How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

                by Diebold Hacker on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:56:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  We really do have 20 years, but (0+ / 0-)

                  only if we don't give the store away to the Republicans.  We're in a critical state but I'm reading about changes that are happening with climate change issues that are being handled without involving Congress, or are happening in the private sector.

                  One of the most encouraging things I've read lately is that Ford took the sludge from booming the BP clusterfuck and used it to build engine housings on the Focus.  It was a corporate decision - don't send it to landfills, find a way to use it.  

                  At this point the most serious issues will probably have to be handled under the radar, but we sure as hell need to build that bench so we can do things better in the future.  

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 02:22:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Again, this liberal will not. (0+ / 0-)

          So I guess they'll need to find some right wing voter to replace me with. They are fine with that, and so am I.

          How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

          by Diebold Hacker on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:53:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  SOU speech on "austerity push" will be telling (0+ / 0-)
      •  I know they think that. They're wrong. (0+ / 0-)

        And maybe they've just written us off. Whatever. I'm done with them.

        How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

        by Diebold Hacker on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:47:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Speculation to pin this on that. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FogCityJohn

      Since we cannot know the deep data from then to know, we can only speculate.

      The solidness of these margins, however, seem to lend some weight to the idea that Obama has in fact been winning moderate voters for a long time and only firmed up recently.

      But if you have Washington tell the story, Obama was losing moderates until he cut taxes for the rich.

      I'm not buying it.

  •  We've been confusing independents (11+ / 0-)

    from moderates for some time now.  Independents include a lot of disaffected people on both the right and left.  Glad to see someone making this distinction.

    {This Space Intentionally Left Blank}

    by DaveV on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:38:40 AM PST

  •  Since he is governing as a moderate (8+ / 0-)

    it is only logical that he is winning the approval of moderates.  

    But yes, the media drumbeat that he must stop dragging us down the road to socialism and free love, is pretty nuts.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:40:19 AM PST

    •  And will those moderates all of a sudden vote (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MrJayTee, Mr Robert

      for him?

      Good luck with that plan DNC.

      If the DLC fiscal recovery plan we are embarking on doesn't work, the country will just move further right because this will now be assumed as the Democratic position.

      Champagne anyone?

      "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

      by justmy2 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:42:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, they did before, right? (0+ / 0-)

        Hence his commanding mandate in 2008.  Most certainly the Overton window keeps moving, in a direction I don't like.  Today's moderate Dem is indistinguishable from Nixon.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:44:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unfortunately, I think the idea that (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp, Imhotepsings, laker, flhiii88

          you only get one chance to make a first impression is valid in this situation.

          In the end, if UE goes down 1.5-2%, he wins.  Any less, moderates will try something new unless the GOP nominates Palin, which they won't.

          "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

          by justmy2 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:47:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Hey, I resemble that remark. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          flhiii88

          I am a self-described moderate, and I also was alive and well during the Nixon regime.  

          A dish of hyperbole after breakfast unsettles my otherwise productive and progressive leaning day.

          And you have a good day.

          •  Where is the hyperbole? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            hester

            There are genuine resemblances between yesterday's moderate Republican and today's moderate Democrat.  Thr overlap includes fundamental positions on healthcare, business regulation, and tax structure.

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:57:09 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Answer to question. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Imhotepsings, flhiii88

              Today's moderate Dem is indistinguishable from Nixon.

              Hyperbole with cinnamon raison spice and everything nice.  I was alive in the seventies...and there is no possible way that you could ever ever ever convince me that what you say is true.  And I shall fight this to my grave...

              •  Well don't do that! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FogCityJohn

                Okay, "indistinguible" qualifies.  But it was merely a touch of color to a fundamentally sound observation: that the Overton window of what constitutes "the center" has moved.  Obama's healthcare policy, in particular, was not considered leftist when it appeared in numerous Republican proposals over the years.

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:05:29 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  This is the problem with understanding.... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  justmy2, lgmcp, FogCityJohn

                  ...politics on a simple left-right divide.

                  A lot of Nixon's domestic policies--e.g. wage and price controls, creating EPA, frank Keynesian economic management, his HCR proposal--were in some formal sense far to the left of anything that leading Democrats would propose today.

                  But this reflects two important facts:

                  First, Nixon really didn't care about domestic policy and was willing to do what he felt was necessary to pry voters away from the Democrats over to the Republicans. The group he targeted in particular were white, working class, often unionized Democrats (people who would later be labelled "Reagan Democrats").  This accounts for a lot of bones he threw toward organized labor (which would have been unimaginable in earlier or later GOP administrations).

                  Second, the fanatical belief in "markets" which has dominated the economic thinking of both major parties since the last years of the 1970s was still in the future.  So no apologies were necessary for massive new regulation (EPA) or Keynesianism.  

                  But when one looks past domestic policies (which are, of course, a very big part of what a presidency is about), much of the Nixon presidency, especially its political style, is the direct precursor of what's worst in conservative/GOP politics today.

        •  I disagree with this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lgmcp

          Today's moderate Dem is indistinguishable from Nixon.

          Nixon was, in many ways, far more liberal than many of today's "moderate" Dems.

          Maladie d'Amour, Où l'on meurt d'Aimer, Seul et sans Amour, Sid'abandonné

          by FogCityJohn on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:30:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  moderate ? really ? (0+ / 0-)

      you mean moderate in the sense of not-crazy rightwing, right ?

      Because he sure as hell isn't moderate in the sense of center.

      big badda boom : GRB 080913

      by squarewheel on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:10:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You are using statistics and polling to (5+ / 0-)

    assess the current pulse of the country and its ideology.

    WRONG!!!

    The most accurate assessment of what the President should do would be based on the whims of the panel of Morning Joe on any given day.  And maybe Daily Rundown.

    WWDDD?

    What Would Donnie Deustch Do?

    They watch Morning Joke daily and say so every chance they get.

    Silly BBB and your facts....*hrrrmph*

    "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

    by justmy2 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:40:47 AM PST

  •  this is all very entertaining, but (10+ / 0-)

    it looks as though the President has already decided how he wants to govern -- and that's by lurching desperately to the right.

    •  The cake is baked (6+ / 0-)

      Liberals just need to decide whether the alternative is bad enough to not vote, not phone bank, not donate, not knock on doors, or some combination thereof....

      The time to take a stand was a year ago...instead the majority of Democrats (public and politicians) decided capitulation and appeasement was a better path.

      "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

      by justmy2 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:44:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The problem is that he either needs to (3+ / 0-)

    win more conservatives or hope that fewer people stop self-identifying as conservatives.

    Or pad his lead amongst moderates even further.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:43:02 AM PST

    •  Have to learn to deal w/ those less progressive (0+ / 0-)

      I see that part of the problem is that too many people who claim to be Progressives do not tolerate well anyone who doesn't agree that they have all the right answers.

      Isn't it ironic that President Obama just happens to do less well with many of the same people who Progressives dislike, but proved in 2008 they weren't wholly owned by the Republican Party?

      We should also be mindful that the eventual Republican nominee is going to be a defective candidate in the general election. That fact isn't reflected in the polling.

      "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ...Bertrand Russell

      by sebastianguy99 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 01:41:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  exactly "independents" are simply the indecisive (0+ / 0-)

    and moderates attempt to split the differences; not identical or mutually exclusive.

    Präsidentenelf-maßschach;Warning-Some Snark Above;Cascadia Lives

    by annieli on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:43:57 AM PST

  •  EXCELLENT work. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli
  •  When top Dems refer to the "center" (8+ / 0-)
    They mean the corporate consensus.  Obama will contine moving toward the "center" whether he needs to or not.

    If your issue is still Democrat vs. Republican, you've been punked by the Oligarchy.

    by MrJayTee on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:44:45 AM PST

  •  Tell the President that... (0+ / 0-)

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:45:00 AM PST

  •  Obama doesn't need to move to the Center (0+ / 0-)

    That's good.

    Because there is no such thing.


    In 21st Century America, guns are still considered safer than marijuana.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:45:15 AM PST

  •  Isn't the *some way* to get the President (0+ / 0-)

    to read and comprehend this information?

    He's a smart, pragmatic, logical guy.  All he has to do is spend a little quality time with us on the Professional Left.

    People don't listen to propaganda because they think it's true. They listen because they wish it was true.

    by thenekkidtruth on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:45:52 AM PST

  •  As a long-time self-described moderate here, (4+ / 0-)

    this is no surprise.  Let's get real, Obama IS a moderate.  Of course, moderates like him. No duh.

    No, he doesn't have to "move" right -- (moving right is NOT moving to the center.)  Any move right is AWAY from the center and towards right side of center.

    The progressives should and will keep making their case.  The public is listening and willing to move left (slightly) to promote our general welfare.

    The government CAN work for people.  We CAN govern ourselves without corporate obstructionism -- if we hold ourselves to a high standard.

    Onwards!

  •  And the takeaway: (0+ / 0-)

    Obama needs to move to the right.

    Because, hey, people on the teevee told me so.

  •  The President is not moving to the center (5+ / 0-)

    because of voters.  The very idea is absurd.  He is moving toward the center because the powers that be want him there.  It's all about the money.

    I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

    by JustJennifer on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:48:23 AM PST

    •  He's not moving toward the center at all... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Egalitare

      ...he has virtually always occupied the center. And by "center" I mean in the relative sense of the field of political play where two opposing sides overlap to some degree and a compromise bill can be worked out. That, of course, involves big banks and moneyed interests, but the notion that the Rothschilds and Bilderbergs paid him a visit during lunch and that's how the current policy set was decided. Laughable. Barack Obama has been close to the big banks since political time out of mind and for pragmatic centrist solutions for longer.

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:53:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ok, (0+ / 0-)

        I agree with you there.  I truly hate to participate in the bashing of the President but I think it is pretty clear that he ran on a platform of "something different" and as it turns out that isn't exactly the case.  Maybe he was always in the center but he wasn't quite as transparent about it during the election.

        I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

        by JustJennifer on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:03:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Eh... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Imhotepsings

          ...I think he was transparently about it during the election. His connection to big banks and to "centrist" ideas was pretty well known. What has been a surprise is the extent to which his White House has been populated by Clinton's folks. That wasn't really part of the Obama platform at ALL -- precisely the opposite -- even if in retrospect one should have wondered where his staff was going to come from if not Clinton's folks.

          it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

          by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:20:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It was fairly obvious to me (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            laker

            But I will venture a guess and say it wasn't obvious to the majority of voters.

            How many posts have we seen from people who talk about wearing out their shoes and donating every dime they could to get him elected?  I doubt those people thought they were hustling for the banks and Wall Street.  The facts were quickly drowned out by the meme of hope and change.  They played on people's emotions and people got burned.

            I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

            by JustJennifer on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:24:45 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  I would be willing to be if you look back (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Imhotepsings

    at most polls. Obama has always been winning moderates and losing indys.

    This isnt exactly news. I am sure those numbers have improved some as have his numbers generally over the last few months.

  •  And, lest the simple facts get lost in the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FogCityJohn, laker
    shuffle...

    Most moves to the center will cost jobs.

    It really is an either or.

    "It is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence"

    by JesseCW on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:52:43 AM PST

  •  What's wrong with being a moderate? (5+ / 0-)

    I consider myself moderate by which I mean sometimes not doing the exact "right" thing all the time.

    In a perfect world I would ride my bike everywhere, grow my own vegetables, use only energy efficient lighting (low wattage), recycle everything possible, quit using plastic bags completely, eat healthy, quit smoking.

    In the real world I drive my car everywhere, buy vegetables, use a few energy efficient bulbs, recycle aluminum cans and newspapers only (that's all that can be done locally), buy only what I can afford, use cloth bags at the grocery store and plastic garbage bags, sometimes charge things I want and can't afford, eat healthy a couple of days a week, think about quitting smoking.

    I don't expect our government to be more perfect than I am.

    Our President is teh awesome!

    by GMFORD on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:55:43 AM PST

    •  I have met my doppleganger. n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GMFORD, Imhotepsings
    •  Libs hate us, conservative hate us. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GMFORD, Egalitare
    •  As a "Recovering Moderate"... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GMFORD, Imhotepsings

      ...I fully understand where you're coming from. Just because I'm  steadily morphing into Social Democrat doesn't blind me to realities of the current electoral landscape.

      I recognize that POTUS is pretty solidly Moderate with faint Progressive sympathies, and I accept that. What we as Progressives failed to do was to understand that he could not lead the rhetorical charge to some update/upgrade of the New Deal. We need to make that case - not just this coming election cycle but for a much longer haul: 3-5 consecutive cycles, especially now that we napped during the election cycle that determined redistricting.

      The so-called "rising tide" is lifting only yachts.

      by Egalitare on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:56:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed. (0+ / 0-)

        Except for the part about napping during last cycle.  I worked my butt off the entire year and we were able to help elect Gov. Hickenlooper and keep Senator Bennet (Colo.) but sadly lost Rep. Salazar (he was a Blue Dog but he's one of us) although he did win our county.  It was a mixed bag but could have been worse.

        But you're right, for now we have to dance with the dates we brung (next year hopefully we'll attract better dates).  It's a matter of doing the best we can with what we have to work with.  I think, for the most part, that's what Obama, Reid and Pelosi have been doing and I appreciate that.

        Our President is teh awesome!

        by GMFORD on Thu Jan 20, 2011 at 08:51:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent post. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Predictor

    Trumka: "Absolutely Insane" to Extend Tax Cuts for Millionaires

    by TomP on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:55:47 AM PST

  •  Release (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brooklynbadboy, Imhotepsings

    all the data.  It is probably sitting in an access db or some ther SQL database.

    I do have access to detailed data from exit polls via the Roper Center - but I have had to pay for it. It was not cheap.   Some pollsters release significant cross-tabs, but you can't do you own analysis unless you have the data.

    I am particularly interested in time series plots of the data against external variables that could be done against this data, though the sample size in the subgroups gets small.  Fo example, I would like to build a multi-variable model of approval ratings based on regional changes in unemployment, consumer confidence and GD growth.

    The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

    by fladem on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:56:06 AM PST

  •  But I wish he'd do that anyways . .. . (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester

    Obama does not need to move to the center

    Seriously, it'd be the first time in my lifetime (which is quite some time!!) that any leftwards movement would have taken place at the presidential level .. .

  •  The President doesn't have to move to the center (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester

    he wants to move to the center.  More obvious every day.

    Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day. Harry Truman

    by temptxan on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 10:58:05 AM PST

  •  He does need to move to the center (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    from his position of center/right.
    One can only hope.

    I dread the SOTU address.

    This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

    by Agathena on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:01:27 AM PST

  •  Obama won moderates 61-39 in 2008. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Imhotepsings, laker

    So, yes, he does have to recapture some lost moderates--about 8 percent of them.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:01:53 AM PST

  •  A Bit Late Aren't You? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RadicalRoadRat, Imhotepsings

    Obama moved to the center the day after he was elected-- if not before.

    Looks like you've bought into the reich wing echo chamber baloney: "Obama is a radical leftist/Marxist".

    the metric for HCR? the plan passed by the democrats is more or less the same plan passed by Massuchessetts when Romney was governor... i.e. not single payer, no robust public option.

    Funny, I don't hear many referring to Mitt Romney as a "radical leftist/Marxist".

    "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

    by Superpole on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:03:51 AM PST

  •  This lends credence to my theory (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, Imhotepsings

    that many "independents" are really just republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves such. And on the furthest end of the spectrum, those rabid tea party types don't identify themselves as "republican" either.

    And there's that smidgen of liberal independents, the Ralph Naderites, etc.

    "Independent" encompasses an odd cross-section of ideologies. Calling them the middle is a misnomer.

  •  I haven't double checked the numbers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Imhotepsings

    But from what I have seen lately, Obama is winning progressives by an even larger margin, so by your argument, there is even less reason to tack left.

    Just sayin'

    There is also the chance, that he is actually hitting the sweet spot already.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:05:29 AM PST

  •  You're barking up the wrong tree, badboy... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Imhotepsings

    Weekly polls are taken weekly because they CHANGE. To put stock in a poll immediately after Obama's Tucson speech is not indicative of anything. Boehner's approval ratings have shot up 20-some points. Is THAT indicative moderates think his policies are great? I doubt it.

  •  He's already to the right of center. (0+ / 0-)
  •  Yes he does, for campaign cash. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    Us poor slogs that gave more than what we could afford to get Obama elected won’t have two nickels to rub together by the time Nov 2012 gets here. That’s what this building consensus and finding common ground B$ is all about, getting campaign cash for 2012 (from corporate interests, private healthcare industrial complex, big banks etc.).

  •  I'd love to have a study (0+ / 0-)

    to determine the disparities in testosterone levels between conservatives and liberals.

    I'm not afraid of guns! I'm afraid of the people that obsess over owning them.

    by Detroit Mark on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:07:46 AM PST

  •  BY the way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brooklynbadboy

    you have completely misunderstood margin for error.

    The MOE on the Midwestern-subgroup in far higher than 3.1%.  

    The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

    by fladem on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:09:05 AM PST

  •  Independents too embarassed to admit to the R (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Imhotepsings

    label.  That is what the poll tells me.

    People think they are "holding their politicians hostage" with the independent thing.  

  •  It's irrelevant (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    If by November 2012 unemployment is below 7% Obama is a two term president. Otherwise he's probably not.

    All these polls are just mental masturbation. if you correlate the unemployment with approval numbers there is probably an exact inverse correlation.

    •  Speaking of two terms (0+ / 0-)

      I find myself highly disturbed by Cheney's recent proclamation that Obama is a one term President.  Is he just spouting the party line, or does he know something?  

      I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

      by JustJennifer on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:16:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Others have put the number at 8.5 percent... (0+ / 0-)

      ...or so, but I think your general point is good. Although I'll note that if the GOP candidate is perceived as presenting policies that will reduce jobs that could negate the absolute number of unemployed.

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:25:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obligatory smartass comment. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    ....
    Of course he needs to move to the center.  Which means moving to the left.
    ....

    Yeah, it's a smartass comment, but I also think it's correct.  However, my definition of left includes being for peace, for shutting down the MIC, for civil liberties, for restraints on executive power, for progressive taxation.  

    Obama's left of Demint, left of Ben Nelson (I think) but I want more.  Much more.

    I am become Man, the destroyer of worlds

    by tle on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:11:15 AM PST

  •  then why will he govern from the right ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    It's what he's been doing.  Important decisions are for the (not crazy) right, crumbs for the left.

    I'd be interested in a rigorous analysis of why he will govern from the right in spite of this polling.

    big badda boom : GRB 080913

    by squarewheel on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:13:08 AM PST

  •  Let's be honest here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Diebold Hacker, laker

    The only reason it appears that the President is moving anywhere is because of the way he presented himself during the election.  His team surveyed the political landscape and realized their best way to win was to present a candidate who was "not going to be Clinton's third term" and "change you can believe in".  

    And what happened after the election?  Hmmm....

    I am going to go ahead and say 90% of the Obama drama has been created by this very fact.  People expected one thing and got another.  In many ways this situation has hurt the party far more than it has helped.

    I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

    by JustJennifer on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:15:27 AM PST

  •  These numbers reflect obvious facts... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Addison, laker
    ...that the Village political discussion spends all its time ignoring or obfuscating:  Obama is a moderate president who, unsurprisingly, appeals much more to moderates than liberals or conservatives.

    The cry that a President must move to the "center" is nothing but a reflex among the Village talkingheads....though it's only made when a Democrat is in office. And, of course, "moving to the center" is very thin code for "moving to the right."

  •  Thanks for being interested (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, sebastianguy99

    and competent enough to do this.  Interesting results, nothing I've heard before.

    I consider myself to be a functional Moderate - IOW, do what you have to do to get closest to what's best - with the soul of a raging liberal.  

    In my dream world no one carries guns, and I mean no one.  Poverty is an embarrassing historical aberration.  Public health care, public education through post-grad, public service are all givens.  Nice people prefer not to remember the days when the rape of Mother Earth was acceptable, but they learn about it to prevent them from repeating it.  ZPG is an unquestioned and firm policy, not an edict, but a common-sense personal commitment.  There's more, but I can't go there too long without getting sad.

    I'd "poll" as a Moderate, and cheer to see the whole country move to the left.  I don't worry so much about whether or not President Obama would favor that.  What's he's doing under the radar is all I need to see to reassure me about who I voted for.    

    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

    by I love OCD on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:25:07 AM PST

    •  Well said. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      I love OCD

      I still have trouble reconciling the idea that we have the best, most popular, solutions yet President Obama is our only hope for generations to come.

      If we are right, and we work hard, President Obama is merely the start. I fear however that we aren't doing the work needed, especially at the local and state level developing good candidates that will run good and tough campaigns.

      "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ...Bertrand Russell

      by sebastianguy99 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 01:46:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I hope he's not the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sebastianguy99

        only hope, we need about a million hopes for the future, and you are absolutely right that we need to get really busy locally.  I live in a town where solar power and water catchment are getting more and more common, without any action from higher up.  It's a tiny town in Central Texas (OMFG), and we're keeping Big Box stores and chains out, and stopping rampant development by being active and participating citizens.  

        None of this would happen if we waited for policies from the State or the Feds.  We draw all water from an aquifer, and the RE developers are sucking it dry and selling to other counties.  If everyone in this area got pissed and involved that would never happen.  Rick Perry won't stop it, but my neighbors and I can.

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 02:30:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have the Wind Power plan from Reliant (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          I love OCD

          It's a bit more, but not as much as it use to be. I'm happy to have the option. Good for you folks out there getting things done despite it being hard.

          Just more proof that being surrounded by conservatives doesn't mean we can't make progress.

          "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ...Bertrand Russell

          by sebastianguy99 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 04:47:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  90% of independents I know are conservatives (3+ / 0-)

    And they vote republican. Maybe that is a regional thing, but when someone claims to be and independent and I ask them when was the last time they voted for a Democrat they say "uh...".

    O great creator of being grant us one more hour to perform our art and perfect our lives. ::: Jim Morrison :::

    by Kevanlove on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:33:27 AM PST

    •  Independents strike me as either not that bright (0+ / 0-)

      or on some ego trip about being "principled". I say bullshit on that principled crap. If you can't look at the two parties and see which one better represents decent human values and which one is for the rich, then you're either a dumbass, or gutless, or both.

      I know there are independent liberals, but honestly, I cannot see that they are proving or solving a goddamn thing by rejecting the Dem party name.

      Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

      by JTinDC on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:41:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I get a "superiority" vibe often (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JTinDC

        Like not belonging to a party means the are somehow not "bought" or something. Like they are independent thinkers and yet they always vote for republicans.
        And 90% of the 90% seem to be really uninformed and usually one issue voters.

        They don't seem to have any philosophy of what a government should be.

        O great creator of being grant us one more hour to perform our art and perfect our lives. ::: Jim Morrison :::

        by Kevanlove on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 07:46:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not a moderate. I'm a bleeding heart liberal (4+ / 0-)

    from top to bottom and I LOVE THIS PRESIDENT!  I admire his strength, his tenacity, his perserverence, his fortitude, his intelligence, his leadership, his insight, his parenting, his eloquence, his elegance, his athleticism, his humor.  EVERYTHING.  

    The entire corporate media hounding of this man has done very little to harm him in the eyes of the general public because the majority of Americans aren't that easily duped when they can see his accomplishments right in front of their faces.

    IMHO, this country is beyond lucky to have this guy leading at this particular moment in our history.  Fear/hate notwithstanding, he'll easily win a second term and do even more good for average Americans than he's done already.

    LIVE LONG AND STRONG, MR. PRESIDENT and thanks!

    Blatant Congressional disrespect for a sitting president is a subtle form of treason.

    by Little Lulu on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:33:33 AM PST

    •  Very well stated Little Lulu. (3+ / 0-)
    •  "accomplishments" for "average Americans"? (0+ / 0-)

      I don't mean to be a buzzkill for you, but I'd like to know what you think Obama has done for average Americans that any other Democratic President wouldn't have done, which is what it would take for us to be lucky to have him. (In addition, I'm sure you would find more than a few hundred DKos denizens who will disagree that he has done anything for average Americans.) He hasn't taken what actions he could have taken to help anybody get a new job so far, he has refused to enlist the help of anyone to his left in an official capacity, save Elizabeth Warren (and she is fairly hamstrung in what she can do), and even caved on much he campaigned for that could have helped many, if not most, Americans.
      His healthcare "reform" is weak sauce for the vast majority of people, and that was the best thing he's pushed for. I don't think you really are a bleeding heart liberal, because if you were, you would be sickened by our continued lurch rightward while he has been President instead of thankful. He's not using his considerable powers or position to help the average American in the least, to my 48-year-old eyes . . .

      •  Did you want a short list of accomplishments for (0+ / 0-)

        average Americans?  Here you go, courtesy of V.P. Biden:

        ...historic health insurance reform ... Wall Street reform ... and the end of combat operations in Iraq, which brought more than 100,000 troops home ... the Recovery Act, which saved and created more than 3 million jobs ... we made critical investments in General Motors and Chrysler, saving tens of thousands of jobs ... spurring a rebirth of the American car industry .. we wrote into law student loan reform and credit card reform, which ended the worst abuses of the banking industries and are making lending fair for American families ... we put two new Supreme Court justices on the bench – Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, who bring rich and diverse experience to the Court ... we finally repealed "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell"

        Sorry if that's a buzz-kill for your meme... not!

        Blatant Congressional disrespect for a sitting president is a subtle form of treason.

        by Little Lulu on Fri Jan 21, 2011 at 08:42:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Jobs, Jobs, and Jobs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brooklynbadboy, laker

    That is what accounts for Obama's low numbers in the Midwest. We are among whose ass is kicked the hardest.

    If jobs come back, Obama will win. If not, he'll win if the Republicans beat themselves with a Palin.

    Support Fair Trade. Buy American! Keep jobs at home. Political Compass Economy -6.62, Social -4.82

    by John Lane on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 11:53:04 AM PST

  •  This isnt news... (0+ / 0-)

    moderates and independents aren't synonyms. Moderates are firmly middle of the road...self-identified Independents can be moderate, but can also be fringe.

  •  To the center? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    The title of this post accepts the right-wing meme that Obama is left-of-center, and hence that his moving to the center would constitute a move to the right.  For those of us who see Obama as essentially conservative, a move to the center would be a move left - toward single-payer, ending the wars, taxing the rich, etc.

    •  I note in the piece, (0+ / 0-)

      that this is Washington's Conventional Wisdom which is the same thing as a right-wing meme.

      My point is that if anything, Obama needs to firm up his support on the left. But that the main group of so-called moderates are mostly Democrats and that he is already winning them. There isn't any more "centering" he can do because he is already winning that bunch.

      The only place for him to go, if it wants to, is to the right where the effort will prove futile. Only reason he has soft support among a subset of moderates that count (midwestern ones) is because of Jobs, not his ideology.

      •  Something I don't understand (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sebastianguy99

        On the one hand, you say he needs to firm up his support on the left; on the other, that the only place for him to go "if it wants to" (do you mean if HE wants to?) is to the right.  How firm up his support on the left without moving to the left? (Which, as I see it, constitutes moving from right of center - where he is now - to center.)

        •  I'd say that in both cases, (0+ / 0-)

          from his weakness with midwestern indepedents to his minor problem with independent lefties, is mainly Jobs. My point is that he doesn't need to move much in either direction, but he could sort of tack left a bit. The main thing he needs to do is focus on jobs and pretty much nothing more. His ideological positioning is right on target.

  •  "Democrat X needs to move to the center"... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    ...is about as valid as the other constant refrain we hear -- that tax cuts can fix any problem. The only thing either is good for is getting a job as a pundit.

    Thwarting conservatives since 1978.

    by wiscmass on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:01:50 PM PST

  •  ...because he is already at the center? (0+ / 0-)

    Obama does not need to move to the center

    "The deflation of the progressives was done on purpose by the White House staff. It was a terrible mistake." -- Howard Dean

    by just some lurker guy on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:03:10 PM PST

  •  I hope Obama's political people (0+ / 0-)

    know what they are doing because something has to change to get the young kids back. I know it's anecdotal, but these kids expected CHANGE. They bought into it and are not impressed with the corporations running the country. Many of them will not vote for Obama again as an emotional response to punish him for not producing change.  In the WH they seem kind of tone deaf to the middle class issues but they better come up with something. Saying you are better than the other party is not going to do it this time. The young kids are way more likely to go Green or other 3rd party to make a statement. I hope they do some polling on that.

  •  I'd love it if he moved toward the center! (0+ / 0-)

    That would be a great improvement.

    How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

    by Diebold Hacker on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:24:54 PM PST

    •  troll or snark? (0+ / 0-)

      or do you mean you think he's right of center?

      Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

      by JTinDC on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:33:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Snark, but still true. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        laker

        ..unfortunately.

        This is the most liberal administration we will likely ever see. And it's just not going to be good enough. Our train is jumping the tracks and heading off the cliff. But at least we get tiny little incremental changes! YAY!

        How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

        by Diebold Hacker on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:43:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Need to make sure Plouffe sees this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fish in Illinois

    and hope he's smarter than fucking Axelrod or Rahm.

    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

    by JTinDC on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 12:31:48 PM PST

  •  Here in the Midwest, the job issue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fish in Illinois

    is the big issue. Of about 30 college kids I know, only one got a job in their area and it wasn't very high wage.  All the others are in very low wage jobs, mostly service. There are no jobs. And for us older folk,  if you can't sell your house, you can't move to another city where there are more jobs. Obama has lousy PR people and lousy economic people. Can they change that? I don't know.

    •  Jobs Jobs Jobs (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      laker

      I was born and raised in Rockford Illinois, a place with 20 percent unemployment. Keep in mind that is only counting people that are looking for work. We have a 50 percent High School dropout rate and only about 30 percent of the population is college educated. It may be too late for us, but people are stuck here. I do feel many would be willing to move if they knew they could find work, but right now they cannot find that work because it does not exist.

      I am lucky enough that I was able to move away, however I will never forget my hometown as my family lives there.

      If the GOP was smart, they would have introduced a job creation bill today, instead they basically put on a play.

      Getting clean is the easy part, now comes life - Waylon

      by USDnB on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 01:39:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  He already governs center-left (0+ / 0-)

    No need for him to move, and I'm not sure that's what he's doing. If you look at his latest gesture, the WSJ Op-Ed from a couple of days ago, he doesn't talk about shutting down agencies or pulling their teeth - that's what Republicans would do. He's just making some happy talk about reviewing regulations to eliminate redundancy and confusion. If conservatives want to look at that as a move to the right, let them. Or if they don't take the bait, it will at least give him some talking points when they start whining about regulatory "reform," as they always do.

    It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness - Eleanor Roosevelt

    by Fish in Illinois on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 01:31:23 PM PST

  •  Obama has always been a center-left Politician (0+ / 0-)

    That is what he will be. Is he perfect? Of course not. Have I been disappointed with some of the decisions? Sure. But he is electable and far better than any alternative.

    We have to start on the local level, currently a Democratic Socialist or Green candidate can not be elected President. That is the current reality that we have to deal with. Crap, after the last eight years the fact that Obama is getting things done makes me happy. I guess if you thought you were voting for some ultra progressive candidate you would be disappointed but I guess I knew what I was getting.

    The real problem has been the lack of fight coming from the Democratic party, the WH is not going to take actions when they know they cannot count on support from the party. Now, it looks like the Democratic party is starting to put up a fight and we are seeing small results (look at the recent Health Care polls), hopefully this continues.

    I will be voting for Obama in 2012, you can count on that. At the very least we will have someone who is very intelligent and is well liked around the globe.

    Getting clean is the easy part, now comes life - Waylon

    by USDnB on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 01:36:51 PM PST

  •  President Obama needs to do whatever it takes. (0+ / 0-)

    Yep, I know that is an alien concept to many here, but it's a truth the other side seems to understand and we have miles to go.

    Republicans give their nominees the latitude to make liberal-sounding promises during the general campaign in order to win (which they inevitably do not fulfill), and we need to prepare ourselves to give President Obama the same leeway.

    Winning the liberal vote isn't enough to win any more than winning the conservative vote. If we insist on purity(no reaching out to those less Progressive, sometimes on their terms) then we make things easy for the Republican nominee. Shame on us.

    In order to be elected POTUS, a nominee needs to win a number of votes from people who are either more liberal (for a Republican), or more conservative (for a Dem). That's just basic electoral math. Denial may feel good, but some of us would rather win.

    "Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." ...Bertrand Russell

    by sebastianguy99 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 02:03:08 PM PST

  •  Thank you for doing the MSM's work (0+ / 0-)
    Seriously - good stuff, which will now disappear into the ether.
  •  It's not about "needing" to move to the center. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laker

    It's not about "needing" to move to the center -- it's that the Village is pushing him to (because they can't stand Democrats being Democrats), and that Obama has all the cover he needs to make that move. If he didn't want to move right, he wouldn't do it.

    And I'd like to see a moratorium on the phrase "moving to the center" -- because it's really about two separate, non-center-related things: moving right, and moving away from positions that enjoy majority support to those that will earn a majority of financial support.

    Politico: Because Republicans need something to jerk off to.

    by Christopher on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 03:46:59 PM PST

  •  Sometime in the future we have to (0+ / 0-)

    face up to the fact that if the Dem party doesn't come back and actually work for Dem policies then some people will go to a third party and we'll have several election cycles where it won't be pretty; it'll be messy, but it will be inevitable unless the  party gets pushed left from within. And the people who like money and power at the top don't want things to change. Because, you know, we have to vote Democrat now no matter what because we have nowhere else to go, right?

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