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I'm so unbelievably sick of occupy acting like it has a monopoly on the terminology they kind of coined (really just adopted).
You can't claim to be the 99%, then say that 98% of the 99% can't use the term because it's somehow co-opting occupy.
That's childish hypocrisy and elitism.
Be glad that people are running with it and using it.
Is everybody that will use it perfect? Will they always please you?
No.
But Occupy isn't the judge of the whole 99%, they are just a part of it.
Nobody owns a concept.
You can't lay claim to solidarity.
Did somebody in move on say some dumb stuff about occupy?
Could be.
But if Occupy thinks it has a right to tell others that they can't rise up and represent themselves as the 99% which they are a part of... Then Occupy is dead (dead wrong, that is).

Where do you get off acting like you own the idea of the 99%?

So a bunch of people are organizing and planning actions using some ideas that you used.
So you don't agree with everything they say or do.
Maybe you inspired them to some extent.

Sounds familiar.

You might not agree with everything they say but you have no right to tell them to be silent.
They might use terms you used and sing songs you sang and work with concepts you worked on...
They might do all that and get some of it wrong.
But you DO NOT try to delegitimize their movement and you DO NOT EVER tell them that they have no right to those ideas.
Those ideas do not belong to you either.
They belong to all of us.

You don't see the Wisconsin uprising pulling that nonsense with occupy, do you?
Grow up.

Sincerely,
A member of the Wisconsin Uprising

p.s. SHAME!!

p.p.s I know not all Occupiers are taking this stance. I speak harshly only to those who are. As for the rest, the good ones, the majority... Slap those fools down (figuratively, of course), just like I would if I saw someone in the WI uprising talking nonsense about Occupy. Power to the people! Occupy solidarity!

5:15 PM PT: People have requested references to the articles and statements I'm responding to... Here are a couple:

http://www.adbusters.org/...

http://www.counterpunch.org/...

And here is a good one from the other side of things:

http://tech.nycga.net/...


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Comment Preferences

  •  I've been working a lot (4+ / 0-)

    kind of out of the loop. Do you have any links or anything to point out some of this:

    if Occupy thinks it has a right to tell others that they can't rise up and represent themselves as the 99% which they are a part of... Then Occupy is dead (dead wrong, that is).
    But you DO NOT try to delegitimize their movement and you DO NOT EVER tell them that they have no right to those ideas.
    Where do you get off acting like you own the idea of the 99%?
    you have no right to tell them to be silent.
    Before my work week from hell I had not seen anything like that.

    Here is the truth: The Earth is round; Saddam Hussein did not attack us on 9/11; Elvis is dead; Obama was born in the United States; and the climate crisis is real. It is time to act. - Al Gore

    by Burned on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 04:57:57 PM PDT

  •  Dig (3+ / 0-)

    A leaderless group says we are all leaders. In fact someone tells you, them, it, that you can't occupy in your own way and time are hypocrites

  •  PS (4+ / 0-)

    Mic check: whose occupation? Our(including you) occupation!
    Anyway Wisconsin was the inspiration for occupy

  •  Just (0+ / 0-)

    Do what you will do - who can say.?

  •  I'm OK with what AdBusters are saying, if (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GeoffT

    they are encouraging folks not to enable the largely spineless crop of national-level Dems by donating to, say, the DCCC or DSCC.  I'm also OK with the idea of AdBusters and Occupy stating that the movement will not be co-opted by the likes of MoveOn.org (I'm a member of MoveOn, and I also subscribe to AdBusters), which--while well-meaning--has been largely ineffectual at facilitating real progressive change.

    By aggressively putting forth their vision of what the Occupy movement should stand for, and by defiantly challenging people to decide whether national parties or older-guard liberal organizations will get to continue to call the shots, top-down style, AdBusters has pissed people off.  That is a GOOD thing.  People need to get pissed off, and need to decide whether a system in which the "left-most" of the two parties has now moved rightward of where the Republican Party was in the early 1970s (I'm old enough to remember), is a proper recipient of their support.  Being old enough to remember that period, I can tell you that the pale, drawn (yet corpulent thanks to corporate cash) version of today is utterly incapable of facilitating anything even remotely resembling the kind of change that we need to survive as a species.

    Take global warming as an example:  if ever there was a burning issue that requires drastic, immediate, transformative change, it is this one.  Anyone who doesn't recognize this has their head buried deep in the sand.  Anyone privy to the kind of  data to which our elected Democrats (forget the Republicans, everyone expects them to be evil, greedy and short-sighted) are, and still doesn't do everything in their considerable power to prevent the impending climate catastrophe, is just plain evil.  And that describes the majority of elected "Democrats" at the national level.  Many of us in 2008 actually had some hope that candidate Obama would be a transformative President Obama on this issue.  Turns out, not so much--and it's not his "fault"; the system is designed to produce elected officials who buy the standard meme and support incrementalism.  On this issue alone, we will incrementalize into a catastrophe on a scale that the modern human-occupied Earth has never seen before.

    Florence Reese had it right.  It is time to decide "which side are you on"?  The Occupy and AdBusters folks are pushing people to answer that question.

  •  Intelligent people come up with ... (0+ / 0-)

    original ideas.  Unintelligent people copy the ideas of others because that's all they're capable of doing.  It's a pity they don't understand how much they embarrass themselves by doing so, but they lack the mental capacity to do otherwise.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

    by Neuroptimalian on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 08:25:01 PM PDT

  •  where to begin (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis, joe wobblie

    Who is saying MoveOn et al must "be silent"?  Who is telling "that they have no right to those ideas"?  What we are saying is that they should have TALKED TO the Occupy GAs.  We don't trust the Democratic Party front-groups and this is exactly why.  But if they had made clear proposals on what appears to be actually a pretty solid training then we could certainly have worked together.

    Occupy does not own the "idea of the 99%" but that is Occupy language and Occupy energy.  For MoveOn and Democratic-affiliated groups to use it is a slap in the face to the tens of thousands of people who participate/d in Occupy specifically because it's not just another Democrat GOTV waste of time.

    As for Wisconsin, speaking as someone who occupied the Capitol until my back was sore from sleeping on marble, the reason the radicals didn't complain about the massive co-optation was because we were completely unorganized, and we were totally expecting it (and, unfortunately, viewed it as largely inevitable) so complaining would have just felt futile.  Not that that's stopped me from complaining, nor did it stop less than two dozen IWW members from propagating the idea of the General Strike, which nearly occurred and was the favored next step by many on-the-ground citizens, particularly during the takeover the night the collective bargaining bill was passed.

    You say people in Wisconsin shouldn't talk nonsense about Occupy, but I was repeatedly an eyewitness to Brett Hulsey urging us to end the occupation of the Capitol building.  He was instrumental in ending it on March 4 in particular, when he was granted access to a stair protected by police in order to tell the mob to leave- what conversation allowed him to that spot, I wonder?  "Let me up there, I'll get them out!"

    Then, as now, the Democrats let us do all the work, and then they swoop in with massive budgets, drown us out with slick marketing and confuse people by stealing our words and imagery, and drive all the energy into their election campaigns.

    •  yes, where to begin (0+ / 0-)
      What we are saying is that they should have TALKED TO the Occupy GAs.  We don't trust the Democratic Party front-groups and this is exactly why.
      And we Democrats don't trust you or like you either and see  no reason why we should include you in our affairs. Do you check with us before you do what you do?
      There's millions and millons of us and a few thousand of you. we want no input from you---Occupy--- at all, just as you want none from us. How can you dislike us as much as you do and still be arrogant enough to say we should consult with you
      Occupy does not own the "idea of the 99%" but that is Occupy language and Occupy energy.
      no, its not, you just say it is. occupy only started 7 months ago and you think you invented protest. The concepts you want to claim you invented were around long before Occupy. you don't own the language, nor the concept of protesting
      Then, as now, the Democrats let us do all the work, and then they swoop in with massive budgets, drown us out with slick marketing and confuse people by stealing our words and imagery, and drive all the energy into their election campaigns.
      How deluded can you be? the Democrats were carrying water for liberal causes for decades before Occupy even existed. You show up for 7 monhts and think its all bout you. Youve done nothing at all for us  but make us look bad by association. We don't give a flying fuck what Occupy does because, as you go to great pains to point out, we are not you and---thank God---you are not us.
      You go your way, we'll go ours, we need nothing youve got
      But if they had made clear proposals on what appears to be actually a pretty solid training then we could certainly have worked together.
      we don't need you, we don't like you, we don't want you as part of what we do and I know you feel the same about us.so why all this whining about how we don't consult with you?
      Let Occupy continue with its ineffectual protests and its arrogant assumptions that they define politics or protest in America. Democrats are going to do what we always do---fight the republicans and we need nothing from you or occupy at all.

      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Thu Apr 12, 2012 at 09:10:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe wobblie
        Do you check with us before you do what you do?
        Occupy hasn't tried to co-opt any of MoveOn's campaigns.
        you think you invented protest.
        That is not fucking what I said.
        The concepts you want to claim you invented were around long before Occupy.
        Really, the phrase "the 99%" was a meme before last September?  Really?
        We don't give a flying fuck what Occupy does
        Kind of hard to believe in context, which is a MoveOn-lead co-optation attempt of Occupy.
        •  lets deal with your first comment (0+ / 0-)
          What we are saying is that they should have TALKED TO the Occupy GAs.  We don't trust the Democratic Party front-groups and this is exactly why.  But if they had made clear proposals on what appears to be actually a pretty solid training then we could certainly have worked together.
          I assume this is the crux of what youre saying: that Move on and other "Democratic front groups" should have TALKED (your emphasis) to Occupy GAs.
          And I ask----why? You don't like the Democratic PArty, you don't trust its leaders and youre ZERO help in getting our candidates elected. why sbould we Democrats seek Occupy out for consultation when you NEVER seek us out for consultation? The smug arrogance in that statement---as if you had something we wanted---is breathtaking. Got news for you: Occupy has nothing we Democrats need or want and not much America needs or wants either.
          Why is this hard for you to believe: most Democrats don't LIKE Occupy. We don't want Occupy in our inner circles making policy or influencing  voters in our name. we don't need your black bloc or your no snitching rule. You can livestream Democratic functions but not Occupy---which is supposed to want transparency.....in others.

          As I said, don't look to Democrats to consult with you before we do stuff. Its an election year and we Democrats are trying to win elections and Occupy is just increasingly isolating itself and making itself irrelevant, existing largely now only on the internet. You only Occupy sites like this one
          You even have to use sites like this one---supposedly about getting Democrats elected---to spread you message because Occupy sites are just echo chambers of the .0001% talking to itself. So forget about us stealing your vibe, Occupy uses democratic sites as your speaking platforms.

          We don't give a flying fuck what Occupy does
           Kind of hard to believe in context, which is a MoveOn-lead co-optation attempt of Occupy.
          Its only so in your mind. Why does what we Democrats do have to be all about you? We were doing our thing for decades and decades before Occupy even existed.  You are not as important to us as you delude yourself into thinking. If Occupy wasn't there we'd be doing the same exact thing.
          people were talking about income inequality i.e. "the 99%" long before Occupy was even dreamed of. Can I see your copyright on "the 99%?"? otherwise, for someone who doesn't believe in the intellectual property of others, you sure are amazingly selfish.

          I don't expect I'll change your mind, but you may start to understand why Occupy is starting to get pushback from democrats. or  not.
          The reason is youre no more help to us than the Republicans are and you don't intend to be. No wonder we're not going to talk to you about much.

          Happy just to be alive

          by exlrrp on Fri Apr 13, 2012 at 07:40:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Interesting article (0+ / 0-)

            right here

            Where there was tear gas at 14th and Broadway in Oakland just months ago, there's now upscale chocolate being made straight from the cocoa bean.

            Where there were masked vandals and riot police, a swank cafe now bills "zero carbon footprint" beer - delivered by bicycle from a local brewery.

            So despite all of Occupy Oaklands best efforts, Oakland is starting to boom again. thats nice to hear, I'v always loved Oakland.
            "To say the downtown Oakland community is so fragile that Occupy Oakland was going to bring it down is belittling and shortsighted. It doesn't understand the big picture."
            And thats not the only thing that doesn't get the Big Picture

            Happy just to be alive

            by exlrrp on Fri Apr 13, 2012 at 08:03:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joe wobblie
            And I ask----why? You don't like the Democratic PArty, you don't trust its leaders and youre ZERO help in getting our candidates elected. why sbould we Democrats seek Occupy out for consultation when you NEVER seek us out for consultation?
            Because while Occupy has been more or less ambivalent toward the Democrats, to try to co-opt is a hostile act.
            Got news for you: Occupy has nothing we Democrats need or want
            Then going our separate ways means also not using misleading advertising.  How would you feel if an Occupy group used a donkey and a picture of Obama to advertise for an Occupy event without consulting any branch of the Democratic Party?
            income inequality i.e. "the 99%" long before Occupy
            No one was using the phrase "the 99%" before last September.  It's inseparably associated with Occupy.  To use it to advertise an event is to imply that the event is associated with Occupy.
            The reason is youre no more help to us than the Republicans are and you don't intend to be.
            Makes sense, considering the only real goal of Democrats is to get elected.  Goals once elected?  Eh, whatever helps get elected next time!
    •  Ran, you fought for collective bargaining! Well (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe wobblie

      done Sir, and thank you and all the marble bedded Badgers.

  •  adbusters :) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Grabber by the Heel

    1st: Adbusters, OWS, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Infinity. You have liberated our hearts, souls & minds.
    2nd: 99%
    3rd: Hadn't been to a march since the anti war. After N17 (OWS raid) I went to a march in LA. Got kettled, KETTLED! WTF is this?
    Unfortunately the original ideaest can't quite grasp that the 1% are TOTALLY evil and pouring everything they've got into stopping Occupy.
    I was glad there was a large SEIU Union amount of people in the march because the cops eventually broke their kettle, youngsters & all. And VERY glad I didn't panic like an animal or scream, but it was close.
    I'll fly with all of the legitimate flocks, diverse we may be. Diverse we are. We are the 99%.
    This time the Naderite egotists are not dividing, desTROYing US! You cannot stop an ever evolving idea whose time has come to US all.
    Again, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You....................
    P.S. Ditto Wisconsin. I mean really ditto, ditto, ditto, Thank You Infinity also. I LOVE Wisconsin!
    Occupy Solidarity!

  •  ! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sean X, Iron Spider, Odysseas

    Before the "Occupy" movement even existed we were occupying in Wisconsin.  Most of us here believe we were the birth of the Occupy movement.  It started here.  It didn't end here and we are glad that it didn't.  No one is the start of the 99% - we have been there longer than anyone would want to be.  Follow the direction of Wisconsin.  Let's see how this plays out.  I am so proud to be part of such courageous group of people.   People of every walk of life coming together for a singular purpose!  Very Proud!  There is no reason to argue.   The right to protest belongs to everyone.  I would urge everyone to do it in a nonviolent way.

    Sweet Dreams and let the fight rage on!

    •  it started in Tunisia (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe wobblie, Odysseas

      To say it started in Wisconsin is simply shortsighted.  No wonder the use of Egyptian flags in the protests was discouraged- can't let people have perspective past the end of their own noses...

    •  It Started in China (0+ / 0-)

      at Tiananmen square...

      Or was it Thailand, the Red Shirts?

      No, wait. There have been many occupations throughout history. Many. Many.

      Oh, and "The Other 98%" has been around for a few years.

      Truth is, and I say this as an ardent supporter of Occupy, that there is nothing new here except for the energy and dedication of we, the people, the 99%.

      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

      by resa on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 02:55:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  BTW, Occupiers now sleeping on Wall St. (0+ / 0-)

    Occupy Returns to Its Roots With 'Sleepful Protests'
    Occupy DC, Philadelphia, and New York (on Wall St., with about 65 people currently) are adopting the tactic...

    ...arguing that a ruling by a federal judge allows them to sleep on city sidewalks. Monday night, forty protesters slept on the sidewalk by the New York Stock Exchange, and while rumors of arrests circulated online, a spokesman for the NYPD told the Times he wasn’t aware of any arrests.
    [...]
    Protester Lauren DiGioia told the Times, “As long as we don’t block doors or take up more than half the sidewalk there is no disorderly conduct.”
    Twitter #SleepfulProtest  #SleepOnWallSt

    Livestream: http://www.ustream.tv/...

    This sign is a hit with Wall Street commuters.

  •  I've been to Occupy Detroit, Occupy Lansing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseas, Grabber by the Heel

    I'll be at the 99% Spring training, and I'm running for local office this year.  Wisconsin set a great example.  Let's all do ALL we can, and WORK TOGETHER.  
    You know the other side has unlimited money, and will stop at nothing to keep control of the system.
    We are the 99%.

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