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                                                        AGAINST THE WIND
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Welcome to my First Open Thread Genealogists. I am Honored to be your Host today.

It is my pleasure to have volunteered to plug what was a missing slot, and be able to write today for this group`s weekly open thread. I must be frank at the very get-go with you though. I have questions for you. I have a very detailed journey of a search that in itself might be confusing to you as it has been for me. I am completely lost on whether what you will read is actually true. What I mean with this statement pertains to search records and how they are compiled and which I have had difficulty believing them to be true.

I trust I can find closure here. It will be a relief to acknowledge what I fear most. I have significant pieces of findings that have created this puzzle that are my ancestors lives that has led to this haunting sensation I now have.

For starters first let me try to apologize for my recent diary "A Master Cheater in my Family Tree -- My Grandfather" in which I wrote here that he cheated on who I thought was my real grandmother. I have done the appropriate research and found that the old dude was not even close to being a cheater. I will write on this below. In fact I now think differently for the guy. He did not hide secrets in his  very important stage of his life. Besides, no ancient ancestor would deliberately hide secrets from their family tree. At least I see no reason to do so.

On the bright side for me I do have my own little secret to tell you today, and I am proud to disclose it to you. Here it is:

I have become mostly absorbed and sorta addicted to this magical genealogy field that has allowed me to study "my families" and the tracing of their lineages and history. I need my daily fix too as someone in this group recently described genealogy. I write my families in quotations because I mean my personal heritage tree, or better yet the roots that brung me to this dance to go waltzing, wa-wa-wah waltzing with bears as was noted earlier which cracked me up. How does one not get strung out with genealogy and this group?

But on a not so bright side for me, I have been consistent with relentless rambling diaries that I have written for this group where I have chosen bits and pieces of events without making much sense. That much I have noticed. I need to start from the beginning -- from scratch, for  lack of a better word in order to give you a clue where I`m coming from, and for you to understand my questions. This by no means is a life and death situation questions for me, I merely seek peace of mind. I want to share with you and invite you to join me in this ongoing roller coaster ride. A ride against the wind from which I can`t seem to get off.

Previously I have made several short comments that has led to most aspects of this diary. I never bothered to write about how I came in possession of the death certificate of one Alejandro Lopez. It all started when I contacted a gentleman who had offered to help me search for siblings during discussions in my diary Help Me which I wrote June 18. I never asked for his permission to use his name in my diaries connected to his help, so I will not name him here. If you are interested and want to see the certificate click Here and let me tell you about it, and let me tell you what confusion really is.

A good road map to follow my search requires me to start from the beginning. So first I will tell you that I have become rather proficient with FamilySearch.org and as such discovered that my mother Margarita had "me" with the man who I found to be my biological father in 1936. His name was Gregorio Lopez. Then I found what follows below and related this information to my friend which I have mentioned in the paragraph above.

On Dec. 1937 a little more than a year of my birth, a child named Alexander Lopez was born to my mother, and a man named Alexander Lopez. This child`s father was not my biological father. But this child became one of several others not biological by my father but delivered by my mother that I wanted to search for and possibly find if still alive. This has been the sole purpose for my presence here at Dkos and my writings in many diaries published as The StoryTeller`s Dream is Awakened. My dream is now a nightmare.

My friend replied to my email with his own find in a search:

On May 1, 1938 "Alejandro Lopez" died (see: death certificate") and his father was Alejandro Lopez Sr.(I note these names to be written in Spanish), but Spanish standing alone is irrelvant. What I found relevant is that the name of the mother as shown in the death certificate is not my mother. I will address that more in detail below. So I can only question what are the odds that these two boys being born the same day in the same city -- have fathers named Alejandro? His birth in the indexes collections show he was born the same day.

It was my friend who found this death certificate and asked me if I thought there might be a possibility that these two Lopez men might be related. The question was sound and I put it in my mind that they might have been brothers if indeed this pesky ancient surprise pans out to be true.

I know, I know, I am not them. It is not my fault, and so forth. It is not my intention to throw rocks at my mother or anyone else since I too live in a  house with glass ceilings. I too have hidden secrets and many surprises. I guess my point is that I am confused like any normal family member would be and more so if I am wrong.

But there was one huge problem for me to believe. The name as shown in the death certificate is not my mother. This is why I found it so important to pursue any avenue that might convince me one hundred percent, which I am not. I have been unable to trace any connection to this Barail surname in searches. It goes to the same information to what I argue here. No past, no other family members, Nothing that would or could give me a clue of a connection to me.

The last thing I want to do is dramatize this issue. If I am proven wrong I swear, I will not be hurt. I really believe that there is nothing left in this world that can hurt me with the exception of a loss of one of my own family. I am using genealogy as a therapy and a tonic for relaxation which I really get each time I have my fix. I need to know my family tree before I jump off. In other words, I just want to go waltzing, wa-wa-wah waltzing with bears. I don`t think I am asking for too much.

I have done a lot of finger walking to churches, genealogists help centers, cemeteries and lately had been communicating with the late undertakers family ("thanks Klompendanser") that might have buried this child looking for records that might shed some light to my questions. I got this message and after reading it, I felt exactly as if a door was shut in my face. I mean really, it is frustrating. I was looking for any crack in this mystery that includes the total disappearance of the corpse of this child.

So far there are no records that have been found under your brothers name. After looking at the address of the funeral director on the death certificate, I am certain that your brother's service was handled by my grandfather's brother. Had it been our funeral home, the address would've been listed in Houston. 

I'm sorry I couldn't help you more and I wish you luck with your research. 

Sincerely,
Christina

I have taken a breather since getting this message from Christina. I cannot do any thing else but tell you something different that I have found in my searches that is more pleasant to read. This will give me pause to think more slowly whether I should continue with this particular search. This is as far as I have thought this out. My friend Chuco35 is right I guess when he said the following. Not only is he right I think this is the best advise I have gotten to date. I do hope he meant only this particular search:
"Viejo my thoughts are that your search is over. You have come to terms with the devils that kept you from empathizing with your siblings"
Thank you Chuco. As long as my fingers are free of Arthritis and or Polio they will pound the air waves. But you might just be right, give me just another shot here.

Remember that pesky cheating Grandpa of mine? Well, he wasn`t that bad of a dude after all. He married my real grandmother Candelaria Guerrero in 1904 and shortly thereafter my mother was born in 1906. My mother was born Margarita with my grandfather`s surname (Baray). I got this pleasant news when I saw my Mother`s death certificate dated 1970. There I finally saw the parents names of the deceased -- my real grandmother and grandfather who lived long enough to ask me how his favorite child was. From here it was easy for me to trace back to the day they were married in 1904.

The old woman who ran the torture chambers during my childhood life I saw as my grandmother in San Antonio today bring to my mind the true reasons why she hated my mother to her grave. I now know why all my aunts, hated my mother and saw her as an outsider and outcast. None of these people had a single gene from my real grandmother so this made her an outcast but she was my grandfather`s favorite child.

The earliest aunt born to my grandfather and the torture bearer was Hortencia in 1919, almost twenty years after his marriage to Candelaria Guerrero. I truly doubt the old coot was a bigamist, for I have it that my real grandmother died shortly after marriage. I am working on that rumor hopefully its untrue. The rest of my aunts and uncles on my grandfather`s side were not even born yet.  It is now clear to me why that woman greeted my mother and me with so much scorn and hate that even a child like me could see that morning when I first stepped on her porch. I owe this new knowledge to genealogy and its magical well of family historical information.

Remember Amelia, that skinny girl not too much older than me when I first stepped on her porch as a child? She is the only one standing of all the family tree on the side of my Mother`s father. The tree that I first started out trying to prune and water at the roots upon deciding to be a genealogist here on Daily Kos. Amelia is still alive. She and my late brother were both been born in 1933. One is gone, the other is close behind.

She spends her days as I understand just waiting for the end. She had seven kids. Six girls and only one boy. I guess that this follows that Amelia has planted those seeds for her own family tree so her children to can later, much later in life trace back the history of their family tree who brought them to this dance to go waltzing, wa-wa-wah waltzing, with bears. I have previously touched briefly on this cycle of human nature that keeps life in over drive.

In reiterating, it was my pleasure to have shared my pesky ancient ancestor`s secrets and surprises with you. There is no way they were deliberately hiding anything from anyone in particular. Scientific technology advancements in the field of genealogy would not allow that, and that much I am sure of.

So I pose these questions along with the burden to those who have volunteered to do a search for me if I asked. Let me remind you though. I have written this Open Thread`s contents with full knowledge that I have repeatedly written of having lost siblings to starvation during the Great Depression era. The word shown in the death certificate of Alexander Lopez "Marasmus" haunts me. This is why I now feel like the only limb in my family tree swaying against the wind.

Based on what you have read, is it possible that Alejandro Lopez , and Alexander Lopez are one and the same kid? Is it possible that Barail and Baray are the same surname caused by a typo? I have had many here offering to do searches for me.

Here is an opportunity if you still want to do that.  Please find me a connection. One connection that will place the person "Barail" so near to me that I must accept that I am wrong in refusing to believe in a typo. I will thank you from the bottom of my heart -- no matter which way the ball bounces so to speak. Genealogy as I said, has given me pleasant findings and some peace of mind. Whatever the outcome to my questions here will just add to that therapy and tonic that I have come to enjoy here. Learning here has been monumental to my heart.

I am not yet done with genealogy. If it is thumbs down to my skeptical views on the death certificate information, so be it. I will repeat. It is not over til its over. I will continue searching for the other siblings. This group inspires me and I hope to some day be a true genealogist like you.

Originally posted to Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 04:26 AM PDT.

Also republished by Genealogy and Family History Community.

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Comment Preferences

  •  they spelled by sound a lot (10+ / 0-)

    so it's entirely possible that Baray and Barail are the same name.

    (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

    by PJEvans on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 05:03:46 AM PDT

  •  Good morning, my friend (5+ / 0-)

    I am sorry that I don't have any suggestions or insights for you regarding your quest. I hope that our resourceful folks will be able to help. In the mean time, I will leave you with a thought, from someone who is very aware of exactly who their ancestors were.

    Sometimes, a little mystery might be preferable to knowing all of the unpleasantness that occured among the branches of one's family tree.

    My father's mother was a brilliant and very disturbed woman. Nowadays, they would say that she was bipolar; in those days, the term was "manic depressive". She married my father's biological father, a virtuous and hardworking man of Swedish descent, and had three sons, my father being the eldest. Then, when the man she had wanted to marry in the first place became "available", she left my grandfather and her three sons (aged 5, 4, and 2) and took off to marry this other man.

    First, though, she needed to get divorced, and in those days, only adultery was considered a basis for divorce. However, rather than be the "adulteress" herself, she convinced my overly trusting grandfather to be "set up" in a faked tryst at a hotel which would then be interrupted by the police.

    There is lots more to this story, but the point is: this one woman left a wake of human carnage behind her. Some of it might have been explained by her mental illness, but she was a very high-functioning person much of the time. Sometimes I do wish that I could "un-know" some of the things I've learned, and imagine myself some other relatives.

    Some drink deeply from the river of knowledge. Others only gargle. -- Woody Allen

    by cassandracarolina on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 07:31:34 AM PDT

    •  Hello cassandracarolina. (5+ / 0-)

      My apology for the delay in responding to your words of wisdom that I requested from you just recently. After posting this Open Thread here to the group this morning I left to pay a few bills and do other errands. I am back and I want to thank you for your warm words of personal experiences. You sound like what I seem to have gone through with my own pesky ancestors.

      I have to think you refer to your own grandmother when you say my father`s mother. I say to myself, What`s with these old grandparents?, especially women folk, who wait most of their lives to transform themselves into some type of sexual goddesses like in this case where your grandmother left her family for some Joe she had met in a very different set of circumstances. I touched briefly on this type of mother`s instincts when I said a mother was supposed to be bound by her instincts to protect her child, no matter the situation and would place her own life to that protection. My mother abandoned me.

      These words might be seen by some to being sexist. Remember, I talk here about my own mother. I have my own beautiful family in existence, in my own mind  and owe it all to my wife. Now here is a woman who knows sacrifices for her own. But perhaps mental illness catches up with some and that cannot be helped.

      True sometimes it is better for a little mystery in the lives of our ancestors to keep us honest so to speak. I do have to disagree with you on one point you make. At least I see it different.

      Sometimes I do wish that I could "un-know" some of the things I've learned, and imagine myself some other relatives.
      You are way too smart for that my friend.

      Someone told me recently that in the case of my mother it all came down to the hard times in which I was born. It was very difficult for women in those days. Women like my mother had to made hard choices. And unfortunately most of those choices were bad ones.

      And I agreed.

       I would not change anything in my life. I would not wish to have had another family. In that case I would not be who I am. And neither would you my friend.

      Peace.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 10:41:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bigamy (4+ / 0-)

      I've been looking at a scandal-ridden branch of my tree.  In fact, there'll be diary on it next week.  It's so scandal-ridden that I didn't even mention the (female) bigamist.  She abandoned her husband in Germany, and ran off to American with a man who must have known she was already married.  The first husband divorced her on the grounds of desertion.  

      Apparently, a son contested his (then very prosperous) father's will on the grounds that the marriage wasn't legitimate.  That same son married a woman employed as a maid in his parents' (and his) household.  The maid's grandson noticed that the maid was already pregnant when they were wed.  He speculates (based on who knows what?) that the maid was impregnated by her father-in-law rather than her husband.

      Other members of the family were notorious enough that I didn't include this sidebar of bad behavior in the story I'm telling for next week's open thread.

      There's a lot of people behave badly.  Much of it gets swept under the rug and isn't known about.  Sad but true.  I mostly find those stories to be interesting.  I just look at them as stories, and don't take them very personally.  Then again, it's mostly people who aren't that closely related anyhow, or ones who died before I was born and never met.  And most of the interesting stories happened long before I was born, too.

      Grab all the joy you can. (exmearden 8/10/09)

      by Land of Enchantment on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:11:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ahh Bigamy! Does (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        larmos

        that mean you were bold enough to have read all of my open thread? I wrote bigamy when discussing my grandfather`s marriage to my real grandmother before he married this other woman who was never my grandmother almost 20 years later.

        I cannot wait to read your story. I think it has become kind of boring with trying to climb over brick walls today. I think a good salacious story with lots of hanky panky discovered inside of your families tree trunk would lighten up my days ahead.

        Wow, a female bigamist. I wonder if this woman made those bad choices I am told women did in those days. I know I will not miss a line in your upcoming diary. I am an avid reader of stories about other people`s bad experiences so that perhaps I learn from those mistakes, as if my own life is destined for immortality.

        But don`t spoil the whole plot of your story with comments like this one. It tells a lot of a good story in store for us.

        Thanks

        Old men tell same old stories

        by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 01:16:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Been following your story with interest (5+ / 0-)

    My geneology work hasn't proved nearly so complex, but I wanted to share a sort of fun thing that happened yesterday.

    I randomly googled my paternal grandfather's name (not the first time, this is something I do with various relative's names every once in awhile) and found something new !

    There is a website for Arkansas graves, and lo and behold, there was a picture of his veteran's headstone with the WWI info on it.

    Now I already knew he was buried in Arkansas, but really didn't know exactly where.

    I did know there are websites with photos of graves all over the country, but this is the first time a relative's gravesite/headstone photo has actually showed up on a search.

    So, for those of you who might be interested in  
    Arkansas graves have fun !

    I must be dreaming...

    by murphy on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 10:07:55 AM PDT

    •  Hi murphy. It is nice (6+ / 0-)

      to know you have been following my story with interest. I want to thank you for sharing with us your fun searches which led to your paternal grandfather`s grave. I can only imagine your surprise and glee.

      Google has never been kind with me though. I did not even know I could use it in my own searches. But I will give it a shot. I still have a lot of work to do here.

      Wow a headstone with his photo? After all these years is just amazing. I have heard of these graves websites but have not explored there yet. I have learned that this field of genealogy is slow and hectic and confusing that tends to take a lot of time and patience.

      In my case there is a missing corpse of my supposed sibling that no one knows where it was dumped. Not even those who supposedly helped throw it into a hole in the ground. No records, nothing.

      Thank you murphy and good luck in future searches.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 10:59:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Confusing for sure ! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cassandracarolina, Jim H, edwardssl

        I have the (mis)fortune to have a common last name, so I cannot even begin to tell you how many deadends my work goes down !

        Even so, I've learned some neat stuff. Like, did you know the 1910 census asked if the person was a Confederate Army or Navy veteran, whether the person was blind in both eyes, or "deaf and dumb" ?

        A far cry from the stupid non-informational so-called "census" they did this last time !

        I know you are SOOOO frustrated in your search, and I wish you the very best of luck.

        One of these days, I hope, you may find peace and at least some of the answers you are seeking.

        I must be dreaming...

        by murphy on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 11:59:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  try mocavo.com (0+ / 0-)

        it's a search engine that targets materials in which genealogists would be interested, so it can filter out some of the noise that you get with a google search. It even looks at genealogy blogs, which can be good to make very specific connections to distant cousins. There is a free and a paid version--I am happy using the free version.

        •  larmos as always, (0+ / 0-)

          thank you for the tip. I will make a note of mocavo.com. At this time I really feel burned out and frustrated. After all my writings and dreams of finding a clue to this sibling I am faced with this; a typo.

          I will do as Land of Enchantment suggests. Wait awhile and then come back with more energy and perhaps more indexes available. But I will check out mocavo.com and follow your lead.

          Thanks

          Old men tell same old stories

          by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 02:50:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  larmos, I got on mocavo.com (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            edwardssl

            and it is awesome. I was just tinkering and clicked my grandfather`s name and surname Baray and immediately found some guy named Ray looking for him.

            At least that is what I understood with his email that is posted. I answered his email and asked him contact me.

            Hey, this is great. I like mocovo. I like that I am learning something that I have come to appreciate, genealogy.

            I`ll let you know of any progress I make. Unfortunately I could not "hit" with the surname Barail...Oh well

            Old men tell same old stories

            by Ole Texan on Sat Aug 04, 2012 at 04:18:49 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  findagrave.com (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cassandracarolina, Jim H, edwardssl

      Have you discovered that website?  It can be oh so helpful.

      There were many states that did grave index and vital records consolidation as part of the New Deal, mostly work done by the WPA.  It was one of the areas women got government employment in those days.

      Grab all the joy you can. (exmearden 8/10/09)

      by Land of Enchantment on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:00:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I checked ancestry.com for the birth record (4+ / 0-)

    of the Alejandro Lopez who's death record you've linked to.

    Now, I'm only looking at an index and not the original birth record.  However, the birth record shows

    Name:    Alexander Jr. Lopez
    Date of Birth:    1 Nov 1937
    Gender:    Male
    Birth County:    Travis
    Father's Name:    Alexander Lopez
    Mother's Name:    Margaret Baray
    Roll Number:    1937_0005

    So yes, Alejandro Lopez who died in 1938 at age 7 months, 16 days,  is the same individual as the Alexander Lopez who was born in Nov 1, 1937, the child of Alejandro/Lopez and Margarit/Margaret Barail/Baray.

    Spelling variations are a part of researching family history.  And while you need to exercise some care in such cases, there's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that this child is the same individual.

    I hope this was the answer for your question .  If not, please let me know and I'll try another search.

    •  Hi edwardssl. You are (4+ / 0-)

      very nice to have done this particular search. Let me try to say this again. I know I suck as a writer, but everything you tell me here appears to have been added in my Open Thread.

      I did those same searches with same results you give me.

      I even wrote that the decease Marasmus that killed the child haunted me because I have written extensively about my sibling having died of starvation. It is very difficult for me not to accept what you write -- and what I wrote because I asked for a connection.

      I have nothing else to go on. Perhaps if someone could find a connection between this surname Barail to me, then naturally I would know what I look for. Maybe this Barail had other children. I look for a girl sibling. My search in the Alexander Lopez case is just the brick wall I want to penetrate...... I did not understand your:

      the child of Alejandro/Lopez and Margarit/Margaret Barail/Baray.
      I was not that lucky to find the information in this context as you did.

      I went through this same phase of skeptical belief in what you tell me with my friend who found the certificate. I had to apologize to him for sounding so argumentative. I also apologize to you, but I have seen what you write in my own searches.

      I cannot find anything on this Barail surname. If you`re game, give it a shot. As for Alexander Lopez and the certificate thank you for your input.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 11:25:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I believe "Barail" has to a typo. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cassandracarolina, Jim H, larmos

        Though the mother's surname on the death record is "Barail", the birth record is "Baray".

        These kinds of typos are common.  I doubt most genealogist would get back past 100 years if we had to rely on 100% spelling consistency.

        For example, my grandmother's birth record states her given name was "Rosalinda".  I have found her also listed as "Linda", Rosalyn", Rose Lynn", Roslyn, to name a few.

        In fact, the only record I can find of "Barail" at all in Texas is a border crossing record from 1957

        Alvino Barail De La Via Alvero

        Barail is most certainly a typo, IMHO.

        •  Typos and just plain weird stuff (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cassandracarolina, edwardssl, Jim H

          Like, all of a sudden in my great-grandmother's obit, she is "Susie!--- nowhere near her real name, and I can't imagine anyone called her that (based on family lore).

          And yes, I'm sure it's her obit, all the other family members names are correctly stated.

          I must be dreaming...

          by murphy on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:04:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  One has to wonder, (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cassandracarolina, edwardssl, Jim H

            I know I do. Where and who finds these people to do these indexes and take people lives in their hands with this kind of uneducated elementary mistakes. Weird stuff, tell me about it.

            I think the same thing when I go to vote. Those who say if you can vote are in their century-mark in age or very close to it. With tri-focal eye glasses they can`t seem to find a name or address. No wonder these census reports are so
            juvenile oriented with what we read. I know I think this way. Very weird indeed.

            Old men tell same old stories

            by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:30:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •   I wrote your first sentence in reverse: (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cassandracarolina, edwardssl, Jim H
          Though the mother's surname on the death record is "Barail", the birth record is "Baray".
          I wrote that that the birth record is true. The death record I said I could not believe. She is not my mother. I do not question whether it might be a typo. But what if it isn`t?

          This is the reason I would like to keep on searching for any surname Barail. Not necessarily for his particular case. I found this Barail to be a foreign name but do not recall from the top of my head from where.

          My mother`s surname if her death certificate is Gomez after her marriage to my half sister`s father in 1942. Check it out, by marriage. It takes you to my grandfather as Baray, father of the deceased.

          You have been very helpful with whatever you could do, that much I know and appreciate.

          Thanks

          Old men tell same old stories

          by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:12:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'd agree. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          edwardssl

          My Hustons also went by Houston, Houghston...and I won't even start on the Gasaways (right, cousin fig!?)

          You have to consider the likely sources of the information for the 2 certificates you have and which information on those certificates is most accurate. The best part, IMO, is her set of example records that she discusses. Just asking the question, "who provided this information recorded" can help explain why a name is different in the two instances.

          http://www.progenealogists.com/...

          Go to this link and read this page about "what every genealogist should know about original and derivative records..." It's great. The author, Natalie Cotthill provides this list of questions that I think would be helpful for you to consider when you look at your two certificates.

          Some sample questions to keep in mind when evaluating a document include:

          Did the person who recorded the document actually witness the event? or,
          Did the person who recorded the document just write down information they were told about the event?
          If so, who told the writer about the event?
          Was it someone who witnessed it, or was it someone else who had heard of the event secondhand?
          Is the record an original record?
          Is it a photocopy of an original record? or,
          Is the record transcribed or abstracted, and thus has been subjected to the visual interpretation of the transcriber/abstractor?

          •  Hey larmos, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            edwardssl

            I am going to regretfully agree with what I have found here with the group, and now with you, that my questions have indeed turned out to be a "typo" in the surname of my mother.

            At least now I can go forth and learn more on this search business of ancestors.

            Thank you for this new tip. I went to the link above and I can tell you with honesty that I glanced through it. I will do a lot more reading on this. It is true though that it depends on several sources of information to make a document real, or authentic as I understood the little I read. I will make time to read it through, I promise.

            But I will always keep this link -- also.

            Thank you larmos

            Old men tell same old stories

            by Ole Texan on Sat Aug 04, 2012 at 05:58:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I have several brick walls (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cassandracarolina, edwardssl, Jim H

        Most of the time, I let them rest, then go back later with a fresh view.  Then again, I started with a large database, so there's plenty of threads to pursue.

        Grab all the joy you can. (exmearden 8/10/09)

        by Land of Enchantment on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 11:48:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Now you are (4+ / 0-)

          talking my type of rap Land of Enchantment. People here have been just beautiful with their tireless effort to assist me. I know how uncomfortable I must make them with my sense of denial.

          I have thought of what you say,

          "I let them rest, then go back later with a fresh view".
          Exactly what I want to do and will. Here I think if have hit another brick wall.

          Thanks, you make a bunch of sense.

           

          Old men tell same old stories

          by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:20:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Well, this week I found out I'm descended from (5+ / 0-)

    one of the people on the Mayflower.

    Yeah, that and five dollars will get you a latte, but it's kind of cool anyway.

    When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

    by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 10:44:41 AM PDT

    •  That is cool news (5+ / 0-)

      Alexandra Lynch. Is there any possibility that this news you found is laced with dairy material? come on, share.

      Thanks for stopping by with such good news today. It would be nice to know who this "one of the people on the Mayflower' is

      Thanks for sharing this with us.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 11:34:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, that's not the most interesting (0+ / 0-)

        connection. The interesting one is in history books, and has a diary on it coming later in the month.

        Complete with ruminations on historical guilt.

        When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

        by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 03:03:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Family lore (4+ / 0-)

      ... has me descended on my mother's side.  But that might be one of those fictions concocted back in the 1800s that proliferated.  However, it turns out I might be descended on my father's side instead.  I've got such extensive New England roots, it's almost to be expected, even if a lot of them died the first winter or soon thereafter.  I do remember reading somewhere that there's several million Mayflower descendants.  So while it's still a relatively small %age of the country, it's still quite a lot of people.

      Grab all the joy you can. (exmearden 8/10/09)

      by Land of Enchantment on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 11:55:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, exactly. (0+ / 0-)

        It's interesting, but not terribly relevant.

        I do love some of the names that show up. I have seen a Discretion and a Thyrzia.

        And the wonderfully, stereotypically Irish Mary Margaret O'Callaghan, about four generations back. (Yes, she was.)

        When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

        by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 03:05:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Want to volunteer to host a Friday GFHC Open Threa (3+ / 0-)

    to host a Friday GFHC Open Thread?  

    Current schedule

    Aug 10  Land of Enchantment
    Aug 17  Land of Enchantment
    Aug 24  Alexandra Lynch
    Aug 31  jeanette0605
    Sep 7    open for adoption
    Sep 14  open for adoption

    Anyone??

  •  Posted so early, I missed it! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandracarolina, edwardssl, Jim H

    Came looking in the afternoon for the open thread, and here it was up all day already!

    No answers for you, except that Baray and Barail wouldn't be surprising as variations of the same name on records.  There's so many ways records can diverge, especially when not everyone was literate to even know how to spell their own name.  I got reminded of that lately when I discovered a document signed only by "X" and noted as the person's "mark."  There's some Census enumerators with a pretty casual attitude towards spelling, too, as well as with terrible penmanship.

    Grab all the joy you can. (exmearden 8/10/09)

    by Land of Enchantment on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 11:46:21 AM PDT

    •  I think I just (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      edwardssl, Land of Enchantment

      picked up another issue on which to whine. I just wrote on exactly what you say on diverge based on illiterate indexers. I asked where in the world do they find these kind of people to do such an important and valuable piece
      of work that deal with people lives of today and of other lives? Other lives that were lived with loved ones.

      No wonder jobs are so scarce if these zombies just mark an x for a name. I know, its funny but true.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:48:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  btw, I see the notice on ancestry.com today (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jim H

    that the 1940 census is now fully indexed there.

    Familysearch.org isn't quite there yet, but almost.

    •  I noticed on Familysearch.org (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      edwardssl

      these past few days that there are a lot more indexes. I see a lot of names and surnames not available earlier. I have nothing but time to wait and come back searching for whatever comes up to my typo questions.

      I do admit though, that you and everyone else might just be correct about the typo. I`ll just wait it out.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 03:00:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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