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Our compassion and sympathies go out to all of those who lost loved ones today. In their honor and memories, and to do our best to reduce the numbers of future tragic deaths, I would like to take Weatherdude's righteous proclamation When is the right time to talk about this bullshit? to a necessary, but insufficient, next action step by calling for an immediate extension of the expired ban on automatic weapons. Anything less seems to be a disservice to the new dead of each new day, as we continue to hear, the now unacceptable excuse, parroted again today by White House Press Secretary, Jay Carney's statement saying "today is not the day to engage in a policy debate over gun control."  

Weatherdude articulates the outrage all of us should be feeling, and which may be more sensitive to the potentially future dead we may save by demanding this discussion start today:


The Second Amendment does not guarantee your right to this bullshit. Fuck you for saying that this isn't the appropriate time to talk about stopping gun violence. Fuck you for saying that it's a discussion leading to a "gun grab." ... When is the right time to talk about this bullshit?

Earlier today, Meteor Blades reported the tragic shooting deaths of at least 27 people, including 18 children, at a Connecticut  elementary school, this morning, as well as  White House Press Secretary, Jay Carney statement saying "today is not the day to engage in a policy debate over gun control."  

It may seem harsh, and difficult, and I sympathize with those who have lost loved ones today, but we've heard this excuse that "today is not the day for discussing gun control out of sensitivities to the families" too many times. We need to say, out of sympathies for families of the future dead, "today is the day to demand we start a discussion of our excess gun violence, today, while peoples attention's are "hot" to do our best to prevent future deaths." To do less, is to tacitly enable future deaths, and will leave blood on our collective hands.  

WASHINGTON — As news filtered in Friday from the school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said "today is not the day," to engage in a policy debate over gun control. ...

After 12 people were killed in a movie theater shooting in Aurora, Co. in July, Obama said, "I hope that over the next several days, next several weeks, and next several months, we all reflect on how we can do something about some of the senseless violence that ends up marring this country," Obama said. Carney was pressed on those remarks, asked whether enough reflection had been done since that tragedy, and Carney declined to answer.

Asked about reinstating the Assault Weapons Ban, which Obama has supported but never invested political capital in, Carney said it "does remain a commitment" of the president's.

CNN reports two semi-automatic handguns were recovered at the scene.

 

Back in October, our President pointed us in the right direction, for a first step in the right direction, as reported in Obama Calls for Renewal of Assault Weapons Ban

President Obama tonight said he’s interested in seeing an assault weapons ban reintroduced, breaking his silence on the legislation, which has persisted in spite of at least five mass shootings during his term.

At the end of a long answer to the question, “What has your administration done or planned to do to limit the availability of assault weapons?” Obama said this:
“My belief is that, (A), we have to enforce the laws we’ve already got, make sure that we’re keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, those who are mentally ill. We’ve done a much better job in terms of background checks, but we’ve got more to do when it comes to enforcement.

“But I also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don’t belong on our streets. And so what I’m trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced. But part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. Because frankly, in my home town of Chicago, there’s an awful lot of violence and they’re not using AK-47s. They’re using cheap hand guns.”
As a candidate in 2008, Obama campaigned on permanent reinstatement of the expired assault weapons ban, and Attorney General Eric Holder in 2009 indicated that the administration would lobby for a bill. But that never materialized and the White House has largely avoided talking about it.

Today is the day to demand we start this debate. Anything less, is a insult to the dead of each new day and their loved ones, and tacitly enables future such killings. By continuing to delay this discussion,  on what should be a totally non-controversial first step, so many dozens of times, we all will bear some collective responsibility for future deaths enabled by our silence and inaction.

President Obama and Congressional leaders should call for an immediate extension of the ban on automatic weapons ban, The next steps after than will be more controversial, but we have no excuse not to draw a line-in-the-sand at weapons only appropriate for the battlefield.  No reasonable person should suggest that the second amendment should give civilians the right to bear bazookas, tanks, cruise missals, tactical nuclear weapons and other battlefield munitions. Automatic and assault weapons should be a non-controversial place to draw a clear immediate line.    

11:57 AM PT:

Here is a link to a petition on the White House website. I'm not certain but some may prefer a petition referring to "assault weapons" rather than "semi-automatic," I'm not certain, but here's the link.

Petition on White House website



WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:

Start the process to enact Federal Gun control reforms.

Every week it seems that we are facing a new headline of mass shootinngs -two in the last week alone. The consitutution gives us the right to bear arms and no one wants to take that right away, but we need real gun control reform.

Background checks, restricted access to semi-automatic weapons, waiting periods, all need to be part of a robust gun control policy that will allow people to keep thier guns but provide a responsible framework to gun ownership.

We need to have a conversation and we are looking to the White House to take the lead on this.

Created: Dec 14, 2012

12:20 PM PT: We need to change the meme that one can not honor and show compassion  and sympathy for the deaths of innocents, and try to stop on ongoing killing spree at the same time.

Our hearts go out to the victims, past, present, and future.

But, we would dishonor these dead if we do not make a call for the obvious needed next step of a call for re-extending the ban on automatic assault weapons, at the same time.

Waiting until later is not acceptable, when tomorrow never comes.  And, the clock is reset with new killings nearly every day.

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1:10 PM PT: I changed the "automatic weapons" to "assault weapons" in the title after commenters pointed out automatic weapons are already banned and the expired law President Obama and others are supporting the renewable of is for assault weapons.

1:17 PM PT: I support President Obama's statement here:

Obama On Connecticut Shooting: We Need 'Meaningful Action'



"As a country we have been through this too many times. Whether it is an elementary school in Newtown, or a shopping mall in Oregon, or a temple in Wisconsin, or a movie theater in Aurora, or a street corner in Chicago -- these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children," he said in a press briefing at the White House. "We're going to have to come together to meaningful action on this, regardless of the politics." ...

"In the hard days to come, the community needs us to be at our best as Americans, and I will do everything in my power as president to help," he said. "Because while nothing can fill the space of a lost child or loved one, all of us can extend the hand to those in need, to remind them that we are there for them, that we are praying for them, that the love they felt for those they lost endures not just in their memories, but also in ours."

Obama ended his remarks with a quote from the Bible, as he often has in similar situations: "He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds," a line from the Book of Psalms.

Originally posted to HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 11:54 AM PST.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA.

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Comment Preferences

  •  We can't talk about it now (10+ / 0-)

    That always strikes me as odd in these situations.  When a plane crashes, nobody has a problem with getting to the bottom of the problem to make sure, best as possible, it doesn't happen again.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!", but "That's funny..." (Isaac Asimov)

    by Land of Enchantment on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 11:56:19 AM PST

  •  If the militia goes apeshit and says the words (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave in Northridge, ExStr8

    well-regulated are decorative, well, there go your guns people.  You can't handle guns.  (you=gun owners)

    Hey, GOP - Get In, Sit Down, Shut up, & Hang On!

    by 88kathy on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:02:40 PM PST

  •  POTUS to speak at 3:15pm EDT (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog, blueoasis

    He will probably focus more on sorrow and condolence, but I am hoping he will also say something that lifts the latch on the door to real dialogue and action on this issue.  The latch has been holding the door shut for a long, long time.

  •  It is the semi-automatic rifles and pistols with (8+ / 0-)

    large clips that are now killing our children.  What are they used for.  Not sportsmen...not hunters...not collectors...not for self-protection unless you are going to take out the neighborhood.  

    Kids are dead.  How many more macho human killing machines need to be sold?  

  •  I don't want your damn hunting guns (7+ / 0-)

    I just want to put limits on guns that shoot hundreds of bullets in seconds or guns in the hands of crazy people or people with domestic violence history.  

    If you want to play with your automatic or semi-automatic weapons, take them to an approved range to shoot them, but if you shoot such a weapon any where, any time away from an approved location, you go to prison for 10 years.  

    We regulate cars by licensing people and by arresting people when you drive drunk.  When can we do that with guns?  They are SO much more dangerous.  

    The Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with this.  

    •  guns are like cars that only go at 100mph. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      David54, flo58

      they require a level of responsibility gun owners are not willing to demonstrate.

      Hey, GOP - Get In, Sit Down, Shut up, & Hang On!

      by 88kathy on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:11:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd advocate for LEAVING all of them at the range, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge, flo58, profewalt

      locked up tighter than the Situation Room.  

      They can visit their automatic or semi-automatic weapons at the range and shoot them there until their hearts are content.  BUT THEY CANNOT TAKE THEM OFF THE RANGE PREMISES.

      And if anyone tries to, then everyone else is deputized to stop them, just as one idea.  Or put a GPS in them, that it won't shoot without the GPS intact.

      If you want to play with your automatic or semi-automatic weapons, take them to an approved range to shoot them,
      •  It defies common sense that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gooderservice

        this is not already the law in every state in the country.  The NRA is just too powerful a force, I guess.

        It is always a good idea to keep guns under lock and key.  The more dangerous the weapon, the bigger the lock and key.  

        I would really like to find out where the limits of gun ownership and use are.  I fear it is for all of us to have guns.  That is the logic of arguing for arming teachers and theater goers and mall shoppers to protect themselves.  

        The gun and ammo industry would be happy.

         

  •  Hound Dog - there were no automatic weapons (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pistolSO, Gooserock, nextstep, MGross

    used in this senseless killing. Ownership of automatic weapons is strictly controlled in the US. Obtaining a permit to own an automatic weapon is difficult and the process is long and rigorous. The use of a legally owned automatic weapon in the commission of a crime in the US is extremely rare. Why the title referencing automatic weapons? There is a small number of them in private hands and they are not used in crimes by legal owners in the US.

    In your diary it states that "two semi-automatic handguns were found at the scene". All handguns, accept historical pieces, have been semi-automatic for many decades. All semi-automatic refers to is that each time you pull the trigger the weapon will fire a single bullet and chamber the next round. You don't need to cock the handgun to load the next bullet. If you pull the trigger and keep it down, only one bullet will fire.  

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:12:28 PM PST

    •  It's a first step VClib. Gun control advocates, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge

      and our President have called for an extension of the ban on automatic weapons and the add on clips that convert regular hand guns to these faster shooting weapons.

      I believe there must be some substance to it. Why do all the gun control advocates, and the President call for it, if it is not a needed step in the right direction?

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:28:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  no such thing.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nextstep

        just do a little more research....please....your diary and the above comment is filled with false information and hysteria....

        Just do a tad more research...just a tad more...please...

        •  Or, you could identify any false information. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jfromga, Dave in Northridge

          Every quote is sourced from highly reputable sources.

          Please identify any information you contest.  

          Also, I am not hysterical but, sad to see repeated killings of innocents of a systematic recurrence  we see in few, if any, other advanced industrial countries.

          The quote of our president is sourced from CBS and can be found in dozens of other major publications.

          Can you produce even one suggesting he did not make this statement, which is a direct blockquote of CBS?

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:42:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  as an example... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib

            this is false...

            "add on clips that convert regular hand guns to these faster shooting weapons."

            ridiculously so...there is no such thing...

            discussion of our excess gun violence, today, while peoples attention's are "hot" to do our best to prevent future deaths." To do less, is to tacitly enable future deaths, and will leave blood on our collective hands

            This is also false...any credible research right or left...will tell you gun violence as a whole is down...no matter the reason you chose to account for it, whether it be gun control or more guns...

            just as examples

            •  I'll change the add on clips, to (0+ / 0-)

              "regular hand guns" to add on devices that can upgrade some legal guns to assault level weapons" which I agree would be more accurate.

              These have been widely described in the press and I believe are included in the expired assault weapons regulation.

              We disagree if you think we do not have excess gun violence.  Not to address it, does leave us responsible for future deaths.

              We do not need additional research to tell us that any numbers of  deaths of innocents from assault weapons, are "excess" and  are evidence of a need to do more about them.  

              The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

              by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:29:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  The statement 'add on clips" occurred in the above (0+ / 0-)

              comment not the post so I can not change it, to "add on devices that upgrade the non-assault grade weapons to assault grade, which my understanding is dealt with in the expired assault weapons bill which the President supports.

              This seems like a somewhat trivial point, but I'm glad to make it, but does not change my point that while the more controversial elements of gun control, and other proposals to address our "culture of gun violence" may need more refinement, support for the assault weapons ban ought be straight-forward and non-controversial.

              As a society, we need to take some symbolic step to illustrate to ourselves that we are willing to stand behind the rule-of-law and law and order.

              Drawing a line between guns for hunting, and self-protection, and "assault level weapons" is reasonable, and objective step forward.  

              Not to take such a reasonable first step will leave of with collective responsibility, and leave many, including children with a fear that no one is taking steps to protect them.  

              The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

              by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:42:48 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'd like to see what this thing is... (0+ / 0-)

                "to add on devices that can upgrade some legal guns to assault level weapons"

                We'll agree to disagree on the rest....

                •  Wikipedia provides the specific definition (0+ / 0-)

                  of what constitutes an assault weapon.  The intent of my comments about the add-on devices" was to include any of the following devices that can be purchased separately and then added to a weapon that would not meet the criteria of an assault weapon, but can be converted to one in after-market modifications.

                  My understanding is that the Assault Weapons ban supported by President Obama and others includes language to ban modified weapons as well.  This would include such things as firing pins that can convert Uzi's sold as single shot weapons to automatic weapons.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                  Criteria of an assault weapon

                  Assault weapon (semi-automatic) refers primarily (but not exclusively) to firearms that possess the cosmetic features of an assault rifle (which are fully-automatic). Actually possessing the operational features, such as 'full-auto', is not required for classification as an assault weapon; merely the possession of cosmetic features is enough to warrant such classification as an assault weapon. Semi-automatic firearms, when fired, automatically extract the spent cartridge casing and load the next cartridge into the chamber, ready to fire again; they do not fire automatically like a machine gun; rather, only one round is fired with each trigger pull.
                  In the former U.S. law, the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, TEC-9, non-select-fire AK-47s produced by three manufacturers, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of cosmetic features from the following list of features:

                  A semi-automatic Yugoslavian M70AB2 rifle.

                  An Intratec TEC-DC9 with 32-round magazine; a semi-automatic pistol formerly classified as an Assault Weapon under Federal Law.
                  Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
                  Folding or telescoping stock
                  Pistol grip
                  Bayonet mount
                  Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
                  Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).
                  Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
                  Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
                  Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
                  Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
                  Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
                  A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.
                  Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
                  Folding or telescoping stock
                  Pistol grip
                  Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
                  Detachable magazine.
                  [edit]Provisions of the ban

                  The Federal Assault Weapons Ban was only a small part (title XI, subtitle A) of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act.
                  The Act created a flowchart for classifying 'assault weapons' and subjected firearms that met that classification to regulation. Nineteen models of firearms were defined by name as being 'assault weapons' regardless of how many features they had. Various semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns were classified as 'assault weapons' due to having various combinations of features.
                  The Act addressed only semi-automatic firearms, that is, firearms that fire one shot each time the trigger is pulled. Neither the AWB nor its expiration changed the legal status of fully automatic firearms, which fire more than one round with a single trigger-pull; these have been regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.
                  The Act also defined and banned 'large capacity ammunition feeding devices' in the ban, which generally applied to magazines or other ammunition feeding devices with capacities of greater than a certain number of rounds, and that up to the time of the Act were considered normal or factory magazines. Media and popular culture referred to these as 'high capacity magazines or feeding devices'. Depending on the locality and type of firearm, the cutoff between a 'normal' capacity and 'high' capacity magazine was 3, 7, 10, 12, 15, or 20 rounds. The now defunct federal ban set the limit at 10 rounds.

                  My original comment was referring to large capacity ammunition feeding devices that can be attached, or "clipped-on" to weapon that otherwise, would  not meet the criteria for an assault weapon but can be converted to one in the ways described above.

                  The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

                  by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:51:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  HoundDog - there is a shocking amount of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pistolSO, bruddaone, HoundDog

        misinformation regarding automatic weapons and semi-automatic weapons. There are no legal automatic weapons used in crimes in the US, because they are rare and very tightly controlled. There is a debate regarding semi-automatic assault rifles and large capacity magazines. That's a perfectly legitimate debate to have, but the debate about automatic weapons ended decades ago. They aren't a problem any more.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:04:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for the clarification VClib In response I (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          have changed "automatic weapons" to "assault weapons" in my title, to be consistent with the legislation CBS reports that the President and others want to reactive after we let it expire.

          My main point was to support what appears to be a very reasonable, and less controversial, step in the right direction.

          Other aspects of gun control, registration limitations for mental health, etc, seem far more problematic and controversial.  

          My intent was to support what appears to me to be the less problematic reactivation of the assault weapons ban as a symbolic gesture to ourselves that we are not helpless and can make reasonable progress to move in the direction of addressing gun related violent.  While acknowledging the point, I even quoted the President making  - that much gun violence is committed with ordinary handguns, not assault weapons, so a ban on assault weapons will not solve our problem, it is one thing we can do, and to not do something so reasonable would be a shame, we really have no excuse for.  

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:52:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I changed the title to the more accurate (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          "assault weapons" MGross.  Thanks for the correction.

          My understanding is that the original ban on assault weapons passed with bipartisan support, and is supported by a majority of voters.  This is the bill I wished to support.

          Thanks for the heads up.  

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:55:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Distinction without a difference. (0+ / 0-)
    •  VClib I changed "automatic weapons" to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib

      "assault weapons" in the title to be more accurate.

      Thanks for the heads up.

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:32:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  HoundDog, if the Democrats do the right thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    notrouble, ExStr8

    and pass an Assault Rifle Ban in the Senate, which will then fail in the House unless Pelosi does a discharge petition and some GOPers are actually sick of the violence too, are you OK with Majority Leader McConnell in 2015?

    If today finally makes people really talk about how to effectively reduce gun violence, then I welcome it.  But gun control is going to make 2014 a bad election cycle for us.

    Washington and Colorado said that you've got to legalize it. Hope the DOJ respects that.

    by pistolSO on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:18:46 PM PST

    •  Only given the assumption that we do not change (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ExStr8

      minds and develop a more educated national consensus.

      The polls I've seen show a majority of American support the assault weapons ban.

      Just a few years ago, polls showed the majorities opposed marriage equality and the decriminalization of marijuana and progressive Democrats showed courage and leadership by supporting both. And, now we see 10% to 15% improvements in polls within just a few years.

      I'm not familiar with the details of the assault weapons ban,  and I realize the guns in the crime this morning were "only" semi-automatic handguns, -- but the point is to bust up this  wrong meme that we can not discuss any sensible attempts to control excess gun violence at times of grief needs push-back.

      I see no reason to expect we will lose Senate seats by a supporting bans on assault weapons that will be favored by vast majorities of voters with even just a small amount of leadership.

      The NRA has spent vast amount against nearly all of our Democratic Senate candidate as a matter of course, even  when they oppose gun control.

      What and see if public sentiment does not move sharply in a new direction immediately.  Let's get ahead of it, and use it to get a House Speaker Pelosi by 2014.

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:36:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  We're a long way from being able to legislatively (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pistolSO, JesseCW, HoundDog

      do something concrete about the gun situation.
      We have to push back on the NRA and gun industry and lobby, who have been bullying our elected leaders for a couple of decades.

      We have to start a dialogue that will change public opinion about the issue, and then the forces of gun-whackery will be on the defensive.
      Until that happens we won't be able to mount common sense reform.
      It starts by talking about it and not being shouted down or bullied.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:37:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps something like Occupy Handguns (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog, ExStr8

        or something like that?   President Obama does have the advantage now of never having to face another election so he isn't really bound by the NRA.   Of course, congressional Democrats will get bullied yet again.

        I do think a Massachusetts-style Assault Weapons Ban could be passed in Hartford so at least Connecticut has a chance to reduce violence.   A good step would be to name the ban after one of the children that were killed.

        Washington and Colorado said that you've got to legalize it. Hope the DOJ respects that.

        by pistolSO on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:48:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Progress will require a sophisticated targeting (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pistolSO

          approach as you suggest here, pistolSO.  But, we also need to push back on NRA memes that we can not discuss reasonable efforts to control violence while violence is still occurring.

          During the summer or spring I heard on politician still saying this a week after one of the massacres - as if the mourning period should extend to the whole month.

          The sad and tragic fact is that we have incidents of gun violence somewhere in the country, more often to lessor degrees, almost every day somewhere in our country.

          Our hearts and prayers go out to the victims, and their families, but we need to shift to a more proactive posture and discuss the need for greater rationality, even during the tragedies, as experience shows us the more sensitive discussions of "tomorrow" never come.

          I support guns for hunting, but am willing to draw the law at assault weapons as our most logical first step, -- not necessarily those used in this morning shooting but as some seem confused about - but from a Sun Tzu-like  strategic perspective -- let's start with the areas most probably to win.  

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:00:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, no, now a threat of Majority Leader McConnell (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HoundDog

      in 2015.  FSM.

      •  With skillful leadership from President Obama (0+ / 0-)

        focusing on the most egregious assault weapons I believe the polls already show if we are going to talk about electoral consequences the evidence suggests we could just as easily speculate about Speaker Pelosi.

        Polls are moving in the direction of rational control of the most extreme weapons, and it is not unreasonable to expect this trend to accelerate, especially if the President and other reputable, and trusted leaders get behind it.

        The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by HoundDog on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:03:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Skillful leadership is the key. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HoundDog

          Good leaders make the polls swing based on the leaders educating and convincing the public.  Polls should not ever cause the leaders to respond one way or another -- at least until there has been educated and informed discussion nationwide.

    •  How many Children do we sacrifice (0+ / 0-)

      at the altar of political expedience? I'll take my chances 2 years from now, if it means 20 children don't get gunned down. Not a hard choice at all.

  •  this x1 zillion (4+ / 0-)
    "today is the day to demand we start a discussion of our excess gun violence, today, while peoples attention's are "hot" to do our best to prevent future deaths."
    it goes without saying that there are at least 18 families in pure agony at this moment.  their loss is horrific.  the loss of their beloved children was also entirely unnecessary.  

    instead of the suggestion i read here a few moments ago about weaponizing young children as a solution, which i am appalled by, let this instead be a watershed moment when we stood up and spoke up about banning assault weapons in this country.  let that be now, in this moment.  we are too late as it is for the children killed this morning.  let there not be one more shooting, one more injury or death.

  •  We can talk about it now, but what we say today (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog

    will be for naught if we don't talk about it tomorrow and the day after.
    This should be the event that convinces us as a nation: enough.

    I don't know where I stand on specific gun control ideas.
    I do know we need to have a discussion about the male (almost exclusively) obsession with guns and what they represent.
    We need to have a discussion about power and gun worship and gun fetishism and all the other things that are afflicting (mostly young) males in this country, such as the lack of jobs and careers and societal worth, etc.

    We need to have a discussion about the gun industry and the gun lobby.

    I think it's appropriate for the President to focus on the victims today but I also think it's appropriate for those of us who are beyond ready for a change to say, "No. We want to talk about guns."

    You can't make this stuff up.

    by David54 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:29:37 PM PST

  •  Ok. I'm not a RBKA'r and this isn't about (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pistolSO, MGross

    trying to insult you or belittle you.

    We have extremely strict regulation of automatic weapons.

    An automatic weapon is a machine gun - a gun that fires until you let go of the trigger.

    You're talking about semi automatic weapons.

    This place needs a PVP server.

    by JesseCW on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:44:00 PM PST

  •  I signed the petition. (0+ / 0-)

    There are room for differing opinions within the RKBA, unlike the NRA. I have supported this exact reform for a long time.

    We need sensible reforms. We have needed them for a very long time. The time to talk about it is now, just like the time to talk about work place safety is when over 100 workers died in Bangladesh.

    This is one way to honor those who died.

    WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For Dec: Life so cheap; property so sacred.

    by JayRaye on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:51:12 PM PST

  •  A modest proposal (0+ / 0-)

    I'll accept the statement that guns don't kill people, people kill people, if YOU accept the statement that people kill people and sometimes they use guns to do it.

    -7.75, -8.10; All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:55:43 PM PST

  •  Please sign the petition at (0+ / 0-)

    Whitehouse website.

    It needs 25,000 sigs.

    It takes time to practice generosity, but being generous is the best use of our time. - Thich Nhat Hanh.

    by Frank In WA on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:16:39 PM PST

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