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Alan Schwar of the New York Times is shocked to discover that Thousands of Toddlers Are Medicated for A.D.H.D., Report Finds, Raising Worries

ATLANTA — More than 10,000 American toddlers 2 or 3 years old are being medicated for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder outside established pediatric guidelines, according to data presented on Friday by an official at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The report, which found that toddlers covered by Medicaid are particularly prone to be put on medication such as Ritalin and Adderall, is among the first efforts to gauge the diagnosis of A.D.H.D. in children below age 4. Doctors at the Georgia Mental Health Forum at the Carter Center in Atlanta, where the data was presented, as well as several outside experts strongly criticized the use of medication in so many children that young.

The American Academy of Pediatrics standard practice guidelines for A.D.H.D. do not even address the diagnosis in children 3 and younger — let alone the use of such stimulant medications, because their safety and effectiveness have barely been explored in that age group. “It’s absolutely shocking, and it shouldn’t be happening,” said Anita Zervigon-Hakes, a children’s mental health consultant to the Carter Center. “People are just feeling around in the dark. We obviously don’t have our act together for little children.”


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Alan Schwar also tells us that children below the age of 4 are supposed to be excluded from the guidelines for diagnosing A.D.H.D. because being hyperactive and impulsive are "developmentally appropriate for toddlers.  

I am tempted to put a humor alert tag on this sentence, and then put another humor alert tag on this  first humor alert tag, so people would realize that the first humor alert tag was just a way of saying WTH? But, essentially this sentence is a fancy way of saying that it is normal for children to act "childish." So when they do act childish we should not diagnose them with A.D.H.D. because their "symptoms," or in this case a better word might be "behavior," would be similar to the symptoms of A.D.H.D if they were a lot older.

So, what this article is telling us is that what you are about to read in he next block quotes is the kind of bizarre and distressing kind of conversation that has been happening in tens of thousands of pediatricians offices across America. I wrote this so please do not be concerned that I am exceeding fair use guidelines. I am putting it in block quotes to create the impression that I'm making great progress in my goal of becoming more succinct, and to make the post look cooler.

Warning Disturbing Blockquote, DB, and Disturbing Concepts, DC


Mother: "Doctor, I'm concerned about my baby.

Docter:  "Why, what seems to be the problem?"

Mom:  "Well, he's immature, refuses to follow instructions, has poor impulse control, poops in his diapers, cries at all hours of the night, refuses to sleep on a proper schedule,  is irritable, pulls the dogs tail, behaves in an undisciplined manner, and really, quite honestly Doctor, is a royal pain in the ass. If we had known he was going to be this much trouble we wouldn't have had him."

Doctor: "Umm, I see, ... well, here, try giving him some Adderall. It's  expensive, so if your insurance doesn't cover it, I can write the prescription so they can substitute the generic, which is time-released dexedrine salts. Oddly enough, given in regular dosages over a long period of time they calm some babies down, so you might get some sleep.

Doctor "Just don't let any of your other kids get them because they can sell them on the street for $20 each and if they give them to any of their friends and those kids are black or poor, they could go to jail for 10 years just for possessing them."

Mom: "Oh, Thanks Doc, you are a Godsend, doc. Oh, and don't worry, we don't let our kids associate with "thoose" (sic) kinds of kids who use drugs. Thanks a million."

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One Doctor suggest that when parents come into to doctors offices and day care workers complaining that their children were difficult to take care of, instead of giving them quick and easy pharmacological interventions, he suggest that doctors and social workers recommend parents provide "more structured environments for such children." You can imagine, however, the difficulty with this approach as it takes a lot more time, seems vague, and unsatisfactory, and appears suspiciously as if the doctor is giving the patient the brush off.

One 2006 study found that methylphenidate could ameliorate A.D.H.D-like symptoms in preschoolers, but most of the researcher in that study had "significant financial ties to pharmaceutical companies that made A.D.H.D. medications."

A Dr. Greenberg reflected, while some of these kids may have legitimate problems, he suspects some of these medications are being prescribed in a "knee-jerk reaction." He observes that depression and anxiety present with the same symptoms, and these stimulant class of medications used to treat A.D.H.D. will make those problems worse.

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Another disturbing and unexplained finding of this study is that toddlers covered by Medicaid tend to be Medicated for A.D.H.D. far more often than those covered by private insurance.

Toddlers brains and psychologies are still developing at prodigious rates. All of these medications can have substantial physiological, neurological, and psychological side effects, most of which, a toddler would be unable to communicate about. I'm not a doctor but my opinion, for what it is worth, is we should be highly cautious about medicating children this young, especially without a health care system that can provide closer and more intimate monitoring.

My heart goes out to these little kids, their parents, and families. Let us hope we can develop better solutions for whatever is troubling them all. I should make clear that this article is discussing a problem of diagnosing toddlers for whom the diagnostic criteria for doing so do not exist. My own son has  as form of A.D.H.D and has responded well to medication, and I know other parents for whom medication is a Godsend.

There are also cases, however, where a problem that presents as a child, turns out upon closer investigation, to be an emergent dynamic of the whole family as a system, or in some cases, even a problem with on of the parents, as might be the case if the parents are alcoholics are have some other problems.

My only point is that is may not be possible to adequately diagnose a toddler based on an office visit and it would seem to be a shame to start a child off on what could turn out to be a lifetime of medication on an incorrect diagnosis.

Are we seeing an example of a hammer looking to find a nail? Except in his case conking poor innocent children and their families on their heads. Surely we can do better than this as one of the richest nations on earth. Here is an example of how low austerity hawks like Representative Paul Ryan have taken our national pride, vision, and compassion. We can no longer even imagine recommending the kinds of family systems interventions any of us who have taken more than even a few graduate psychology courses know research would suggest should be tried before such extreme psycho-pharmaceulogical experiments are tried on toddlers.  

6:47 AM PT: Thank you to the theKgirls fror bringing to my attention that the first version of this article contained a paragraph at the end that was poorly written an communicated my point incorrectly.

While intending to bring up the possibility that in some cases with these toddlers who are diagnosed with A.D.H.D. with one or a few visits to a doctors office and started on what may be a lifetime of medication, when in some cases the problem may reside in the parent, the sentence was so poorly written it could be interpreted to imply that all cases of A.D.H.D were possibly problems with the parents.

This was a terrible error for which I apologize for and know for sure is not true as my own son as a variation of A.D.H.D. for which he has taken Adderall for many years and it has helped him a great deal. One of our best friends, adopted two Russian children who have such severed  A.D.H.D. and other developmental and psychiatric issues that they could not live outside of an institutional setting without medications with for some children are a Godsend.

When medical issues are correctly diagnosed and the right medication is prescribed, and the correct follow-up and monitoring is in place I am a strong supporter of proper medication.

Another example I would offer is Charlotte's Web, a low THC strain of Marijuana which turns out is high in a cannaboind that turns out to be the best anti-seizure control medication in existence. Children suffering from 200 to 300 seizures a day for which no other medications have worked have had the number of seizures drop to 1 or 2 per week, or even month. Some families have been so desperate to get this for their children they have become "marijuana refugees selling their houses, quitting their jobs and moving to Colorado so their children can get relief where this medication is legally available.

This is what changed Dr Sanjay Gupta's mind about legalization of medical marijuana. He is CNNs medical correspondent and a brain surgeon.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (44+ / 0-)

    Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

    by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 04:38:19 AM PDT

  •  Another example of turning something (21+ / 0-)

    that is actually normal into a disease that is treated by medication (that not coincidentally makes a profit for both the drug company and the prescribing physician).

    Not only that, but the "problem" will almost assuredly go away with time. Toddlers grow up! Do they wean these pill popping tots off their medication, or do they keep on medicating them?

    •  No, they don't wean them off. (15+ / 0-)
      Do they wean these pill popping tots off their medication, or do they keep on medicating them?
      Are you nuts? BigPharma's GOT them! BigPharma's GOT their parents boxed in.
      Kids go into their teens still being fed these shit pills. Suicidal ideation, anyone?

      "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
      Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
      Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

      by OleHippieChick on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:22:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ritalin (10+ / 0-)

        I worked in an ER and one doctor was known as "Dr. Ritalin". If they were from 2-18, they didn't leave without a script for Ritalin. Staff hated him. He probably wrote 10 prescriptions in 12 hrs to children. 200+ a month in ER We were a very busy ER plus  he had a 5 day practice.

        He is in prison now. He fostered 40 male children and was giving them various meds to make them more accepting of his "treatment" of them.

        If I wasn't Bob Dylan, I'd probably think that Bob Dylan has a lot of answers myself. Bob Dylan

        by weezilgirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:28:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Holy crap, that's sickening. (4+ / 0-)

          Prison. Good.

          "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
          Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
          Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

          by OleHippieChick on Sun May 18, 2014 at 10:26:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Where he belongs obviously. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chimene, 207wickedgood

          For the medical ethics issues alone.

          "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

          by GreenMother on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:35:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Doctors, police officers, dentists, lawyers, etc. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wa ma

            protect their own.

            If I wasn't Bob Dylan, I'd probably think that Bob Dylan has a lot of answers myself. Bob Dylan

            by weezilgirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:56:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yea I have noticed sadly. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wa ma

              "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

              by GreenMother on Mon May 19, 2014 at 04:38:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  My ex was chief of staff (0+ / 0-)

                at our local hospital and I reported to him that I saw a GP drinking martinis at lunch. THEN the GP's  beeper went off and he announced that "she is X centimeters, I've got to deliver that baby". I was appalled. Nothing was done. My ex was a good person except when it came to his peers. Well, he turned out to be a rat but.....:)

                If I wasn't Bob Dylan, I'd probably think that Bob Dylan has a lot of answers myself. Bob Dylan

                by weezilgirl on Mon May 19, 2014 at 05:07:13 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Live and learn weezilgirl. (0+ / 0-)

                  When you see a person acting like a rat towards others, never doubt for a second, that such skills cannot and will not be used on you.

                  :)
                  Hard lesson I learned not so long ago.

                  "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

                  by GreenMother on Tue May 20, 2014 at 05:11:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  He was too perfect so no one (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    GreenMother

                    ever suspected anything. I mean this..the man had no "flaws" and I felt guilty if I got the least bit annoyed. Turns out the entire community felt the same way. He was given so many passes. Just like not reporting the doctor for delivering a baby while drunk. That was never mentioned afterwards.

                    When I found out he was a rat, I was packed and loaded to move to another state. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Life is hard.

                    If I wasn't Bob Dylan, I'd probably think that Bob Dylan has a lot of answers myself. Bob Dylan

                    by weezilgirl on Tue May 20, 2014 at 07:06:30 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That's plural, Bad Experiences--but that's okay (0+ / 0-)

                      Yes, life can be hard. But it can also be fun, and if you live through it, funny.

                      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

                      by GreenMother on Wed May 21, 2014 at 04:54:53 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I chased him one day while Indian cowboys were (0+ / 0-)

                        sleeping after an all night trip to check on me. They were in our bedroom and he and I were in the dining room. He took that moment in time to confess about his young nurse. I was whispering while chasing him. I later told a photographer in California how hard it was to cuss someone out while whispering. Dave said "at least you still have your sense of humor and it will get you through".

                        "Just when you think you've lost everything, you find out you can lose a little more." Bob Dylan

                        by weezilgirl on Wed May 21, 2014 at 09:06:32 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Motivators/Promoters (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo, smartdemmg, BusyinCA, 207wickedgood

      Things that promote and motivate this phenomenon:

      1) It is no secret that pharmaceutical companies promote to both doctors and patients greater use of medications as a way to boost their own profits.  we can thank Ronald Reagan for the law that allows pharmaceutical companies to market their medications on TV and in radio directly to patients/consumers.

      2) It is also no secret that the amount of public money (tax-payer dollars) going into medical research and disease treatments has been cut drastically over the last 30 years or so.  At the same time, the pharmaceutical companies have made large increases in the number and amounts they grant to researchers.  And because it is less expensive to find a new use for an old medication than it is to develop a new medication de novo, many of these grants are for the purpose of studying the effectiveness of existing medication in previously untried diseases, and in new patient groups (like seeing if adult medications will work for kids).

      3) Practicing physicians run a business as they treat patients: their offices and clinics.  Part of running a business is keeping your customers happy.  Consumers/patients that come to a doctors office like to leave with something in hand - like a prescription.  So even when a consumer/patient comes in complaining of "cold" symptoms, and the doctor knows "colds" are caused by viruses, the doctor will commonly prescribe an antibiotic (which only work against bacteria not viruses) because the patients wants/expects a prescription, and the doctor wants the patient to continue coming to their office, because the doctor knows that unhappy patients will keep going to other doctors until they get what they want.  The same thing happens when parents worry about their kids: doctors have a "low threshold" for giving out prescriptions.   Pediatricians often say the most challenging part of their jobs is not the kids illness, but rather managing the parents' concerns.  My point here is that patient behavior drives a lot of this prescribing behavior.  

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:01:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There is certainly truth (0+ / 0-)

        in what you write, but my perspective as a parent with a more natural approach to raising a child is that it is very challenging to find a pediatrician who won't treat you like a nutcase if you don't want to give your child an antibiotic for a cold (to prevent secondary infections!) or don't want to bring down low grade fevers with Tylenol. Fever is part of the body's immune response, but I have yet to meet a pediatrician who really seems to understand that. They think fever is a disease to be treated.

        It's not just the mindset of many parents, it's the mind set of many physicians, too.

  •  Prepare for more Lindsey Lohans... (7+ / 0-)

    I think its pure child/toddler abuse. Kids aren't suppose to have a lot of energy- so sick!!!

    "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

    "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

    by roseeriter on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:17:09 AM PDT

  •  Cut the sugar. FFS. (12+ / 0-)

    MDs are far too quick to throw a pill or 10 our way if anything is out of the norm. From overactive toddlers to adults having "anxiety" (iow, LIFE), side effects from one drug are treated with another drug as though they were legitimate symptoms of another problem. This is pure bullshit and a windfall for BigPharma, who'd love to see us ALL on some kind of Soma.
    Srsly, beware the Benzodiazepines. They are life wreckers.

    "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
    Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
    Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

    by OleHippieChick on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:18:40 AM PDT

    •  When I was a kid, (12+ / 0-)

      we had one bag of chips and one bottle of soda once a WEEK. There were no hyperactive kids in any of my classes because we played ourselves out. We played and rode bikes for miles.

      "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
      Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
      Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

      by OleHippieChick on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:30:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ha, you just reminding me of something I forgot, (15+ / 0-)

        OleHippieChick. I had three little brothers, and you just reminded me when we were young my mother had figured out some time in the evening she would send us out into the road to running around and play so were would "play ourselves out" and be ready to fall asleep at bed.

        We had to play games which involved running like "come across" and others. I haven't remembered these memories since I was maybe 5 or 6 years old and your comment just brought them all back.

        My Mom was a full time Mom and she was really smart. She was always thinking of clever management tricks like this.

        I'll bet some of our problems is with the economic need for two parents to work, and extended families broken up, a lot of kids are left on their own, or supervised by an "older sibling who might be six.

        So watching TV and playing video games may be the major form of activity, and you are right, A lot of kids are drinking  6 to 12 beverages or power drinks with extra caffeine.

        Caffeine is a powerful drug which I'm really sensitive to. If I have even one cup of coffee after about 4:00 to 5:00 p.m I will not be able to get to sleep until 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning.

        When I started doing a lot of corporate consulting in Europe the habit was to have late dinners which often stared around 8:00 pm and ended with coffee so I'd join in figuring this is just what people do.

        I wouldn't be able to sleep at all. I figured it was just nerves, but it was a big problems so my doctor gave me a prescription for Lorazepam, which could put me to sleep but made me so drowsy the next day, I could barely wake up and think. So my psychiatrist gave me a prescriptions to time released dexadrine.

        This worked for waking me up, but made me edgy so he gave me a prescription for Xanax.

        Whenever I came back to the States the problem ceased.  I finally figured out I have a hyper-sensitivity to caffeine. It also makes me really aggressive. So I would become an unholy terror in my office. Rapidly grilling employees for the basis of their thinking and pointing out flaws in their assumptions to "help" them be more successful with our clients on their next engagements.

        Finally, I just gave it up completely realizing for me caffeine is like a toxin. A poison which does things to my nervous system that shouldn't be done to a human being.

        Could it be that some of these "troubled kds" are like me - hyper-sensitive to caffeine and their parents do not realize that it shows up in beverages, power drinks, chocolates, and some of the fiber "health" bars that say "energy bars" on them?

        Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

        by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:10:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  A major caffeine reaction-palpitating heart-can (5+ / 0-)

          feel much like a panic attack and/or anxiety . Makes me wonder how many folks take anxiety drugs cause they drink TOO much coffee and haven't made that easier (safer) connection?

          "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

          "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

          by roseeriter on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:19:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, I know, I've been to Emergency Rooms many (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BusyinCA, chimene

            times thinking I was having a heart attack.

            I've spent about half of my lifetime with fairly significant chest pain, and back pain. Cymbalta helps but at higher dosages flatllines my libido. The pills that fix that make my vision really blurry, and make me feel really spacy. Caffeine can help me refocus the spaciness but then you know the rest that story.

            So I take a really low sub-clinical does of Cybalta and live with chronic chest pain. But if I ever have a real heart attack I'm probably toast.

            But, I'm probably O.K on that because of my family history of heart attack and slightly high blood pressure I've been on lisonapril for blood pressure, and and pravastatin for bloodpressure

            Oh, damn, I just remembered, by being 12.5 hours late to go to bed I'm now late on my night meds and my morning meds.

            Sheesh. This is exactly what I was afraid was going to happen. I'm really part of the night shift. I was telling all of my usual gang at OND, Top Comments, etc, that if I don't shut down before dawn,  when you day people wake up you folks will start talking and keep me up all day.

            And, I can barely get a word in edgewise. It's probably all that morning coffee you morning people drink. Us night folks are so much more "chill-axed"  (humor alert)

            Well, hey dudes and dudettes. I don't want to harsh your mellow here.

            Cheers, this time for sure, as Bullwinkle the Moose used to say.

            I just posted a quickie on Alan Grayson reporting that the top 0.1 perent, that's the richest 10% of of he top 1% own like like 22% of all American wealth while the bottom 50% own 0.0%!

            Good night.

            Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

            by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:38:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  OMG, HD, you were "piled on." (6+ / 0-)

          My bro, too, is very sensitive to caffeine and those meds. They gave you Benzos like they did to him, and piled on. Lots of ppl just swallow them and suffer unimaginable side effects: rubber legs, walls closing in, floor rippling, and BRAIN ZAPS. This occurs when you are trying to get off these short half-life meds. Their effects fade quickly and makes the body crave more than prescribed. Valium, with a longer half-life, is used to transition from the other Benzos. It's a frkn nightmare for the person who has to get off them. A lady from UK recognized the long-term problems of quitting Benzos and developed the Ashton Protocol for slow Benzo tapering, sometimes taking an entire year. They are poison, for the most part.

          "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
          Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
          Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

          by OleHippieChick on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:22:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know. I was probably what is considered (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BusyinCA

          a hyperactive child. When it got to be too much for certain relatives, they gave me a cup of coffee (no sugar) and it chilled me right out.

          Some kids might be hypersensitive to caffeine like you are--and I believe that is one aspect of normal.

          And others like me, it helps smooth ye old brain waves out. When my kids have a bad day like that, they ask for a sip of my coffee and I give it to them and they do just fine.

          BUT--and this is important. We don't keep soda, candy or cakes in the house. So their refined sugar intake is a lot lower than some kids. And that also means no added caffeine mixed with refined sugars either, barring the occasional dark chocolate bar.

          "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

          by GreenMother on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:39:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  BigPharma & Medicaid Money. Our taxes are buying (7+ / 0-)

      these Rxs for toddlers. I believe in Medicare for All, it's not that I'm begrudging anybody any medicine.
           As I sit here writing this, a local news story is saying that

      '80% of prisoners in VT have drug-related charges (heroin)'
      but the quote that made me sit up and see what story it was said:
      "...shackling their lives with drugs is another kind of prison"

      I think it's important to note the relationship between Big Pharma's synthetic heroin pills that are the gateway drug to the brown bagged stuff, according to so many stories in the news here.
         And as far as medicating children- I was an ear-infection baby and child up until age 13. Now as an adult I still feel less sluggish and more like 'myself' if I take a very mild dose of the same old-fashioned pseudephed I always took as a child but now I have to sign for because other people have used it as a gateway to meth.

      We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

      by nuclear winter solstice on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:32:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And for some of us they help us get (9+ / 0-)

      on a plane without having an anxiety attack.  Just because they didn't work for you doesn't make it the equivalent of slugging bleach.

      •  You're quite right, miss legalb (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DRo, HoundDog, FarWestGirl

        It's sort of personal for me because my bro in Korea has been placed on drug after drug by Army MDs without regard for their effects or side effects or withdrawal effects.

        "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
        Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
        Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

        by OleHippieChick on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:42:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Lets agree that it depends on the doctor. (0+ / 0-)

        There are lots and lots of drugs that do miraculous things, and some of us need those drugs from time to time for legitimate health issues.

        But there are nutritional interventions that can be taken to help treat some minor conditions, or even prevent them and that being said--there are a lot of doctors who--for whatever reason do not advocate for those interventions in favor of drugs, even when the drugs are causing harm to some of their patients.

        One man's pill is another man's poison.

        I don't see that changing ever. So it's up to us to advocate for our own health and make sure we take the pills when they are good and reject them when they are poison.

        "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

        by GreenMother on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:42:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  FYI: sugar does not cause hyperactivity (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AaronInSanDiego, denise b

      It's an old and popular meme, along with other diet based explanations for the cause of ADHD, but that doesn't make it true.

      All these years, millions of kids with real neurologically based ADHD, unadressed because parents and ignorant doctors thought they had just eaten too much sugar (or whatever fad cause was popular at the time).

      "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

      by quill on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:32:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Challenge Accepted. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        quill, RMForbes

        You lock yourself in daycare setting with 2 to 8 yr olds for a four our period. I will slide a bag of candy and some soda pop through the window.

        Your mission: SURVIVE long enough to cling to this story.

        BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA.

        "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

        by GreenMother on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:44:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  ok, prove this assertion with scientific evidence (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          denise b, ExpatGirl

          Peer reviewed scientific evidence that sugar makes normal kids hyperactive. If you google this you will learn that this has been refuted.

          The whole debate about ADHD and ADD, is riddled from all sides with false beliefs and assumptions (like "sugar makes kids hyper"), cherry picked anecdotes, CT and prejudices of various kinds. Some of the comments in this diary are prime examples.

          "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

          by quill on Sun May 18, 2014 at 12:25:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are making a ridiculous argument (0+ / 0-)

            Anyone with the slightest modicum of self awareness has experienced how our body's energy level and our mood changes with changes in diet. It's not much of a leap to extrapolate our own personal experience with refined sugar and highly processed foods onto our children.

            We have also seen quite a few of these so called peer reviewed scientific evidence manipulated to prove poisons like nicotine are totally safe for human consumption. I tend to look deeper into a topic and don't necessarily trust those so called scientific studies that argue against things that can be experienced on the personal level.

            I have seen quite of few of these studies that have been made irrelevant by narrowly defining terms and the scope of investigation. The human brain is a highly complex system and refined sugar may or may not operate directly on the mechanism thought to produce ADHD and ADD. However, that does not mean that it does not have an indirect affect on these disorders.

            Personally, I'm not willing to take the risk on my children and so teach them the value of whole foods and the danger of refined sugar and processed foods.

            Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

            by RMForbes on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:43:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sugar and additives produce temporary (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              quill

              side effects.

              ADHD and ADD are constant.

              My children eat whole foods with no additives. Junk food is confined to Fridays. Occasionally, they may sneak a candy bar or soda during the week without me knowing but their diet is very controlled.

              For years, TV and video games were also confined to Fridays and Saturdays. We read books, play games and play outdoors.

              And yet ADHD/ADD is still a constant factor for my youngest.

              The fact that you aren't willing to 'risk' your children means that you aren't dealing with the reality that I deal with. I watched my child being destroyed by ADHD/ADD despite constant dietary control, positive behavioral modification, counseling, etc., etc., etc. Medication wasn't a 'risk', it was a salvation.

              Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

              by ExpatGirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 02:30:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I was not arguing against medication per se (0+ / 0-)

                and I'm sure there are genetic factors in ADHD and ADD. But I don't think that any so called scientific study could completely eliminate refined sugar and processed foods as aggravating factors. When someone claims there is no connection and they have scientific proof I get very skeptical. I remember the studies that declared that smoking and GMO's are all completely safe. I don't buy it.  

                Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                by RMForbes on Sun May 18, 2014 at 02:50:04 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  thanks for sharing your story (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ExpatGirl, chimene, wa ma

                As someone dealing with ADD all his life, I've spent a lot of time looking into causes and "cures". The dietary cause theory realthere'sgs me because there's never been any real evidence for it, it's been refuted, and yet even doctors will still repeat this useless solution.

                ADHD/ADD is real, and is not a figment of people's imaginations. It's neuralogically based. People have it from birth through adulthood. It's not caused by diet or environment. It's not caused by watching too much TV and video games, or not playing outside enough.

                Children with ADD/ADHD can learn to cope with their different thinking style (it will never be cured) with a combination of behavioral therapy (especially mindfulness training), special educational assistance, good parenting and yes, in many cases medication.

                Personally, I see this "disorder" as not so much a disability but merely a different way of processing and reacting to the world than most people have. The disfunction is really caused by our modern industrial society's intolerance of any but "normal" thinkers.

                My wife is moderately to strongly ADHD and is a public school math teacher. She recognizes ADHD kids right away (even if their parents are oblivious or in denial) and, whereas another teacher might write them off, she applies a range of alternative teaching methods based on her own experience to help them learn. And they do learn.

                "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

                by quill on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:07:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  rejecting science is what's "ridiculous" (0+ / 0-)

              You're making a "truthy" argument, rejecting the research that refutes the "sugar causes ADHD" idea because it doesn't conform to your popular culture based beliefs.

              Sugar is really bad for lots of reasons and we should all greatly reduce our consumption of it. But, it has no effect on hyperactivity.

              "Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

              by quill on Sun May 18, 2014 at 04:06:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I do not reject science at all (0+ / 0-)

                I reject your argument that there is no possible connection between diet and ADHD and ADD because some so called scientific study said so. There are also similar studies that say they provide absolute 'proof' that GMO's are completely safe as well...I don't buy that either. I don't deny the process of science but I am very skeptical of the conclusions drawn only when the conclusions don't necessarily follow from the evidence.

                Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

                by RMForbes on Sun May 18, 2014 at 04:45:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hell I am not even bringing ADD or ADHD into (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  RMForbes

                  this conversation.

                  CANDY + Children = CHAOS.

                  PERIOD.

                  And the more kids you got together eating the candy, the effect is magnified.

                  I really truly could give a flying rats ass about what Science has to say.

                  Scientists don't run daycares, or baby sit. Some kids may be slightly less responsive to the candy than others, but they all respond.

                  If you want your kid to behave, then you always make sure before whatever event, that they have a bit of protein, carbs and water.

                  If you want your kid to act like a Reaver (shades of Firefly) give them a handful of candy and step out of the way.

                  "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

                  by GreenMother on Mon May 19, 2014 at 04:36:34 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  With all due respect (0+ / 0-)

                    You are seriously misunderstanding what ADHD actually is.

                    Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

                    by ExpatGirl on Mon May 19, 2014 at 06:11:17 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I repeat: (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      nchristine
                      Hell I am not even bringing ADD or ADHD into
                      this conversation.
                      I am speaking to the subthread about feeding kids candy and convincing oneself that it doesn't affect their behavior.

                      "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

                      by GreenMother on Tue May 20, 2014 at 05:19:47 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

  •  One of my life-long friends (45 years) was a (10+ / 0-)

    teacher's aide for years (and actually just returned to it after her husband retired). She KNOWS kids, and herself had a difficult male child (my Godson). She also took child development classes before marrying and becoming a parent. She loves kids.

    She told me years ago that the numerous kids at school on drugs for this had no business being on them that they were perfectly within "normal" for the most part. She suggested that it was largely a parenting problem, not a child's behavior problem.

    Her difficult child is now, himself, a teacher with two kids of his own.  

    A neighbor had a son on meds for this and is now attending college and is one of the mellowest kids I know, and a GREAT kid. I really can't imagine why he needed to be on meds, either.

    I think it goes back to Leave it to Beaver expectations and wanting a perfectly tamed child to exit the womb. Anything less and it's drugs for them.  A sad--and dangerous--model for parenting imho.

     

    The only hawk I like is the kind that has feathers. My birding blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

    by cany on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:19:39 AM PDT

    •  Personally (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wa ma, cany

      I think the idea that kids' behavior and personalities can be attributed entirely to how their parents are raising them is a big part of the problem. If you have a "difficult" child, you and everyone else thinks it's your fault, and that it's up to you to fix him.

      This thinking has created several generations of guilt-ridden, anxious mothers and fathers. But genetics and environmental factors other than parenting play a big part in how everyone behaves. People have far less control over who their kids are than they've been led to believe. And if they recognized it, they might not feel so driven to perfect their offspring.

  •  That's not all... (7+ / 0-)

    Psychiatry is being used to deprive disabled children of their human rights, including their liberty, their freedom of speech, and to seperate them from their families.  

    Consider the experiences of Sophia Mirza, Justina Pelletier, Karina Hansen, and "David" (story available on "Onward Through The Fog").   All of them had legitimate MEDICAL illnesses, but were involuntarily forced into psychiatric treatment in locked psych wards.   There is a strong trend in psychiatry to diagnose "somatoform" (it's all in your head) illness, which is more of a fad and a philosophy than an illness.  The trend is also to accuse parents of children with rare diseases of "medical child abuse" for failing to accept the somatoform diagnosis.  Doctors then gain complete control over the child, unhindered by any inconvenient checks and balances like parental consent.  Justina was locked in a high security psych ward for a YEAR.  You'd think she was a mass murderer, instead of a sick kid.   This is an area where there's a fad of academic research, and so doctors are hot to get their hands on a research subject.

    The progressive community is taking the heat for it, too, because we are AWOL in Justina's case and others.   When people look around to see who is doing something about this, progressivs are nowhere to be found.  The Right is owning this issue, and in this case, they are truly in the right.   I hate it when progressives just cede important issues to the Right.

    It's a shame, because there are real psychiatric illnesses where medical intervention is truly needed, and crap like this destroys trust in the profression.

    •  Define "progressives" as you've used the term here (0+ / 0-)

      are you talking about "neo-liberal Democrats" when you say that? Because that's a different kind of liberal from a "progressive".
       

      "Inevitability" diminishes free will and replaces it with self-fulfilling prophecies."--Geenius At Wrok

      by lunachickie on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:35:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm saying... (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not seeing many non-Right people over there actively trying to help her, or to pressure Deval Patrick to fix this situation.    Use whatever word you want, this is a civil rights issue, but I'm just not seeing the neo-liberals or the progressives, or whatever you want to call them, working en masse to free what amounts to a fifteen year old disabled political prison.   I've seen a diary or two over here, and I've met one or two of us over there, but there's just not much drive in this community to help free this poor kid from her imprisonment.   We have mostly ceded this issue to the Right.   And, it's even more uncomfortable, becaue the governor who is presiding over this mess is a (progressive, neo-liberal, whatever), and I can't defend him.    He is simply NOT standing up for civil rights.

        Justina is disabled.   And, because she is disabled, the courts used psychiatric evidence (claiming it was somatoform -- all in her head) to take her out of the custody of her parents, and place her in a high security psych ward.   Yet, no psych ward is going to get her out of her wheelchair and help her hair grow back, and make her guts start working right.   They've had her for about 18 months now, plenty of time to adjust her attitude, and, surprise, she's not magically cured.  Because, she didn't imagine those health problems, and developing the "right attitude" isn't going to make them go away.

        Yet, it was psychiatric evidence that took away her liberty and left her to spend a year on a "high security" psych ward.

        So, who will fight for civil rights for a sixteen year old disabled child?   It's mostly the Right who is out there visibly supporting this kid and her family.  We need to get out there and get visible, and own this issue.   It's a civil rights issue and this kid NEEDS us.  

        •  See, neo-liberals actually aren't (0+ / 0-)

          really "left". They're not even remotely close to being "progressive".

          Glad to see you narrow your broad-brush down to "here", though:

          there's just not much drive in this community to help free this poor kid from her imprisonment.
          I whole-heartedly agree with that. You should make your feelings known to the management in this community, since there are very few actual "progressives" here to carry any load, let alone this one.

          I'm not disagreeing with you about the bottom line about Justina--at all. I have a real problem with the trend to throw drugs at children so willy-nilly, and I have for years. I simply also have a real problem with people who insist on lumping everyone "on the left" into the group called "progressives", because it's simply not an accurate application of the word.

          "Inevitability" diminishes free will and replaces it with self-fulfilling prophecies."--Geenius At Wrok

          by lunachickie on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:12:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's not just this community (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            chimene

            There are a few Leftie's over there (What word do you want?   Whatever word you use, I don't see many of them over there) .   But, we are vastly outnumbered.   So much so, that many people assume we aren't even there at all.  

            Why is this civil rights issue so different from others?   If it was about marriage equality, people would show up, but since it's just some disabled kid...    I've wondered if it's because it's in a (what word do you want?    Progressive, Dem, neo-libearl) state, that the Lefties remain silent and hope no one notices the massive civil rights violation happening under their watch.   If we talk about it, it might look Deval Patrick look bad.  The problem is, people ARE talking, and he DOES look bad.   Or, if the Left (neo-liberal, progressive, Dem...) position truly is one of believing that disabled children are "better off" institutionalized under the benevolent care of the Government than left to the care of their own parents.    That's where the socialist line goes too far, and I have to get off the train.

            I don't know what's going on.   Why is this a "Right" issue, instead of a "Left" issue?

            Because, I'll tell you, my kid could be this kid.  We've felt the hair rising on the backs of our necks trying to deal with massive "Children's Hospitals" in the context of her disability, and the degree to which they try to shove you towards "counselling", "therapy", etc, and shove nasty pharmaceutical like Lyrica on you (Yes -- she was on Lyrica just long enough for us to realize how nasty that shit is, and to prove it wasn't going to magically get her back on her feet and back in school).   One of them actually suggested we, "get the parents out of the equation." (despite the fact that my other kid is perfectly healthy and on the honor roll and doing just fine -- just like Justina's sibs), and also, after treating my child for three years, when her pain spiked on biofeedback, said "Well, NOW we know that the pain she's complaining about is real."   indicating that for the past three years, she hadn't believed that my child was truly ill.   I knew more than the doctor -- I knew that pain was real.  The parent was right, and the doctor was wrong.  

            We fired the doctor, of course.  After that incident, the entire family was unanimous.   Justina's parents tried to fire HER doctor who didn't believe she had a real medical condition (a doctor that they hadn't asked for in the first place), and the doctor called and reported her to DFS.   I don't believe in God, but I've always found proverbial truth in the phrase, "There but for the Grace of God go I".   Justina is our sister.

            If I have to picket shoulder to shoulder with Right-To-Lifers and TeaBaggers to protect the civil rights of disabled children, I'll do it.   But, it does make me wonder where the Left was, when they took away almost two years of this kid's life, when they locked her in a high security psych ward because she had the incredibly bad judgment to have a disease that makes doctors look bad, when they violated her right to Free Speech so that she had to sneak notes out to her parents when her overseers weren't watching.

            When my fifteen year old girl says, "Mom, I'm going to the mall with my friends", I think of this little girl who just turned sixteen, sitting in her foster home, after transferring out of her YEAR at a high security psych ward.   I'll bet she'd love to jump in a car and go to the mall with her friends.   What did she do to deserve imprisonment, and what good is our Constitution, if it doesn't protect a kid like this?  

            Where is the outcry from the Left (progressives, neo-liberals, ...)?  

            •  Notice I didn't say the fight was any different? (0+ / 0-)

              And again, I agree with you regarding the diary matter. What do I have to do to convince you that my point was simply to point out that we should not mis-apply the word "progressives"? That's all.  

              Look,

              It's not just this community
              In your previous post, you used the words "in this community". I don't know why, beyond that, why you feel the need to re-argue the diary.
              There are a few Leftie's over there (What word do you want?  
              "Lefties" is perfectly generic; and since you asked, that word works fine for me. While progressives tend to be "lefties", not all "lefties" are progressive.

              "Inevitability" diminishes free will and replaces it with self-fulfilling prophecies."--Geenius At Wrok

              by lunachickie on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:27:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not sure it matters (0+ / 0-)

                I'm losing faith that any of those labels mean anything.   "Democrat" worked fine for me.   Then, that word was out, and "progressive" was the trendy label,, so I tried to switch to that.   Now, there's "neo-liberal", but there are some arcane rules that apply to every one of those words, so that no matter when you use them,  you got it wrong somehow, just as you pointed out just now.  

                I give up.    Clearly, all of these groups think they're someone DIFFERENT from the rest of us, who need to distinguished and set apart, so that leaves me right out, I guess.  The point is to make sure someone understands that they DON'T belong, right?   OK.   I got the message.

                •  That's the whole idea! (0+ / 0-)

                  Mis-appropriation renders them meaningless. Which is precisely why they shouldn't be mis-used.
                   

                  "Democrat" worked fine for me.  
                  It should continue to work just fine for you. Being a "trend-setter" and then worrying when you don't get it right or worrying or going on and on because someone else simply corrected you over a word usage seems...I don't know, the word "disingenuous" springs to mind.
                  Then, that word was out, and "progressive" was the trendy label,, so I tried to switch to that.   Now, there's "neo-liberal",

                  What's wrong with simply sticking to the word "Democrat"? It worked fine for you!

                   

                  "Inevitability" diminishes free will and replaces it with self-fulfilling prophecies."--Geenius At Wrok

                  by lunachickie on Sun May 18, 2014 at 02:12:54 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  America has a drug problem. (10+ / 0-)

    And it is not those illegal ones.  It starts ad the DR's office.

    I'm amazed how folks think everything can be cured by a pill.  There are multiple causes for this, but drug advertizing is high on my list of primary suspects.  This in turn puts presssure on doctors to prescribe unnecessary drugs due to the pressures they get from patients.

    Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

    by DRo on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:20:58 AM PDT

    •  The first drug I took (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo, HoundDog, Cedwyn

      was my mom's amphetamines. Frkn horse pills. Mother's BIG helpers. 1965. She was "depressed."

      "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
      Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
      Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

      by OleHippieChick on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:26:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  OTOH (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo, wa ma

      ADHD is a real disease, and many children are helped tremendously by treatment--and, yes, by pills. My goddaughter had serious issues from puberty on; she was constantly in trouble in and out of school--including getting the attention of law enforcement, was starting to experiment with illegal drugs (at a very young age), & her grades were in the toilet. My best friend was very against the idea of medicating her daughter, she thought it was a copout and the lazy way out, and she didn't want to give the kid more drugs. But finally she got to the end of her rope and realized that antidepressants had helped her a great deal, so she put her daughter on stimulants. And my goddaughter became a different person, much more like the little girl she had been. After that, she found different friends, her grades went up to the honor roll, she joined the school's award-winning chorus, and eventually graduated high school and is now currently in nursing school. If she hadn't been medicated, I hate to think what her life would be like.

      I'm horrified by the idea of diagnosing toddlers with ADHD and medicating them. A healthy toddler should appear to have ADHD, that's what toddlers are. I'm not talking about the few toddlers who are on the extreme edges of the spectrum. If parents and caregivers can't handle their children, they need help, not drugs. I can't imagine what those drugs are doing to the developing brains of those toddlers.

      •  Over drugging is not limited to toddlers (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        roseeriter, RMForbes

        It is happening from infants all the way to the aged.  And the animals that become out foodstock. Witness the warnings about antibiotics becoming usless because of over use.

        Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

        by DRo on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:59:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes. I think it's important to acknowledge that (0+ / 0-)

        there may be more toddlers today with more extreme and serious versions of ADHD than there were in the past and that that is what is driving some of this increase in medications. Just like there are rapidly increasing numbers of kids diagnosed with autism, there are more kids being diagnosed with ADHD.

        It's possible some of those kids are being diagnosed improperly but it's also likely there is a true increase. And it seems like for toddlers and young kids with severe ADHD that some kind of early intervention therapy could be developed to be used to help these kids instead of medicating them.

        If a toddler has ADHD severe enough to require medication they should be receiving birth-to-three services in their homes or after turning 3 should be enrolled in their school district's preschool program to receive services like other young children with special needs. With some early and appropriate behavioral therapy it's possible many of these kids would not need to be medicated.

        This is an article about mindfulness training being used for teens and adults to treat ADHD.  Exercising the Mind to Treat Attention Deficits It seems like some kind of brain training could be used in young kids too.

  •  Terrible (3+ / 0-)

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:23:46 AM PDT

  •  NPR Report Some Yrs Ago Said 80% of the Time (11+ / 0-)

    when an upper class toddler asks a question, the parents answer and engage. 80% of the time when a poverty kid asks a question, generally pan-ethnicity, the parents tell them to quit pestering.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to foresee how these two different approaches will lead to differential preparedness for the start of education in just a few years.

    Combine this with the "foodstamp holiday" experiments of the occasional pundit or politician which experience consistently confirms that poverty is immensely time consuming, and you have the main explanation for the poverty parental response to the energetic inquisitive child. The parents are out of time and just plain beat.

    So of course when they go for medical care they're going to present as having kids who are more problematic than the kids of well rested comfortable middle and upper class parents who have time energy and enthusiasm for engaging with energetic kids.

    And we haven't even looked at poverty factors that could directly exacerbate kids' behavior and attention. We went through one round of this not so long ago with lead in gasoline and paint.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:29:17 AM PDT

    •  Read Medication Madness by Dr. Peter Beggin- (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DRo, HoundDog, bewild, Darwinian Detrius

      It's worse than most can imagine.

      Did anyone ever even hear of autism, ADHD etc back in the 60s? Yeah there were kids who 'disrupted' class, but most of them, in hind-sight- came from alcoholic, neglectful, and abusive homes which apparently is still quite prevalent, so the new kids get amphetimines/Adderall, Ritilin etc.,

      I guess what's being taught to young parents now a days, if you don't have a well-behaved, perfect-mannered child you must drug them. Control, Control, Control..and punish anyone who 'can't' be controlled.  So effin' SAD and wrong!!!

      "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

      "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

      by roseeriter on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:47:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually (4+ / 0-)

        I had most of the symptoms of ADHD and one or two more over half of them for Aspergers back in the school days of the '60s and '70s and the college days of the '80s. I half wish that stuff was understood back then instead of being picked on by the kids and teachers for "you don't half to be a weirdo spazz if you don't to want to be!" OTOH, I'm half glad that I missed out on being overly-medicated into being just another numb and dumb normal because mommy or teacher didn't want to work that hard.

        BTW, I recently found out that there was a Catholic School Folk Cure back in the days when ADD was "something not in any medical books" and "And I know this goes against intuitation, but give your kid a big cup of coffee before school." This Protestant kid in public school wishes that he had that advice to make school and college less miserable.

        "If this Studebaker had anymore Atomic Space-Age Style, you'd have to be an astronaut with a geiger counter!"

        by Stude Dude on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:27:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My younger brother had ADHD in the 70s (3+ / 0-)

          or the symptoms of it, anyway. This was probably around 1978-79. They didn't have Adderall back then, so our doctor recommended that he drink coffee. My other siblings and I were extremely jealous (even though I've never liked coffee and wouldn't have drunk it if allowed.) We didn't get much caffeine as a regular thing, we didn't drink soda except as a treat--I can specifically remember asking for soda as part of my birthday dinner, so it was definitely a treat. The caffeine didn't cure his issues, as my brother was extremely dyslexic as well, but it did help. Maybe this was back when the first reports of stimulants helping kids with hyperactivity came out.

      •  Did anyone ever hear of Lyme disease or (5+ / 0-)

        Legionnaire's or toxic shock syndrome in the 1960s?

        Autism and ADHD exist. Those children you dismiss were called 'problems' and suffered terrible self-esteem issues as a result. Through no fault of their own, they were handicapped in the classroom and their prospects in life suffered because of it. Statistically, they were far more likely to turn to drugs and alcohol to cope because, why not, they were losers and trouble makers anyway.

        Ever looked at brain scans of people who have ADHD?
        adhd-hyperactivity

        Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

        by ExpatGirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:47:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Under-diagnosing and over-diagnosing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FarWestGirl

          and mis-diagnosing are all bad practice.

          Two of these can feed a profit motive. Our current culture is profits-above-all, hence why over-diagnosing and mis-diagnosing are currently the larger problems.

          "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

          by nosleep4u on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:16:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  another reeking dead elephant in the room, (0+ / 0-)

      (being ignored) is that there are precisely NO pre-qualifications for bearing a child other than having the correct anatomy.

      This is,  of course,  becuz freedumb,  and I expect to be beaten for even daring to mention this inconvenient truth.

      don't always believe what you think

      by claude on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:49:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, I think it's important not to blame the (0+ / 0-)

      victims of poverty (that includes the parents) for the effects of poverty. I think it's really hard to determine what is cause and what is effect. Like you said, the stress of poverty does so much to impact a parents ability to function well.

      I'm reminded of this study that was reported earlier this year. What Happens When the Poor Receive a Stipend?

      The poorest children tended to have the greatest risk of psychiatric disorders, including emotional and behavioral problems. But just four years after the supplements began, Professor Costello observed marked improvements among those who moved out of poverty. The frequency of behavioral problems declined by 40 percent, nearly reaching the risk of children who had never been poor. Already well-off Cherokee children, on the other hand, showed no improvement. The supplements seemed to benefit the poorest children most dramatically.
      You mention the parents being well rested possibly making a difference and that made me think that maybe kids living in poverty are less likely to be well rested than kids not living in poverty. They're probably living in a smaller space with more people in possibly a more densely populated and noisier setting. On top of that, going to bed hungry will likely make it more difficult for a child to sleep. A child who is not getting good sleep is typically going to be more impulsive and less focused and less able to regulate their mood.

      The study about how the parents respond to questions is interesting. I wonder if they considered that a child with ADHD will possibly be asking their parents more questions and interrupting their parents more than a typical child who would be more capable of engaging in an activity independently or playing with a sibling without conflict. Maybe some of the differences they see in how a parent responds is affected by a real difference in how the child is functioning and the kids living in poverty aren't functioning as well as the other kids primarily because of the effects of poverty on the child. I don't know.

      You mentioned lead paint and gasoline, and I wonder if poor kids are maybe getting exposed to more pesticides than other kids. It's just so hard, I think, with something like ADHD to figure out causation even if we can determine some correlations.

      I wonder how toddlers in the European countries that do more to support parents of young kids are faring.

  •  I was with you until... (13+ / 0-)
    We should not be surprised if in some, if not many of the cases, much of the problem lie in the parents, or the whole family as a system, something a parent making a single visit to a doctors office, or social workers is not even remotely equipped to diagnose or treat.
    I have two kids with ADHD and although we know zero about the circumstances of their birth, they were born in Russia so we suspect their birth others were likely to be alcoholics. I don't know if that contributes to their ADHD, but I promise you there are few kids out there with symptoms worse than my two.

    As toddlers, I handled it. Watching them every second, redirecting (time outs and punishments don't work) and trying to keep them busy. But preschool was another matter. We were fortunate to find an amazing preschool -- but it was a co-op, so we moms were the assistant teacher on a rotating basis. I had many "friendly" conversations about just how active Kgirl1 was with a list of all the things she got into or words that she blurted out. If we lived in the South, every story would be followed by "bless her heart"...

    My daughter went to preschool for 2.5 hours, four days a week. If I was a working mom and put her in daycare, I'm sure I would have gotten a lot more than "cute" stories. I'm quite sure I would have had to do something or find another daycare.

    I did NOT medicate my kids as toddlers -- I absolutely agree with you that it is a tragedy. But you're a bit glib in saying it's parents who are just looking for an easy quick fix and are unwilling to take the time to find a better treatment. I would bet that the vast majority of those kids are about to be tossed out of daycare and the parents are desperately trying to keep their jobs and feel they have no alternative...

    “Poverty doesn’t only consist of being hungry for bread, but rather it is a tremendous hunger for human dignity.” Mother Teresa

    by theKgirls on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:35:00 AM PDT

    •  The parents may be desperate but the (9+ / 0-)

      doctors are irresponsible.

      Like you, I have a child with ADHD. For children and adults who actually have it, the condition can be devastating to self-esteem, academic performance, family life and so much more.

      But it is impossible to diagnose in toddlers - indeed I wonder if all toddlers don't have ADHD simply because of the realities of brain development. And it is imperative to be able to get feedback from a child who is taking the medications because of possible side-effects.

      I understand desperate parents. I don't understand a physician who would prescribe these meds to toddlers.

      Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

      by ExpatGirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:03:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree 100% (8+ / 0-)

        But the diary said the problem lies with the parents.

        I talked to our pediatrician about my daughters to see if they fit within the "norm" and she confirmed that they definitely fall within the "high activity" category. And then she recommended activities, books on high activity kids, adjustments to diet, etc.

        I turned to our trusted doctor. She did exactly the right thing. The pediatricians who instead recommend medication at least share the blame with parents who are requesting it, as do the daycare/schools who are demanding that junior needs meds to get through the day.

        “Poverty doesn’t only consist of being hungry for bread, but rather it is a tremendous hunger for human dignity.” Mother Teresa

        by theKgirls on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:28:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with your point I was talking only about (5+ / 0-)

      toddlers, not older children. I know the meds work with older kids, my own son has a form of A.D.H.D. and responded well to Adderall which he still takes.

      I miscommunicated my point theKgirls. I'm sorry. Let me go change that now.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:18:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No need to apologize... (5+ / 0-)

        Like you, I'm completely horrified by toddlers on medication.

        My kids are now in high school and middle school and medication is a help, but certainly not a cure. I'm probably feeling a bit defensive because of all the school meetings I've been attending lately because my kids just aren't making it...

        I can't tell you how many times the school personnel questions medications and ask if maybe we should increase dosages. I politely tell them that maybe we should stop assuming all kids have to fit in their very neat boxes. Maybe they need to find a way for all kids to succeed (and that's NOT meant as a slam on teachers -- it's a slam on our culture of testing and rigidity and conformity.)

        “Poverty doesn’t only consist of being hungry for bread, but rather it is a tremendous hunger for human dignity.” Mother Teresa

        by theKgirls on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:36:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm sorry to hear this. I start to cry every time (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theKgirls, ExpatGirl, FarWestGirl, wa ma

          I think about what happened to my son. He's doing great now, and won a full scholarship to Case Western Reserve.

          But my ex-wife surprise me with an ambush divorce when he was 4, and we had an 11 year custody battle in te probate court.

          She made him repeat kindergarden, in what I believe was a crass, self-serving attempt to convince the court he was disabled so she could break our 50%-50% custody, arrangement, and gain sole custody, so she could increase the amounts of child support

          When he was in 2nd grade he once burst into tears, put his head against the wall to keep from falling over and wail, "Dad, do you know what it is like to be the dumbest kid in the whole class?"

          He's not dumb at all he's brain is structured differently just like mine is. We are primarily spatial relations thinkers. They thought I might be "retarded too" and I was also a breach birth my parents were teaching me since I could remember to see if I had brain damage.

          Later on test of spatial relationship and math I scored like, 99.9%

          So I did my best to explain Howard Gardner's Theory of the Seven Learning Styles and Kinds of Intelligence.

          But, when I took him down to the Massachusetts General Hospital for Cognitive Testing as part of our Probate Court battle the insensitive assholes had a sign in five foot tall letters saying Learning Disability Center, instead of Learning Styles Center.

          When I first came her 9.5 years ago and start posting the only comments I could get was people making fun of my spelling and missing words except for ek hornbeck who would drop in an make kind and encouraging comments which I still appreciate him for. There were a few others too.  

          As a tribute to his kindness and what it meant me, as well as a discipline of karma, I made a commitment to myself to find at least 20 new or under appreciated writers here a week who seem not to be getting any comments and drop in and say something encouraging.  

          I can't tell you how many times the school personnel questions medications and ask if maybe we should increase dosages. I politely tell them that maybe we should stop assuming all kids have to fit in their very neat boxes. Maybe they need to find a way for all kids to succeed (and that's NOT meant as a slam on teachers -- it's a slam on our culture of testing and rigidity and conformity.)
          I know exactly what you mean. I have to remind myself that this psychological tendency is just another variation of the broad spectrum of diversity like my son and I so I need to understand and appreciate them the way I wish they would understand and appreciate us.

          But is sometime hard not to thinks that those people who have a compulsion to 'fit us into their net mental boxes" are darn annoying while people like my son and I are fun and charming.

          I'm reminded of that joke.

          "There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that like to divide people into two kinds, and fit us into their neat little boxes and those that don't."

          "And those people who like to divide us into two kinds, and fit us into their net little conceptual boxes are an annoying pain in the ass!"  (humor alert!)

          I haven't been to bed yet, so I better go, theKgirls. If I don't clear out of here and go to bed before the day people wake up I could end up talking here all day

          Cheers and sorry about that poorly written sentence.    

          Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

          by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:24:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It was a similar scene with my son (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HoundDog, theKgirls, wa ma

            that got me to start thinking maybe the issues we were dealing with were neurological. There are few things as painful as seeing your beloved 10 year old child sob about how fundamentally defective he feels because "things just don't come into his brain".

            After three weeks of being on Ritalin, my babe came to me with a big smile one morning and said "It's Monday!". I asked, "what has you so excited about Monday?". His reply? "It is a Ritalin day and I can't explain it but I just never get in trouble on Ritalin days!"

            Proper diagnosis and medication changed my child's life and he is THRIVING. More importantly, he is happy and confident. As a parent, I can't ask for more than that.

            Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

            by ExpatGirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:25:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  {{{{{{{{{Hound Dog}}}}}}}}} n/t (0+ / 0-)

            Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
            ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

            by FarWestGirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 01:13:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  My heart goes out to you. (4+ / 0-)

          I am all too familiar with the saga of dealing with schools.

          We face a constant uphill battle to educate about what it means to have 'predominantly inattentive' ADHD. People unfamiliar with the day-to-day realities of ADHD don't realize that the core issue is not about energy levels, it is about executive functioning.

          Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

          by ExpatGirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:27:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  What do you think of it now theKgirlls. I totally (5+ / 0-)

      agree with your comment, so took out the confusing paragraph and added two additional one making the point you make here, and I am going to add a note and h/t to you in an update.

      BTW my significant others best friend adopted two children from Russia and both have severe A.D.H.D. and other issues,as well, and She knows other couples who have adopted Russian children who've ended up with issues.

      I've begun to suspect this is Russia's "health-care" solution for taking care of their their A.D.H.D., autistic, and developmentally disabled foster children.

      Thanks for bringing this miscommunicatio/error to my attention theKgirls.  

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:31:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What kind of doctor would give a toddler (5+ / 0-)

    ADHD meds? That is disgusting.

    My son has ADHD (predominantly inattentive) and takes Concerta when school is in session. It has changed his life and I have no regrets about making the decision to go the medication route since nothing we did in the years before his diagnosis (by a pediatric neurologist) helped him in the least. We tried a period of going off the meds and the results were disastrous. I will never put him through that again.

    We spent YEARS trying to figure out what was going on. ADHD is about MUCH more than just having high energy. In making a diagnosis, our doctor required pages and pages of documentation about varying symptoms and their severity. We were required to submit forms from all of his teachers. The doctor spent several hours with my son performing different executive functioning tests (many are really interesting, by the way).

    After the meds (initially short-acting Ritalin) were prescribed, his teachers were required to submit daily feedback reports for several weeks. Everyday, I had to question my child about how he was feeling. And each month when I needed a new script (in South Africa, ADHD drugs are not prescribed on a refill basis), I had to provide that feedback to his doctor.

    Who are these assholes chucking toddlers on psycho-pharmaceuticals? And what kind of crappy parent would do such a thing?

    Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

    by ExpatGirl on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:50:06 AM PDT

    •  Your experiences matches my experience with my (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ExpatGirl

      son. Without the meds he was failing with the meds he gets straight A and scores in the 99% on IQ. Same in college.

      If he stop he becomes totally disorganized and just watches TV on the meds the professors tell him he one of the best students they've ever had - at Case Western Reserve!

      I don't understand it.

      But I agree with you about Toddlers

      And, that one doctor says the symptoms present the same way as depression or anxiety.  

      Whoa!!

      I wish I was a billionaire so I could set up a Sanctuary and Consumer Guardian Agency. And, get full time people like ourselves who are dedicated to doing the right thing for people and just try to fix all of these problems.

      Our current system sucks.

      Every single day, we read about 100 plus post a day like this one. Of real life people, toddlers, poor people or just even regular people falling through the cracks, having their lifes destroyed, for stupid crap we know how to fix.

      How sad.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:33:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The diary hit home. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, roseeriter, blue jersey mom, HoundDog

    I was "difficult" for my parents (who were themselves very troubled, who had all kinds of issues, but we weren't supposed to talk about that).  Fortunately, I grew up in the 70s. If I'd grown up in a more recent decade, I'd have been medicated up the yin-yang for normal, childlike behavior. Bet on it.

    This is a powerful remark, about young children "not towing the line" in terms of their behavior:

    We should not be surprised if in some, if not many of the cases, much of the problem lie in the parents, or the whole family as a system, something a parent making a single visit to a doctors office, or social workers is not even remotely equipped to diagnose or treat.
    It has far-reaching implications for society. Are you listening, RW-ers, and authoritarians of all stripes?

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sun May 18, 2014 at 05:58:03 AM PDT

    •  I hear you karmsy. I took this paragraph out. (0+ / 0-)

      I meant just for toddlers and just for some cases, like if the parents, were alcoholics, drug addicts, sociopaths, mentally ill, severely narcissistic, immature or selfish.

      But some people thought I was saying all parents of all A.D.H.D children are probably bad which is totally not what I was saying, as my own son, and maybe I have it.

      But, I've been up all night and haven't been to bed yet..(My suprachiasmatic nucleus is totally out of whack (20,000 neurons which regulate circadian rhythms) so I'm crashing and do not have the concentration to try to rewrite it. So I just took it out.

      sorry. The family systems therapies is a really cool idea.

      Thanks for commenting karmsy. I'm glad you kept a copy of this paragraph. You are the only one who has it.  

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:41:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why Give Babies "Meth"? Cannabis Works! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog, RMForbes

    Without Addiction, Organ Damage along with a myriad of other social/physical harms from long term use.
    Aromatherapies are sometimes quite effective for some...
    However,  I highly doubt these babies need Any medication...I have never seen a "lazy" toddler unless they were ill--and as a matter of fact--for this "G'ma" being around My "G'kids" IS by far the Best aerobic workout Ever :)
    So, WTF is this really all about?

    •  yup- use a bottle-bong and no problems... (0+ / 0-)

      sounds like a potential winner on the Sharks...lol

      It's hard enough teaching a child to blow his nose, can you imagine teaching a child to inhale, hold it, hold it....OY

      "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

      "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

      by roseeriter on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:07:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and from one G'ma to another, I'd be bed-ridden if (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fredamae, RMForbes

        it weren't for the regular dose of High Energy grandson visits!!!  Energy is catchy and needed:)

        "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

        "It's said that the honest man has nothing to hide. Not true. The honest man has to hide himself, because honest men are the prime targets of those who lie."

        by roseeriter on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:09:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ummm, no (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wa ma

        patients are given a Very, very low dose in an oil form-sublingually or in edibles--with near Zero THC (Psychoactive compound).

        •  No paranoia against THC necessary (0+ / 0-)

          In concentrated cannabinoid oils with higher concentrations of CBD it really doesn't matter if there is also THC present as long as the CBD to THC ratio of at least 1.5 to 1 or better in maintained. CBD kills the THC high while allowing the medicinal benefits of THC to remain. There is no real reason to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water.  

          Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

          by RMForbes on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:52:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  No roseeriter. That's not how medical MJ works (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RMForbes

        I have no opinion of MJ for ADHD, but it is used successfully to treat children with serious seizure disorders.

        It's usually as an extract or an oil.

        Pot smoking would expose the patient to inhalation of particulate matter. It's funny to joke about but not the way to use it in this situation.

        "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

        by GreenMother on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:52:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's not "meth" it is Ritaline. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wa ma

      Charlottes Web is a strain of Cannabis with low THC but high levels of a certain cannaboid effective in seizure control.

      Generally I do not favor given anyone under 21 Cannibis for similar reason I wouldn't give them amphetamines, etc, unless there was a good reason, their brains, and neural connections are still developing.

      One study has found that for people prone to Schizophrenia (about 1% of the population) heavy marijuana use precipitates it earlier and makes the symptoms worse.

      However it you have a child having 200 - 300 seizures a day you have a benefit/cost trade-off and I would not blame any parent who chooses to do it.

      My understanding is it is used in the form of an oil that is rubbed on the skin.

      My guess is that "Big Pharm" companies will isolate the active cannaboid and synthesize it so the children do not have to have any THC..

      However it could also be the best therapy is a mix of the 30 plus cannoboid, and isolating just one wlll not be as effective. I do not know.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:49:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ritalin Is Methylphenidate (0+ / 0-)

        http://www.drugs.com/...
        I don't recommend Cannabis for normal High Energy kids--but some Do have detectable difficulties early on. They should not be given "Meth" when there are other natural remedies that should be tried First, imo.

      •  Herbal cannabinoids produced by the resin glands (0+ / 0-)

        located almost exclusively in the female flowers of the cannabis genus of plants react with our body's endocannabinoid system which regulates many of our major organic systems, like blood chemistry, metabolism and the immune system at the cellular level. There are over 80 known cannabinoid drugs found in cannabis resins which work better in concert with one another than when separated and synthesized into a single cannabinoid drug.

        We already know much about how the major cannabinoids react with the endocannabinoid system. We also know that the cannabinoid drug, Cannabidiol or CBD, kills the THC high when present in high enough concentrations. The real trick is to find a strain of cannabis that produces the correct proportions of these cannabinoid drugs to treat the individual as part of a more holistic treatment plan which might also include a dietary change. The real problem is the tendency of modern medicine to treat by separation instead of looking to reintegrate back into the whole. It's a matter of basic worldview.    

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Sun May 18, 2014 at 12:24:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Every time here at dKos when I say that Big Pharma (8+ / 0-)

    has way too much control over American doctors and the American medical research community, especially when it comes to psychiatric drug prescriptions, I am attacked, accused of CT and handed tinfoil hats.

    All I can say is the only explanation for why toddlers are given stimulants for ADHD is that I am correct.

    And let me add that while I am most certainly NOT a Scientologist and consider them a cult, I do think that if the properties of fish oil, Vitamin D and niacin were more widely known, the rate of psychiatric prescriptions would plummet.

    •  You are safe here cordgrass. If anyone picks on (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cordgrass, GreenMother

      you just give a call, and I'll come over an bark at them, and pee on their shoes and tell them it is raining. Woof, woof!

      Some people here enjoy seeing if they can shake people up. Just ignore them.  

      When I was bullied my father would tell me "Don't let the bastards get you down!" After that Kindergarten was a lot easier to take.

      I do have to crash pretty soon as I was supposed to go to bed 11 hours ago. I'm a little off cycle.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:55:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is truly disturbing. (4+ / 0-)

    When my three sons were little, they were wild. It is developmentally appropriate. Yes, they were challenging to care for, but they were kids, for Pete's sake. I dread to think what would have happened to them if they had been medicated.

  •  how many parents (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog

    are meth-heads or messed up people, who do nothing more than get the drugs for their kids, then crush them and snort them themselves?  And don't say it is bunk, because I know of several people who do exactly that, but the cops won't do anything.  I really need to become a mad scientist and make a virus that would make these drugs cause pain instead of euphoria...    [hmm, monologuing needs a little more polishing, where did I put that thesaurus?]

    ADHD is a good thing - it keeps mad scientists from following through on their evil projects!

    ''The guarding of military and diplomatic secrets at the expense of informed representative government provides no real security for our Republic.'' - Justice Hugo L. Black of the Supreme Court

    by geekydee on Sun May 18, 2014 at 06:54:28 AM PDT

    •  I never thought of this. Hey you may have just (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      geekydee

      figured out a big deal here geekydee.

      I hope this is true because this wouldn't be anywhere near as upsetting as medicating toddlers.

       

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Comments and Posts intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited.

      by HoundDog on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:58:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  unfortunatley, it is probably both :( (0+ / 0-)

        Does anyone know if Missouri is still number one in meth labs/production?

        ''The guarding of military and diplomatic secrets at the expense of informed representative government provides no real security for our Republic.'' - Justice Hugo L. Black of the Supreme Court

        by geekydee on Sun May 18, 2014 at 09:33:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That thought occurred to me. Also, parents who are (0+ / 0-)

      not drug users might sell the meds for money. Trying to think optimistically, I hope they would use the money for the benefit of their kids but maybe some use it for their own benefit.

  •  Stop feeding kids ... (5+ / 0-)

    Fast/Processed/Junk/ Foods. It's full of sugar, salt, caffeine, preservatives, chemicals, hormones, and devoid of necessary vitamins and minerals for proper physical and mental development.
    What do you think is going to happen to these young bodies when they are assaulted with this crap?? ADHD is one symptom.
    I know the 21st century children's diet is convenient, but at what cost??
    Dominos pizza, McDonalds happy meals, Kraft macaroni and cheese, and Coke are a recipe for disaster.


    If music be the food of love, then laughter is it's queen, and likewise, if behind is in front, then dirt in truth is clean.

    by glb3 on Sun May 18, 2014 at 07:28:15 AM PDT

  •  I have a Nephew, Granted He wasn't (0+ / 0-)

    a Toddler at the time, But the fact was Oh he has ADD, Give Him Pill's. Or so they said, That was when the Down fall began for Him. Then 1 Pill led to another and another, Then a Cocktail of Pills, To handle the Problem. He got into some Minor scrapes with the Law, More Pills that just turned Him into a Zombie more or less, Well He went away for a while. The Pills continued. No ambition nothing, Might as well have been doing Coke, Same thing. Went away again. This time upon getting out, He said Uncle Bearsguy, I'm sick of these damn Pills. Fair enough, I see what they are doing to you.  In a nutshell, I pretty much told Everyone, Family included they were a Idiot's for allowing this to happen, Got really heated with the PO, You name it, I got Him off, He was  pretty much Normal, For 5-6 Months after getting this Crap out of His system. Gee, Who would have thought!! Turns out He went to a Party, Passed out threw up, Left on his own, Btw, I am a 1st responder, Among other things. Got called out for an Unresponsive Pt. Arrived on Scene, PD put him on o2, My Cohort, yelled get a Back board, We got to get this Person out, I grabbed it , Went up stairs at this Apt Holy Crap, PT turned out to be MY Nephew. We wound up saving Him, Lucky, 2 weeks ICU. He recovered. But He got in more trouble went away for a year, The Pill Cycle started all over again, Never has been the same since. Back to being a Zombie, Ridiculous. This is what Some, I don't know who, WILL experience this, That Magic Pill, It's not so Magic after all. Sorry for the Rant, This is Reality.

    Don't confuse Confidence with Arrogance.

    by bearsguy on Sun May 18, 2014 at 08:07:32 AM PDT

  •  I wonder what percentage is a different problem? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wa ma

    The article did say a great number are on Medicaid... I wonder what percentage aren't actually giving their kids the drugs, but fencing them for money?

    Is that better or worse than the initial assumption?

  •  Two possibilities (0+ / 0-)

    1) The claimed epidemic of ADHD and so-called Autism Spectrum Disorders are a social construct. The brains of children did not evolve under selection pressures to sit still all day in a classroom. Kids' brains normally develop in ways that require huge amounts of motor activity. Kids vary in how well they can adjust to the evolutionarily odd demands we now place on them for protracted stillness. Some can conform, and some cannot -- and we label the ones who cannot conform "ADHD".

    2) There is a widespread environmental toxin at work. The reported incidence patterns do not suggest a pathogen as the cause.

    We should be doing research into both of these possibilities. Instead, we enrich Big Pharma by shoving drugs into the inconvenient kids.

    American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

    by atana on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:07:43 AM PDT

  •  I have ADHD and am on the autism spectrum. (0+ / 0-)

    My father would have no trouble getting a formal diagnosis. My mother's father was an engineer, as are several of the men in that family. We are all a little bit odd in that unique autistic fashion.

    The diagnosis of two of my three children was a relief, because then I could say, oh, THAT's why we're all a little odd! and not be upset about it.

    The three boys all have ADHD as well; the elder two, like me, have the inattentive type. The younger is hyperactive like his father.

    We medicate me and the two older boys so we can pay attention to things like work and remembering to take your homework with you to school. Not to suppress anyone's energy. We medicate the younger boy so that he has the ability to close his mouth and listen in class. He's always had the desire....he's a good kid...but he couldn't help being disruptive. A little Concerta gives him the ability to use this energy towards his schoolwork.

    My unmedicated husband cannot just sit still and read a book. He must be Up, Doing Something. At the moment, he's professionally sedated. It has been odd to see him still, hear him silenced. I wonder who he would have been had he had proper medication in his teens and twenties.

    Help me get my utilities on! I can't eat this elephant by myself. http://www.gofundme.com/8xw014

    by Alexandra Lynch on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:22:55 AM PDT

  •  That is disturbing and sick. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wa ma

    And how is this going to affect the development of their brain later on in life? Or cognition?

    Yikes!

    "It were a thousand times better for the land if all Witches, but especially the blessing Witch, might suffer death." qtd by Ehrenreich & English. For Her Own Good, Two Centuries of Expert's Advice to Women pp 40

    by GreenMother on Sun May 18, 2014 at 11:33:49 AM PDT

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