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I have been planning forever to do a follow up diary on Libya. If you have been following me here you know that no sooner than the Libyan revolution was moving into the clean-up phase of the military campaign, that I found my focus dramatically driven to downtown Los Angeles. Even the death of Mummar Qaddafi became a footnote to events.

I had already done all that I knew to support their revolution from afar, and while, in the age of the Internet, not all politics is local, most of it still is. Occupy Los Angeles became my new beat. Anyway, it seemed that the longer I waited to do this diary, the better and more solid the news became. Then today an interview with Ali Ahmida came out and it is absolutely the best summation I've heard on the current situation in Libya. More about that below the fold.

I never entirely lost track of events in Libya and mostly I have been very pleased with what is happening and the progress they have been making.

Even the question of the armed militias that is the big bugaboo that most commentators of the left and right, not to mention the present Libya government and the TNC, seem to worry so much about, doesn't bother me that much. Certainly it can be a major problem if they start fighting among themselves, and that is why everyone wants them gone. You beat Qaddafi. Good. Thanks. Go home. Get a regular job.

On the other hand, they made this revolution, they truly are a people's army and many of them say they are not ready to lay down their arms until they can be sure they get the government they have been fighting for. I support that position, as long as they don't start fighting among themselves.

So I have had a close ear to the ground, as have most Libya watchers, for signs of conflict. I saw a tweet "Gun fire, not celebratory, many areas of Tripoli" in mid November, but could find no corroboration. There was another incident, not widely publicize, on December 11, between a Zintan militias and the Libyan army over control of the Tripoli airport in which four people were killed and this more recent incident in Tripoli in which five people were killed. I heard three different stories about that. One said someone from Tawergha assaulted someone from Misrata, was arrested by the Tripoli brigade, then the Misrata brigade tried to take custody and a fight broke out. Another story also called it a fight between those two brigades but for a different reason. And the third story was that it was simply a robbery gone wrong and the robbers shot it out with the Tripoli brigade.

That is all I've heard about since October, nine people killed in inter-militias fighting in this country of 7 million in this immediate post military phase. I think that is pretty damn good; which is to say I think it compares very favorably with the number of people killed in inter-gang warfare in Los Angeles in the same period. So I don't worry too much about the militias because the militias, they call themselves brigades, seem to be handling things very well to this point.

I also think their decision to accept air support from NATO, and consequently, my support for that decision, has been proven correct. According to a recent NY Times study spotlighted on Democracy Now, NATO killed between 40 and 70 civilians in its Libyan campaign. Those sources tried to make the most of that, describing the deaths of some of those in passionate detail, but I think that is remarkable. The number could be double that and my conclusions would still be the same. 30,000 Libyans died in that war. The vast majority were killed by Qaddafi's forces, many while in his custody. Certainly, NATO killed thousands of Qaddafi soldiers, but those soldiers were killing other Libyans, mostly civilians, so by doing that they almost certainly saved many Libyan lives and shortened the war.

So there were no massive civilian causalities from NATO bombs as the anti-interventionists predicted, and there were no NATO boots on the ground, as the anti-interventionists predicted.

I know, I know. There may have been spooks. There was a CIA station there even before Feb17, I'm sure they never left. Special forces? A lot of speculation but very short on proof. Even Qaddafi claimed to have captured 17 foreign special forces in Sirte, video to follow. It never showed up. Besides that's not what the anti-interventions were talking about in the beginning. That just became their fall back position because the Marines never made it back to the shores of Tripoli.

Libya just had $87 billion unfrozen by the EU and oil production is already coming back on line, so I think their financial problems will quickly be resolved. Not many countries can say that these days.

Another thing that is becoming clear now is just how little real support Qaddafi had. While there was that one sneak attack against an oil terminal while Qaddafi was still alive, there has been nothing since. The guerilla war by Qaddafi supporters against the revolution has simply failed to materialize, and while wavers of the green flag still have had some freedom to demonstrate openly, as this video illustrates, there just haven't been very many of them.

And I was personally very please to find that my mention of Racism in Libya at the end of my recent diary on Occupy Nigeria led to a new round that that article being retweeted among Libyans.  

So I think things are shaping up nicely in Libya. I don't even worry about the Islamic Brotherhood or other Islamic forces coming to power, not in Libya or anywhere else in MENA. That is part of democracy and maybe that is something they have to go through so that they can grow out of it. How long will we have to suffer the Republicans?

Still there is all the minutia of building a new revolutionary Libya, and for more on that, I turn the floor over to Ali Ahmida.

Today my worlds come together. At 10:30am I go back to Africa. There is an Occupy Nigeria protest in Hollywood organized by Nigerians of Southern California. Then at 1:00pm there is a Southern California Occupy Meet Up in Long Beach. It'll be a busy day.                    

Current Political Situation in Libya: An Interview with Ali Ahmida

Libya is back in the news with increasing tensions among various militia groups and political factions struggling for power, sometimes through street battles.

Three months have passed since the regime of Muammar Qaddafi was dislodged in Libya. So what is happening in Libya today? What forces are in play, and what has become of the revolutionary militias? And what about the issue of outside influence in today's Libya, given the crucial role played by NATO forces as well as governments such as Qatar in bringing an end to Qaddafi's autocracy.

Khalil Bendib spoke with University of New England political science professor Ali Ahmida, who just returned from Libya.


Current Political Situation in Libya: An Interview with Ali Ahmida by Jadaliyya


For more background on the Libyan Revolution and links to lots of information see my other writings at the DailyKos and WikiLeaks Central:
Why is Chris Hedges calling for "boots on the ground" in Libya?
The Worm Has Turned: Good Film on Libyan Revolution from PressTV
Why NATO's mission in Libya isn't over yet
Libya's Freedom Fighters: How They Won
Racism in Libya
Abdul Rahman Gave his Eyes to See the End of Qaddafi
BREAKING: Secret files reveal Dennis Kucinich talks with Qaddafi Regime
BREAKING: Libyan TNC won't extradite Lockerbie bomber
Who really beat Qaddafi?
#Feb17: @NATO Please help MEDEVAC wounded from #Libya
What should those that opposed NATO's intervention in Libya demand now?
BREAKING: Qaddafi's Tripoli Compound Falls!
Does PDA Support Qaddafi?
BREAKING: Operation Mermaid Dawn, the Battle to Liberate Tripoli is Joined
Helter Skelter: Qaddafi's African Adventure
Qaddafi's Long Arm
SCOOP: My Lai or Qaddafi Lie? More on the 85 Civilians presumed killed by NATO
Did NATO kill 85 Libyan Villagers As Qaddafi Regime Contends?
CCDS Statement on Libya - a Critique
The Assassination of General Abdul Fattah Younis
NATO over Tripoli - Air Strikes in the Age of Twitter
How Many Libyans has NATO Killed?
Qaddafi Terror Files Start to Trickle Out!
Have Libyan Rebels Committed Human Rights Abuses?
Tripoli Green Square Reality Check
Behind the Green Curtain: Libya Today
Gilbert Achcar on the Libyan situation and the Left
NATO slammed for Libya civilian deaths NOT!
2011-07-01 Qaddafi's Million Man March
NATO's Game Plan in Libya
February 21st - Tripoli's Long Night
Did Qaddafi Bomb Peaceful Protesters?
Tripoli Burn Notice
Libyans, Palestinians & Israelis
'Brother' Qaddafi Indicted plus Libya & Syria: Dueling Rally Photofinishs
An Open Letter to ANSWER
ANSWER answers me
2011-06-22 No Libyans allowed at ANSWER Libya Forum
Are they throwing babies out of incubators yet?
Continuing Discussion with a Gaddafi Supporter
Boston Globe oped supports Gaddafi with fraudulent journalism
2011-04-13 Doha summit supports Libyan rebels
Current Events in Libya
Amonpour Plays Softball with Gaddafi
Arming Gaddfi
North African Revolution Continues
Is Libya Next? Anonymous Debates New Operation
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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (7+ / 0-)

    Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

    by Clay Claiborne on Fri Jan 13, 2012 at 11:35:06 PM PST

  •  I figured nobody would follow up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko

    Once the war was over and the U.S. role was over as well, particularly as it ended successfully.  I imagine some people are actually quite disappointed this all turned out so well in the end.  Good on you for keeping up with this and writing this diary.

    •  Please don't go there. (0+ / 0-)

      I supported the U.S./NATO intervention on behalf of the Libyan revolutionaries. I believe this action is one of the very, very few military actions we've taken in the last half century that can be justified on humanitarian grounds.

      That having been said, I will also say that the opposition to the Libya campaign here has been principled and well argued. To suggest that opponents of the intervention are "disappointed" by its apparent success is unsubstantiated and petty.

      •  principled and well argued? (0+ / 0-)

        By some, sure.  By others, not so much.  Plenty of people insisted our policy was being driven by oil companies and evil imperialist something-or-others, that the rebels were all thugs, al Qaeda was going to take over the new Libyan government, etc.  One story was about how our opposition to Qadaffi was because the banks opposed his plan for a common African currency.  So no, not well argued in many, probably most cases.  And yes, I'm sure there will be some who argued that way who will be disappointed to find out they were quite wrong, if things do in fact come out well in the end.

        Anyway, point was that this story should continued to be covered to see how it all turns out.  Clay's doing us a service.

      •  LOL (0+ / 0-)
        I believe this action is one of the very, very few military actions we've taken in the last half century that can be justified on humanitarian grounds.

        That was as humanitarian as the Bush invasion of Iraq.  

        •  Blue Wind makes my point for me. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rja

          He is still pouting the very popular anti-interventionist line that Libya was just another Iraq.

          Do you call that principled? Because it certainly isn't well argued.

          The fact is that, by the outcome, the NATO bombing can clearly be justified on humanitarian grounds even if NATO's real motivation was to get the oil flowing again ASAP.

          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

          by Clay Claiborne on Sat Jan 14, 2012 at 07:43:34 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I believe that Libya (0+ / 0-)

            was another Iraq.  And I believe that Syria and Iran are next.   It is the neoconservative plan in practice.   If it was real humanitarian intervention, regimes that killed their own people or helped other regimes to suppress the uprisings of their people (i.e. UAE, Qatar and the Saudis) would not be part of the coalition.   To me that was definitive proof that the intervention had absolutely nothing to do with humanitarian reasons.  You dont invite a group of dictators who kill their people to a humanitarian mission.  

      •  Principled and well argued? (0+ / 0-)

        I agree, this description applies to some but certainly not all. Go back and read some of the things ANSWER said about me. It was not too many years ago I wrote an MLK Jr. flyer for them.

        I lost "friends" on the left that cut off communications because of this. The so-called Marxist Kasama Project, which use to solicite my writings won't even publish my comments or respond to emails.

        Others have called me all kinds of names, traitor, imperialist lacky, agent, - you know the drill. How many times was I told "Clay, I can't believe you've gone over to the enemy.", "How much are you being paid?"

        Some are still arguing the most absurd positions, even waiting for Siaf to lead a comeback.

        So no, I won't give all those people a pass and say that their abandonment of the Libya people in the hour of their greatest need for support, or their ad homien attacks on me for giving that support was principled and well argued.

        Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

        by Clay Claiborne on Sat Jan 14, 2012 at 07:33:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  What happened to (0+ / 0-)

    the killers of Ghadaffi?  Were they arrested to be prosecuted?  I thought they NTC had insisted that they will.   I never read any follow-up on that.  

  •  Thanks for keeping us up to date (0+ / 0-)

    I'm probably going to post a diary about the effects of Gaddafi's genocidal wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone in the next few days and would love to hear what you have to say about it.

    Clearly some people have trouble wrapping their mind around the idea that Gaddafi was a monster, his own people knew that and the entire region is ecstatic that he is gone.

    I remember reading an editorial in the online version of a Nigerian newspaper and unfortunately I didn't save the link, but the gist was that the overwhelming majority of West African political leaders were hoping that the rebels would capture Gaddafi, hack off his head and parade it around Tripoli on a pike because of the incredibly immense suffering his egomania imposed on West African civilians.

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