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It Is Done!

The National Transitional Council will officially hand over power to the General National Congress at 2:00pm pst in the first peaceful transfer of government in Libya's history.


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AFP is reporting:

Libya’s elected congress to take power Wednesday
Government — August 6, 2012 at 03:24

TRIPOLI — Libya’s interim authorities said they will hand over power to a newly elected congress on Wednesday, less than a year after its fighters overthrew the regime of Moamer Kadhafi.

“We affirm that August 8, 2012 will be the day that power will be transferred peacefully,” Saleh Darhoub, spokesman of the outgoing National Transitional Council, told journalists in Tripoli on Monday.

Libyans cast ballots on July 7 in the country’s first free elections following a 2011 popular uprising that escalated into a civil war and overthrew the regime of now slain dictator Kadhafi.

They elected a 200-member legislative assembly comprising party and independent representatives, which will replace the NTC and lead the country until fresh elections can be held on the basis of a new constitution. More...

This might be a good time to look back on some of the "left" predictions as to what would happen to Libya if the "NATO-backed rebels" won and to consider the effects of intervention in light of the success the non-interventionists have had with the implementation of their policies in Syria.

Below the fold is some of what I found Googling around yesterday.

The US Sixth Fleet has begun repositioning its ships in the Mediterranean, triggering speculation of a NATO invasion of Libya.

On Wednesday two US military ships heading towards the Libyan coast entered the Suez Canal.

It comes as Libya's long-time leader Colonel Gaddafi remains besieged in the capital Tripoli, with opposition forces nearby.

Russia Today | 3 March 2011
The worst thing that could happen to the people of Libya is U.S. intervention.

The worst thing that could happen to the revolutionary upsurge shaking the Arab world is U.S. intervention in Libya.
Clearly these CIA-financed forces and old monarchists are politically and socially different from the disenfranchised youth and workers who have marched by the millions against U.S.-backed dictators in Egypt and Tunisia and are today demonstrating in Bahrain, Yemen and Oman.
It is vital for the U.S. political and class-conscious movement to resist the enormous pressure of a U.S.-orchestrated campaign for military intervention in Libya. A new imperialist adventure must be challenged. Solidarity with the peoples’ movements! U.S. hands off!

Sara Flounders | 2 March 2011
The goal of anti-war activists right now seems pretty clear to me--we should be doing everything we can to expose the U.S./NATO war for what it is and building as much support as we can to stop it. There is nothing "humanitarian" about this war--there has never been, nor will there ever be a humanitarian intervention by the U.S., NATO or the UN in their current forms. A short look at history confirms this: Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yugoslavia and so on.

This article by Clay does not help build a stronger movement against the war on Libya.
ANSWER will continue to speak out and organize against the war on Libya. People who want to oppose the war can do so with us. We don't have to agree on everything as long as we oppose imperialist intervention and support the right of oppressed nations and people's to self determination. On July 9, ANSWER and others are organizing a march and rally in Washington, D.C. in front of the White House to demand an immediate end to the war on Libya.

Ian Thompson, ANSWER Coalition, Los Angeles | 22 June 2011
Once the Libyans realize what the Iraqis and Afghans have bitterly discovered—that we have no interest in democracy, that our primary goal is appropriating their natural resources as cheaply as possible and that we will sacrifice large numbers of people to maintain our divine right to the world’s diminishing supply of fossil fuel—they will hate us the way we deserve to be hated.
History is replete with conquering forces being cheered when they arrive, whether during the Nazi occupation of the Ukraine in World War II, the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon or our own arrival in Baghdad, and then rapidly mutating from liberator to despised enemy. And once our seizure of Libyan oil becomes clear it will only ramp up the jihadist hatred for America that has spread like wildfire across the Middle East.
The force used by the occupier to displace the old regime always makes sure the new regime is supine and complaint. The National Transitional Council, made up of former Gadhafi loyalists, Islamists and tribal leaders, many of whom detest each other, will be the West’s vehicle for the reconfiguration of Libya. Libya will return to being the colony it was before Gadhafi and the other young officers in 1969 ousted King Idris.
The National Transitional Council has announced that it opposes the presence in Libya of U.N. military observers and police, despite widespread atrocities committed by Gadhafi loyalists. The observers and police have been offered to help quell the chaos, train new security forces and provide independent verification of what is happening inside Libya. But just as Gadhafi preferred to do dirty work in secret, so will the new regime.
Chris Hedges | 5 September 2011
there are no signs that the rebels, backed by the United States, NATO and the European Union, have any substantial support in western Libya.
Cynthia McKinney | 5 June 2011
The grossly distorted news reports paint a picture of a besieged regime about to collapse at any second. Further, the spiritual leader of the Libyan revolution, Muammar Qaddafi, is represented as a hated and unpopular leader. I want to take this time to disabuse all that read my report.
Cynthia McKinney | 20 June 2011
We’ve seen this movie before in Iraq. It means the usual ‘collateral damage’ of widespread civilian death and destruction—all done in the name of preventing civilian deaths.
We in the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism join with many others around the world to oppose this aggression and call for its immediate and unconditional cessation. Cease Fire!

We urge that Libyans resolve their differences without resort to arms. We support international diplomatic efforts aimed at assisting Libya to resolve their conflict politically – a path that was ignored in the lead up to the intervention by the U.S. and others.

At bottom – ‘kinetic military activity’ – the new Pentagon euphemism for imperialist war is simply a grab for power and oil in a third world country temporarily weakened by an internal crisis. Libya has huge oil reserves that are state owned—including much oil that is easily accessible.

CCDS Statement on Libya | March 25 2011
NATO has proven it has the capacity to kill thousands of Libyan soldiers from the skies, but it cannot “convey honor and legitimacy” to the rebels under its killer wings. “They are little more than extras for imperial theater, a mob that traveled under the protective umbrella of American full spectrum dominance of the air.
A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford
Washington-led NATO turned Libya into a hellish inferno - step one before occupying and exploiting its resources and people. Months ago its wealth was stolen. Ahead will be its future if Libyans don't struggle and win their freedom.
Stephen Lendman | 28 August 2011
What has developed in Libya is a conundrum for NATO. They may have imagined that with such vicious ongoing bombing raids, Qaddafi’s forces would have crumbled. Instead, they have witnessed the opposite. In the face of this all-out aggression, now into its fifth month with over 10,000 bombing raids, the Libyan patriotic and revolutionary armed forces and the vast majority of Libyans have remained steadfast and loyal, defending their revolution and its leader.
Every day the rebels reveal themselves to be mere surrogates of an imperialist plot to overthrow the Libyan revolution.
NATO picked on a country that has experienced a profound political and social revolution for the past 40-plus years. The majority of Libyans only know life in the Jamahiriya and have lived in its dignity, comfort and calm all their lives, causing many of them to perhaps become complacent, taking much of what they had for granted. However, there is no doubt that their revolutionary spirit has been reignited by NATO’s bombs and they are standing behind the Al Fateh revolution. As one female student from Al Fateh University put it, “Libya is our mother and Qaddafi is our father.”
Gerald A. Perreira | 25 June 2011
Political analyst Webster Tarpley answered that question Monday, June 6, on Press TV, stating that the “goal of all this all along has been to smash Libya into various parts to drive Qaddafi out of power and to seize control of the oil to re-impose the yoke of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in still more severe form than we ever had it.”

And I think right now desperation is growing, especially in London and Paris, that old Suez 1956 combination of unreconstructed imperialists,” said Tarpley.

“They are desperate now because their methods so far are not working. They tried high level bombing, combined with this rebel rabble underground with a lot of al-Qaeda fighters included in it and that’s not working.”
Webster Tarpley | 6 June 2011
The cheerleaders for this "democracy movement" went from right-wing Republicans to some liberal Democrats. It is a repeat of the political alignment that led to the first Iraq war in 1991 and the Yugoslav war in 1999. In this case too, they were joined by some in the U.S. anti-war movement, including some self-described "socialists," desiring to show their "democratic" credentials and wanting to accommodate to liberal mainstream public opinion. By their cheerleading for a rebellion whose leaders demanded foreign intervention, and focusing all their fire on the Libyan government, they only contributed to confusion in the weeks leading up to the onslaught against Libya. They are embarrassed about their position now that the imperial carnage is clear for all to see.
Brian Becker,  National Coordinator, ANSWER Coalition | 21 March 2011
Inside Libya itself, thousands of citizens have resisted the rebel forces backed by the U.S. and other former colonial powers such as France, Britain and Italy, which had colonized Libya for many decades.

Thousands of Libyans have flocked to government buildings to act as human shields against the bombs being dropped by the Western military forces. Gadhafi on March 21 called for a civilian march on the city of Benghazi, where the rebels remain under the protection of bombs being dropped by the U.S., France and Britain.
On April 9 there will be national anti-war demonstrations in New York and San Francisco whose demands include a halt to U.S. and European aggression towards Libya.

Workers World Party | 24 March 2011

These are my articles on the Libyan Revolution:
The Elections and Libya's Violent Militias
#Libya at the crossroads: The ballot or the bullet
Is Libya better off than it was?
Libyan Elections to be held July 7th
Qaddafi forces Strike Back in Libya
Libya & Syria - two videos - no comment
BREAKING: Libyan High Court strikes down anti-free speech law
Where should Libya's Saif Qaddafi be tried?
MSM plays Hankey Panky with Libya
Qaddafi lies live on after him
Another "Houla style" massacre in Syria
Libya's Qaddafi helped US & Israel against Iran in Olympic Games
Why is Russia demanding NATO boots on the ground in Libya?
#LyElect Libyans register to vote 1st time in 60 years
Libya's Revolution: How We Won - The Internationale in the 21st Century
Good News from Libya
On Libya & Glenn Greenwald: Are the anti-interventionists becoming counter-revolutionaries?
UN: NATO killed 60 civilians in Libya
Libya in the news today
Amnesty International on Libya again
The Current Situation in Libya
Democracy Now & Amy Goodman gets it wrong again.
Why is Chris Hedges calling for "boots on the ground" in Libya?
The Worm Has Turned: Good Film on Libyan Revolution from PressTV
Why NATO's mission in Libya isn't over yet
Libya's Freedom Fighters: How They Won
Racism in Libya
Abdul Rahman Gave his Eyes to See the End of Qaddafi
BREAKING: Secret files reveal Dennis Kucinich talks with Qaddafi Regime
BREAKING: Libyan TNC won't extradite Lockerbie bomber
Who really beat Qaddafi?
#Feb17: @NATO Please help MEDEVAC wounded from #Libya
What should those that opposed NATO's intervention in Libya demand now?
BREAKING: Qaddafi's Tripoli Compound Falls!
Does PDA Support Qaddafi?
BREAKING: Operation Mermaid Dawn, the Battle to Liberate Tripoli is Joined
Helter Skelter: Qaddafi's African Adventure
Qaddafi's Long Arm
SCOOP: My Lai or Qaddafi Lie? More on the 85 Civilians presumed killed by NATO
Did NATO kill 85 Libyan Villagers As Qaddafi Regime Contends?
CCDS Statement on Libya - a Critique
The Assassination of General Abdul Fattah Younis
NATO over Tripoli - Air Strikes in the Age of Twitter
How Many Libyans has NATO Killed?
Qaddafi Terror Files Start to Trickle Out!
Have Libyan Rebels Committed Human Rights Abuses?
Tripoli Green Square Reality Check
Behind the Green Curtain: Libya Today
Gilbert Achcar on the Libyan situation and the Left
NATO slammed for Libya civilian deaths NOT!
2011-07-01 Qaddafi's Million Man March
NATO's Game Plan in Libya
February 21st - Tripoli's Long Night
Did Qaddafi Bomb Peaceful Protesters?
Tripoli Burn Notice
Libyans, Palestinians & Israelis
'Brother' Qaddafi Indicted plus Libya & Syria: Dueling Rally Photofinishs
An Open Letter to ANSWER
ANSWER answers me
2011-06-22 No Libyans allowed at ANSWER Libya Forum
Are they throwing babies out of incubators yet?
Continuing Discussion with a Gaddafi Supporter
Boston Globe oped supports Gaddafi with fraudulent journalism
2011-04-13 Doha summit supports Libyan rebels
Current Events in Libya
Amonpour Plays Softball with Gaddafi
Arming Gaddfi
North African Revolution Continues
Is Libya Next? Anonymous Debates New Operation

Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 8:38 AM PT:

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (6+ / 0-)

    Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

    by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 10:25:04 AM PDT

  •  Clearly, the question of intervention... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lawrence, ferg, joe from Lowell, Woody

    is complicated.

    Nevertheless, Libya is a foreign policy victory for the President.

    Syria? I don't know. I have friends in Aleppo and I am very worried. What would / should a NATO intervention look like?

    "Who is John Galt?" A two dimensional character in a third rate novel.

    by Inventor on Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 10:43:56 AM PDT

    •  Complicated indeed, for those on the left. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clay Claiborne, mircead, killjoy

      R2P and the overt backing of popular, democratic uprisings in other countries both pose some difficult questions for people of a liberal or leftist viewpoint.  They require us to balance and negotiate conflicts between values that we hold very dear.

      So difficult is this problem, apparently, that a whole slew of liberals and leftists just defined it out of existence, and chose instead to see events, against all available evidence, in terms of a much simpler, more familiar narrative that doesn't require any real thought at all.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 12:11:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Foreign intervention is a hit or miss (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    it does not always work (specifically foreign-military intervention). Take the example of Kosovo. Noam Chomsky writes:

    “At least this much seems clear. NATO chose to reject diplomatic options that were not exhausted, and to launch a military campaign that had terrible consequences for Kosovar Albanians, as anticipated. Other consequences are of little concern in the West, including the devastation of the civilian economy of Serbia by military operations that severely violate the laws of war. Though the matter was brought to the War Crimes Tribunal long ago, it is hard to imagine that it will be seriously addressed. For similar reasons, there is little likelihood that the Tribunal will pay attention to its 150-page “Indictment Operation Storm: A Prima Facie Case,” reviewing the war crimes committed by Croatian forces that drove some 200,000 Serbs from Krajina in August 1995 with crucial U.S. involvement that elicited “almost total lack of interest in the U.S. press and in the U.S. Congress,” New York Times Balkans correspondent David Binder observes.”
    Military intervention has the potential for failure and to cause more harm than good.
    •  Libya was a very specfic except to the rule that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sagesource, joe from Lowell, Woody

      Western military intervention is a disaster. IMHO.

      First, and most importantly, the Libyans cut a deal for air support only, no boots on the ground, and they made it stick.

      With no troops in Libya, NATO has not been able to control the post war narrative as they would have liked. If they had gotten in NATO ground troops,  or even UN "peace keepers" we would have been looking at a very difference situation.

      Second, I think certain contradictions in NATO came to the fore. Obama hung back, so FR & UK took the lead, they were out to prove they could do it without US. For this and because everybody was talking about civilian causalities, NATO was on its best behavior and really did go to unusual (for them) lengths to avoid civilian casualties (less than a hundred by most accounts) Which shows what they can do with smart weapons and careful planning when they actually give a fuck.

      Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

      by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 11:28:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Details matter. Outcomes are not random. (3+ / 0-)

      Whether an intervention will do more harm than good, or vice-versa, is not purely a roll of the dice.

      The positive outcome of the Libya operation, and the difference between it and Iraq or Vietnam, was not dumb luck.  We need to look very carefully at what happened and learn lessons from it, to understand when to intervene, and just as importantly, how.

      One such lesson: the Europeans imposed some very strict rules of engagement on the pilots, much stricter than Americans flying combat sorties.  When the civilians of a city (Misrata) that is being bombed from the air by NATO are complaining that they aren't dropping enough bombs, that's a pretty good indication that it's not a United States Air Force general running things.  In the long run, though, it's clear that the NATO command was right to be exceptionally cautious.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 12:20:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Canadian fighters returned with their (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe from Lowell

        payloads more than half the time because they were not sure. They ended up getting secondary, less risky targets to chose if the first was a no-go.

        •  ...and that is exactly what John McCain... (0+ / 0-)

          was complaining about when he said that we weren't using "the full extend of American air power," and called for - I can't even believe he said this - the use of AC-130 gunships and Apache helicopters.

          Those things fire 105 mm unguided artillery rounds and 1000 round-per-second automatic fire explosive 20mm shells, and he was urging their use to strike Gadhaffi artillery and rocket launchers in urban areas.  That man is nuts.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 07:40:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If the Americans were going after the rebels (0+ / 0-)

            here's what it would look like. Very few were calling what happened in Iraq/Afghanistan a massacre.

            Here they are in action. Listen to the "sound of freedom"....

            •  Here's what I called it: (0+ / 0-)


              I started Linux Users Los Angeles [Lula] eight years ago when Linux was a baby and needed all the friends it could get. I saw in Linux and it's “free as in 'beer', and free as in 'speech' philosophy a tool with vast potential for the liberation of humanity.

              I have been the president of LULA for all of those years and have helped it grow and strive. My one regret is that more and more it has become an insular collection of geeks that can get along just fine without me.

              I need someone to chair the next Lula meeting. I have made requests to a number of leading members but so far no one has said they can do it.

              I won’t be there because I will be showing my new video 'Oops: A Tragedy Of Errors  - News Clips From The Iraq War' to the LA Answer Coalition. I personally feel this is more important because most likely while the two groups are having their simultaneous meetings the United States of America will be committing mass murder in Fallouja.

              The U.S. Marines are doing it now. And Linux is their little helper. Linux was embedded with the troops before the media ever knew what the word meant.  There is no cease-fire. We keep helicopters, drones and aircraft over Fallouja 24/7. U.S. Marine snipers shoot anything that moves. Hospitals are bombed, ambulances are shot up. Children are shot in the back. Men who try to leave Fallouja are turned back

              Cease-Fire American Style

              “But the cease-fire allows the Marines to carry out defensive operations within the city, which they define as, among other things, allowing fire on insurgents who display weapons, break the curfew or move their forces toward U.S. troops.” LA Times, 4/17/04 p. A6.

              So these are the “cease-fire” rules of engagement. Let’s even allow that as we are bringing them democracy, all Iraqi’s lose any right to bear arms on pain summary execution. And it’s a given that even though we don’t yet control Fallouja, we intend to enforce a curfew by shooting on sight. But please tell me Mr. United States Marine how can you tell whether it’s an unarmed insurgent or an innocent civilian that is breaking the curfew? And since you have the city completely encircled, how can the citizens of Fallouja move at all without moving towards U.S. troops? I guess they can hop up and down and call it 'Freedom'.

              Read the paper. Read between the lines.

              “Sniping experts – there are several here with the Marines – say there may not have been such a “target-rich” battlefield since the World War II battle for Stalingrad.” LA Times again.  So if from behind the riflescope Fallouja looks like Stalingrad while the Nazi’s lay siege to it, who does that make the U.S. Marine look like that uses the sniper rifle?

              21 year old Marine says of Fallouja “It’s a sniper’s dream” LA. Times again.

              Despicable, just despicable!

              “The US Marines have undertaken to subdue Fallujah, west of Baghdad, apparently without regard for civilian casualties.”  The Independent, 4/15/04

              Cease-fire American style just means they aren’t using the artillery; they aren’t dropping cluster bombs and using Gatling guns from AC-130 gunships. Yet.

              Hachim Hassani, an Internet entrepreneur from Culver City and member of the Iraqi Governing Council has been in Fallouja all week trying to negotiate a peace. [I wonder if he ever came to a Lula meeting.]  He’s afraid the Americans are just letting him hold the meetings so they can say they tried everything before the slaughter. LA Times, 4/15/04, A9. His fears are justified.

              The truth is that Bush and his Crew were as wrong about the Iraqi people Greeting Us as Liberators as they were about Weapons of Mass Destruction. But that doesn’t mean we can just pick up and leave from where we aren’t wanted.

              There’s no WMD and there’s no more Saddam Hussein but the whole of Iraq is in revolt against the occupation. Don’t believe the story that it is only 6,000 or so of Sadr's Mahdi Army and “a couple thousand”  “terrorist” “foreign fighters” and “Baathist Loyalist” in Fallouja that somehow have our well armed force of over 130,000 so over extended that leaves are cancelled. Don’t believe the lies! See what the new game plan is.

              If they Don’t Want Us To Liberate them, We Can Rule Through Terror

              Even if we can’t get their telephone system back up and running a year after we bombed it into oblivion, we can rule Iraq through fear and terror. So to get the situation under control before the U.S. presidential elections somebody has to be made an example of. And that somebody is Fallouja, a city of 300,000 people.

              The CentCom media blitz about the four contractors killed in Fallouja is just the cover story to prepare the American public to accept the mass murder they have decided is necessary. They say they just want the terrorist who killed and mutilated the bodies of the four armed civilian contractors, i.e. mercenary soldiers. This is a damn lie.

              The Iraqi's who killed and those that mutilated are two separate groups. The four mercenaries were killed by resistance fighters and left on the field. Others mutilated the bodies. Not that anything can justify such behavior, but it could be more easily understood had the press reported on the massacre of 15 Iraqis by the new sheriff in town, the U.S. Marines, on that very same street the week before.

              The Marines say they just want a handful of 'bad guys' and for this so far they have killed over 600 including at least 46 children under 5. But wait. The real slaughter has not yet begun.

              Today the 'cease-fire' still holds but we Americans are an impatient lot. The Marines warn that this situation can't go on much longer. Soon negotiations will break down and the Marines will be 'forced' to go in, guns a blazing.  And they will do it with your tax dollars and your technology and your acquiescence. You will meet and discuss “Setting up a compile cluster with distcc” at 7:00PM Tuesday.  It will be morning in Fallouja. They’ll be picking up their dead again.

              A lot of people have been making comparisons between Iraq and Vietnam as of late. According to Robert F. McNamara, who as Secretary of Defense from 1960 to 1967 was in a good position to know, 3,400,000 people died in the Vietnam War.  So this is the question the comparison poses for me:

              How many this time? How many this time?

              I once had high hopes for Linux. I felt sure it could make a real contribution to the success of humanity, now more and more I have my doubts. I have a real and growing fear that if the Mr. Smith’s of Linux have their way, in the future they will look back and say “Wasn’t it nice that so many smart people worked to hard for free to forge their own chains.”

              I feel that Lula no longer reflects the vision I have had for it and has in fact belittled itself as an organization for change and progress. I cannot attend Tuesday night's meeting, in fact I would be a shamed to in view of what our country is doing in Iraq. Therefore I am resigning as the president of Linux Users Los Angeles effective 7:00PM April 20, 2004.

              Rights and the Mailing List

              Rights. You have rights. But you have responsibilities too. And you have no right to sit on your ass while your country commits atrocities.

              Today we remember the Holocaust. The real shame of the Germans was that they allowed a bad leader to hijack the very considerable resources of their country to do some really horrible things while they when on with user group meetings and such as usual.

              Clay Claiborne
              April 19, 2004

              Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

              by Clay Claiborne on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 11:39:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  So right, Clay. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clay Claiborne, Cynical Copper

    You must have gotten pretty sick of hearing the the facile comparisons to Vietnam.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:13 PM PDT

  •  Libya has yet to recover from the war (4+ / 0-)

    There are still thousands being held in various prisons as well as tens of thousands of internally displaced persons. 80% of Libyans are on government payrolls. Damages from the war are yet to be repaired. Many oil contracts have been re-negotiated downward. The IMF has been advising the government to decrease wages and jobs in the public sector as well as to privatize health, schools and other government services. Banks have been bought by Qatar and they are pushing for a less cash based society.

    There has been a recent upsurge in violence

    An Upsurge of Violence Poses a Challenge to Libya’s Fledgling Democracy

    The new government may be a lot more Islamic than most westerners believe it too be.

    The Libyan people are still waiting for the promises of their revolution. It's too early to tell.

    •  You worked hard to deprive Libyans of this moment, (4+ / 0-)

      Oh, Yes you did!

      Sat May 14, 2011 at 08:27:35 AM PDT

      NATO will eventually install bases in Libya to take control of North Africa after Gaddafi is gone. It will done under AFRICOM using the excuse of "regional stability". Libya is well positioned to enable access and control to the resource rich sub-Sahara in which China has rapidly become the largest player in the last decade.
      Then you quoted globalresearch:
      experts are warning that a ‘Balkanisation’ of Libya is possible if the U.S. and NATO opt to exploit loopholes in U.N. Resolution 1973 by arming the opposition.
      The U.S. badly wanted a base in Africa and the Libyan intervention has "now provided the opening", Escobar told IPS. "AFRICOM’s participation is the Pentagon’s strategy to counter Chinese investments in Africa."
      Privatisation is happening under the guise of a foreign peacekeeping mission, which is why the EU wants to send soldiers."
      Mon Apr 25, 2011 at 03:45:25 PM PDT
      Keep in mind the Gaddafi's loyalists are also Libyan people. We don't know what their motives for fighting are but they must be very strong to withstand the massive NATO onslaught. How many thousand have now been killed by the NATO bombings? Nobody keeps a count of this.

      We also have no idea how many or in what proportion of the total population they comprise. If this is a large enough number, it will not bode well for the future of Libya.

      The formation of a democratic government is also going to be very problematic, especially if the western powers are involved.

      The changing of the economy from a socialistic to a capitalistic one is also going to cause considerable strife. I cannot see the US accepting another country like Venezuela or Cuba.

      How is this going to affect the Libyan people several years down the road? The nationalized oil companies will be the first to be privatized. Will NATO take money from Libya's Sovereign Fund to pay the cost of this intervention?

      Fri Apr 22, 2011 at 10:19:22 AM PDT
      The 40 to 50 interventions by the US in the past are also verifiable history. Libya fits in perfectly - same shit, different pile.

      BTW, I think Gaddafi is a brutal dictator just like the rest of the bastards in the MENA region - some much worse. Unfortunately for him, he was not America's bastard.

      True economic democracy will never be won by dropping bombs. There is a very good chance the uprising and subsequent response from the western powers will not end well for the good people of Libya. The only solution is dialogue however difficult that may be. But I've seen very little effort put towards that end, either from the NATO powers or the Americanized Libyan National Council, to make changes.

      If you know anything about Waco, you will realize you don't back a dangerous animal into a corner with a room full of innocents.

      Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

      by Clay Claiborne on Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 03:18:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I still stand by all those comments (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chuckvw, Shawn Russell

        Time will tell.

        I've already posted several times that Libya is heading the way I described. They are shopping for billions of dollars of Eurofighters from the UK and France as well as helicopters and transport planes from the US. They are running joint training exercises with the British Navy and are looking to upgrade their fleet.

        The IMF has now done several studies of Libya's economy. You know what they do to a country.  The oil companies are now making from 10% to 30% more money on the oil deals. The Libyan bank is being taken over by the World Bank and being taken off the gold standard. The oil is back on the Petrodollar. Libya's government has had talks with Egypt about allowing 1 million Egyptians to enter the country w/o visa's to do "migrant worker" jobs the Libyan's won't do. This is to replace the Black Africans who used to do this labor.

        The militias are still in charge and have now elected people to look after their individual interests. Watch what happens now as they vie for power within the government to draw up the new constitution.

        Most Americans could care less about the Libyan people now. Just as they don't give a damn about the Iraqi people.

        Give Libya another year or so.

      •  Let me add that I have no intention of being (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BigAlinWashSt, chuckvw, Shawn Russell

        some sort of cheer-leader for the violent revolution. 30,000 to 50,000 people lost their lives with probably just as many maimed and wounded. The world has to find another path rather than resorting to violence. No attempt was made by either the rebels or NATO to resolve this crisis other than by armed force.

      •  Wow, it's like having our own Bill Kristol. (0+ / 0-)

        My favorite is this one:

        The U.S. badly wanted a base in Africa and the Libyan intervention has "now provided the opening", Escobar told IPS.
        I don't know who this Pepe Escobar person is, but he seems to function as a sort of south-pointing compass.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:09:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Pepe Escobar knows more about the ME and Asia (0+ / 0-)

          than any other reporter. He reports for Asian Times

          Pepe Escobar, born in Brazil, is the roving correspondent for Hong Kong/Thailand-based Asia Times and analyst for Toronto/Washington-based The Real News.

          Since the mid-1980s, he has lived and worked as a foreign correspondent in London, Paris, Milan, Los Angeles and Singapore/Bangkok. Since 9/11 he has extensively covered Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia, China, Iran, Iraq and the wider Middle East. He is the author of Globalistan: How the Globalized World is Dissolving into Liquid War [Nimble Books, 2007]; Red Zone Blues: a Snapshot of Baghdad during the Surge [Nimble Books, 2007]; and Obama does Globalistan [Nimble Books, 2009]. He was contributing editor to The Empire and the Crescent; Tutto in Vendita; and Shia Power: Next Target Iran? and is associated with the Paris-based European Academy of Geopolitics. When not on the road, he lives between Sao Paulo, Paris and Bangkok.

          My favorite is this one:
          That's nice. Here's some data to back up Pepe's report. You may want to look at the history between Africom and Gadaffi (and the rest of Africa) before you make any further remarks. Pepe and I were right.

          Africom Forms Military Relationship With Libya

          STUTTGART, Germany, June 15, 2012 – Operation Odyssey Dawn, the U.S. Africa Command-led U.S. mission in Libya last year, imparted important lessons the Defense Department’s newest combatant command is applying as it welcomes a new African partner to the fold while still dealing with some of the residual challenges left by the former regime, the Africom commander said.
          Africom is forming a new military-to-military relationship with the Libyans and is working to strengthen its long-term military-to-military relationship with the Tunisians, Ham said, emphasizing the importance of close partnerships with both nations.
          “And similarly, with the Libyans, we are forming a good relationship,” he continued, noting the standup of an Office of Security Cooperation at the embassy there that can help coordinate security assistance, international military education and training and other security cooperation. “So we’re moving in the right direction, but we need to sustain that effort,” he said.

          •  Nice resume. Why's he always so wrong? (0+ / 0-)

            How are those bases in Libya coming along, Mr. Kristol?

            About as well as the ones in Iraq, I gather.  Oh, that's right - you were wrong about them, too.  "There's no way the MIC will ever let us abandon those bases, harrumph harrumph."

            Where do you think you, and Pepe, went so wrong?

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:41:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Here's more information for you from the very (0+ / 0-)

          pro-interventionist Guardian

          The imperial agenda of the US's 'Africa Command' marches on

, Thursday 14 June 2012

          To reassert its waning influence on the continent in the face of growing Chinese investment, the US established Africom – the "Africa Command" of the US military – in October 2008. Africom co-ordinates all US military activity in Africa and, according to its mission statement, "contributes to increasing security and stability in Africa – allowing African states and regional organizations to promote democracy, to expand development, to provide for their common defense, and to better serve their people".

          However, in more unguarded moments, officials have been more straightforward: Vice Admiral Robert Moeller declared in a conference in 2008 that Africom was about preserving "the free flow of natural resources from Africa to the global market", and two years later, in a piece in Foreign policy magazine, wrote: "Let there be no mistake. Africom's job is to protect American lives and promote American interests." Through this body, western powers are resorting to the use of military power to win back the leverage once attained through financial monopoly.

          The small number of US personnel actually working for Africom – approximately 2,000 – belies both the ambition of the project and the threat it poses to genuine African independence. The idea, once again, is that it will not be US or European forces fighting and dying for western interests in the coming colonial wars against Africa, but Africans. The US soldiers employed by Africom are not there to fight, but to direct; the great hope is that the African Union's forces can be subordinated to a chain of command headed by Africom.

          Libya was a test case. The first war actually commanded by Africom, it proved remarkably successful – a significant regional power was destroyed without the loss of a single US or European soldier. But the significance of this war for Africom went much deeper than that for, in taking out Muammar Gaddafi, Africom had actually eliminated the project's fiercest adversary.
          Fourteen major joint military exercises between Africom and African states are also due to take place this year; and a recent press release from the Africa Partnership Station – Africom's naval training programme – explained that 2013's operations will be moving "away from a training-intensive program" and into the field of "real-world operations".

          This is a far cry from the Africa of 2007, which refused to allow Africom a base on African soil, forcing it to establish its headquarters in Stuttgart, Germany. Gaddafi's Libya had served not only as a bulwark against US military designs on the continent, but also as a crucial bridge between black Africa south of the Sahara and Arab Africa in the north. The racism of the new Nato-installed Libyan regime, currently supporting what amounts to a nationwide pogrom against the country's black population, serves to tear down this bridge and push back the prospects for African unity still further.

    •  Wow, ten whole months later? (0+ / 0-)

      The last German POW in Britain was released in 1949.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:07:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe Libya can become what Bush (0+ / 0-)

    wanted Iraq to be; a shining beacon of democracy and human rights in the region.  One can hope, right?

  •  Libya Assembly elects Pro-Islamist leader (0+ / 0-)

    August 10, 2012 - 18:49 AMT

    PanARMENIAN.Net - Libya's newly empowered top legislative body has elected as its president late a veteran opponent of Moamer Kadhafi's ousted regime who is seen as pro-Islamist, AFP said.

    Mohamed al-Megaryef, a founding member of the Libyan National Salvation Front, which grouped exiled opponents of the now slain dictator, defeated liberal independent Ali Zidane in a run-off by 113 votes to 85 in the 200-member General National Congress.
     Regarded as a moderate Islamist close to the Muslim Brotherhood, Megaryef was elected to the assembly on the ticket of his former exiled grouping, now renamed the National Front Party.

    A member of the Brotherhood's Justice and Construction Party (JCP), who asked not to be identifed, said Megaryef's election was "a victory for the Islamists."

    But an independent assembly member said several members voted for him on geographical and not religious or political grounds.

  •  Will women's rights be reversed in the new Libya? (0+ / 0-)

    In last act of power, Libyan transitional head fires ceremony hostess

    On his last day on the job, as he handed power to Libya’s newly elected assembly, the Chairman of the country’s National Transitional Council fired a female presenter for not wearing an Islamic headscarf, a local newspaper reported.

    Mustafa Abdul Jalil ordered host Sarah Elmesallati to leave the stage late Wednesday evening, halfway through her presentation in the handover ceremony at the country’s National Congress, the Libya Herald reported.

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